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Thread: Leather 880???

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    Default Leather 880???

    Hello everybody, got a question for all you leather heads out there.
    Which Leather helmet is most like a cairns 880 looks wise? I ask because I'm from Chicago and love 880's but would like a traditional leather helmet. A Captain from a neighboring department of mine has a phenix leather and says he absolutely loves it. I've only ever seen one Cairns New Yorker before so I don't really have much to look at besides pics off the internet. Some times I'll come across old timers on the city that have leather helmets that look small like 880's but then I research New Yorkers and g5a's and they look huge. Anyone got any suggestions? As of right now Iím leaning towards getting a phenix, but I also like the cairns 5a baseball cap fit look. Thanks a bunch!

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    Also I was wondering if you can take the ratchet system out of a phenix so it'll sit lower. I watched some videos of the San Francisco guys and i didnt see any of the ratchets, but i thought they were issued phenix helmets?

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    The Phenix Helmets are also available without a ratchet. Instead, you would get it with the nape strap. This is similar to a baseball hat back strap.
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    does it hang down like the ratchet?

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    If you would like a lightweight leather get the Cairns G5A and be done with it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BKDRAFT View Post
    If you would like a lightweight leather get the Cairns G5A and be done with it.
    Agreed or eBay an older 5a.

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    Looks wise I think the TL2 would be the closest to the 880. The N5A and N6A would both sit too high on the head, regardless of the person. Or maybe even an American Heritage.
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    I don't mind fire rolling over my head. I just don't like it rolling UNDER my a**.

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    Regardless of the person? The TL2 sits higher on my head than my N5a

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    The light G5A is prob the lightest leather around too bad it is not NFPA OR OSHA all though it is prob as tough as some of the plastic helmets out there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MassFireGuy View Post
    Regardless of the person? The TL2 sits higher on my head than my N5a
    I was basing that off of just looking at the helmets side by side. The Cairns helmets are bigger as a whole that the Phenix. I cant see how they wouldnt sit higher, being as they are taller helmets.

    I am not going to say you are wrong about your head and your helmet though.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rescue101 View Post
    I don't mind fire rolling over my head. I just don't like it rolling UNDER my a**.

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    the TL2 is not really comparable to the 880. The 880 has a small cap and a more prominent rear brim. The TL has a tall wide cap and a wide rear brim.

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    whats the deal with the nape strap tho? does it sit more like a cairns 5a?

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    Quote Originally Posted by BKDRAFT View Post
    If you would like a lightweight leather get the Cairns G5A and be done with it.
    The G5A will be lighter because it has no impact liner. This is strictly a presentation helmet and not meant for firefighting.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ravage17 View Post
    whats the deal with the nape strap tho? does it sit more like a cairns 5a?
    In my humble opinion, nothing sits better than a pre MSA 5a with the ratchet out. Not to say the TL2 isnt comfy and well balanced, it just sits higher because of the suspension system.

    It all depends how you like to wear your lid. I dont like to adjust a ratchet to fit my head tight and then change it for the mask/hood.

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    well i wont be able to wear it at work anyways, we have to wear our 880's, (which i love the look and comfort of but the whole suspension system even in those makes the helmet feel way high on your head). this helmet will be just for when i go and mess around at the burn towers or go out doing non-department training and the like. Then I'll probably hang it on my wall one day. pretty much I want the best of both worlds- the quality and look of a phenix with the non nfpa liner system of a 5a lol. again thank you guys very much for your input.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jbrescue View Post
    The G5A will be lighter because it has no impact liner. This is strictly a presentation helmet and not meant for firefighting.
    Here we go...

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    I'll Start MassFireGuy.....Wear an original 5A..You can find "like new" ones all over the net. Sure they may be a little dinged up and need some paint, but they work! I know of a near by mid-large size dept. where many of the guys have gone out and bought G5A's and I haven't heard of anyone getting hurt wearing one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ehs7554 View Post
    I'll Start MassFireGuy.....Wear an original 5A..You can find "like new" ones all over the net. Sure they may be a little dinged up and need some paint, but they work! I know of a near by mid-large size dept. where many of the guys have gone out and bought G5A's and I haven't heard of anyone getting hurt wearing one.
    I agree with you. Just be careful someone is going to call the NFPA police on you.

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    lol Yeah guys i've read the other forums on here and dont want to start another arguement. Just lookin for some input. Thanks very much. It'll be a couple months before I graduate medic school and can afford one. But a couple last questions, I read somewhere that the g5a's brim is longer than a New Yorker. Is this true? And the second question is although they come in different sizes you can still adjust them a little right?

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    Quote Originally Posted by MassFireGuy View Post
    Here we go...
    You are right, here we go. Giving a person erroneous information that they can wear a piece of gear that is knowingly not approved for what they intend to use it for, is tantamount to negligence. If it were me, and I was stupid enough to follow your ignorance, I would save these messages. This way when I got hurt for wearing a helmet with no impact liner in it, I could come back and say you said it was OK to do so. I agree that some safety standards are a little much. However, wearing a helmet without an impact liner is plain old stupid. Just because someone else does it, does not make it smart or OK. Just because they are from a "Big City" department, does not make it right either. If you or someone else chooses to wear a OSHA helmet versus a NFPA helmet, that is your choice. At least they offer some protection. You may as well get a nomex knit hat from Dragonfur instead of a helmet if you intend to only wear a presentation helmet for duty. If your Chief knowinly allows this, he is just as ignorant as you are.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbrescue View Post
    You are right, here we go. Giving a person erroneous information that they can wear a piece of gear that is knowingly not approved for what they intend to use it for, is tantamount to negligence. If it were me, and I was stupid enough to follow your ignorance, I would save these messages. This way when I got hurt for wearing a helmet with no impact liner in it, I could come back and say you said it was OK to do so. I agree that some safety standards are a little much. However, wearing a helmet without an impact liner is plain old stupid. Just because someone else does it, does not make it smart or OK. Just because they are from a "Big City" department, does not make it right either. If you or someone else chooses to wear a OSHA helmet versus a NFPA helmet, that is your choice. At least they offer some protection. You may as well get a nomex knit hat from Dragonfur instead of a helmet if you intend to only wear a presentation helmet for duty. If your Chief knowinly allows this, he is just as ignorant as you are.
    Dude calm down. Talk about painting with a broad brush. Just beacuase a big city does it does not make it right is correct; on the same token just because the NFPA mandates somthing doesn't make it right either.

    When your on the rig responding to a medical call, do you keep your turnouts in an outside compartment? If not, they would be considered unsecured, loose equipment which is a violation of NFPA. IF your chief knows about this he must be an ignornat...

    When overhauling a fire, do you use osha approved monitoring equipment and perform periodic air quality monitoring to determine when you can take your SCBA off? Doubtful, therfore you and your chief are clearly ignorant...

    I know for a fact that your department does not comply with NFPA 1710 and 1720 in refference to minimum staffing. That clearly makes you, your coworkers, and your chief blatantly ignorant.

    If you feel so strongly about the NFPA, your going to need to figure out how to get your department to hire a bunch more fireman and purchase several of these to;
    http://www.thefirestore.com/store/pr...fpa_1901_2009/

    Not trying to be an *** but come on man, you took it a bot over the top.
    FTM-PTB

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    Quote Originally Posted by jbrescue View Post
    You are right, here we go. Giving a person erroneous information that they can wear a piece of gear that is knowingly not approved for what they intend to use it for, is tantamount to negligence. If it were me, and I was stupid enough to follow your ignorance, I would save these messages. This way when I got hurt for wearing a helmet with no impact liner in it, I could come back and say you said it was OK to do so. I agree that some safety standards are a little much. However, wearing a helmet without an impact liner is plain old stupid. Just because someone else does it, does not make it smart or OK. Just because they are from a "Big City" department, does not make it right either. If you or someone else chooses to wear a OSHA helmet versus a NFPA helmet, that is your choice. At least they offer some protection. You may as well get a nomex knit hat from Dragonfur instead of a helmet if you intend to only wear a presentation helmet for duty. If your Chief knowinly allows this, he is just as ignorant as you are.
    Correct me if I'm wrong but don't you have a monetary stake in this? You sell helmets, right? WAIT you sell N5a's? They are OSHA. OH MY GOD!!! That is "tantamount to negligence." That is what you said right?

    Listen, guy, you can call me what you want but the crap you just wrote is ridiculous. Just plain ridiculous. I have said this many times before on here:

    SHOW ME PROOF OF ONE INSTANCE WHERE SOMEONE GOT HURT BECAUSE THEY WERE NO WEARING A NFPA COMPLIANT HELMET. SHOW ME WHERE THEY RISKED LIFE TO WEAR AN OSHA HELMET. SHOW ME WERE FAMILIES DID NOT GET PAID BENEFITS.

    No one has been able to yet. With your wast knowledge of the NFPA and rookie tips, I would think you could come up with something. Something else.

    You want to call me ignorant? Fine. But you're an idiot for your last post and that negates anything you could ever on here from here on out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MassFireGuy View Post
    Correct me if I'm wrong but don't you have a monetary stake in this? You sell helmets, right? WAIT you sell N5a's? They are OSHA. OH MY GOD!!! That is "tantamount to negligence." That is what you said right?

    Listen, guy, you can call me what you want but the crap you just wrote is ridiculous. Just plain ridiculous. I have said this many times before on here:

    SHOW ME PROOF OF ONE INSTANCE WHERE SOMEONE GOT HURT BECAUSE THEY WERE NO WEARING A NFPA COMPLIANT HELMET. SHOW ME WHERE THEY RISKED LIFE TO WEAR AN OSHA HELMET. SHOW ME WERE FAMILIES DID NOT GET PAID BENEFITS.

    No one has been able to yet. With your wast knowledge of the NFPA and rookie tips, I would think you could come up with something. Something else.

    You want to call me ignorant? Fine. But you're an idiot for your last post and that negates anything you could ever on here from here on out.
    This can go round and round for ever. I am not going to back down and obviously neither are you. For your information, yes I sell both kinds of helmets. I also know that some states and some Chiefs do not care about NFPA standards and accept OSHA standard helmets. If you missed what I have said during your rant, you will notice that I have said the the G5A is a presentation helmet, not a duty helmet. This is not a N5A (New Yorker) that is rated for firefighting. So, obviously you have no idea what you are even taking about as you are confusing at least 4 different helmets under three different standards.

    My assumption is this, you are either a fairly new guy who knows it all. Or, you are an older guy with some experience who is so disgruntled at the world, all he can do is come on here and tell everyone they are morons. I have watched your posts on other topics, you are always starting arguments. It seems to me, that there have been other like you here in the past. I do not post on a lot of issues because I don't feel the need to show my lack of knowledge in certain areas. However, this is one I am very well versed.
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    Your description of me is close. But I more in the middle of how you put it.

    Maybe I wasn't clear with what I was saying, but I have been repairing and refurbing leather helmets for 10 years now.

    Stick to selling rescue bags.

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    Oh jesus. When I asked these questions I knew there was a risk of people gettin in an arguement but remeber this is not for duty use. I'm gunna keep my own personal opinion on nfpa to myself but I really didnt want to start the whole safety arguement again on leather helmets. Whatever works for you, works for you. No big deal guys. But thank you to both sides of the arguement. And I know I'm new to this forum but does anyone else think if you took everyone from this site and went out to the bar it'd be one hell of a time?? lol

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