1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by reddevil53 View Post
    not here to impress with spelling or anythin, just letting the young thunder cat know not to stir the pot to much befor he dont have a deptment to go to. dont focus on being a officer focus on becoming one of the best fire fighters there is then worry aboout becoming an officer if at all. lot of responsbiltiy becoming one. especialy the saftey of the men who or under you. yes what i put up last night came out wrong. did not mean it in any threatning way and i applogize for that. and yes i know my speeling is something to be desiresd for but oh well.
    Are you putting us on?

    Really... "speeling"?

    I don't think the internet is right for you.

    I love that you advocate for him to focus on learning to be a good firefighter, but your obvious disdane for learning is apparent in your poor spelling.

    I urge you to focus on spelling.

    Oh, but the "thundercat" comment had me laughing. Love it.
    Last edited by ChiefKN; 02-12-2010 at 03:32 PM.
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

    "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

    "When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water."

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doorbreaker View Post
    The ICS 300/400 crap is one of the problems in this area. They will have a class, fill it with locals THEN announce the class and tell you it's full at the same time. Then when you ask about having a class, "gee, do you have enough people?"

    The state keeps cutting training hours and adding more requirements. Then they wonder why Fire Departments have problems getting members.....
    Who is 'They'?.......

  3. #28
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    I'm not interested in becoming an officer, I just wanted to see what everybody else requires of their officers. I want more than the bare minumium requirement, thats why I am starting driver/operator next month, and I could careless about becoming an officer, its not a goal of mine. My primary goal is to serve the community to best of my abilities.

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by lvfd2167 View Post
    I'm not interested in becoming an officer, I just wanted to see what everybody else requires of their officers. I want more than the bare minumium requirement, thats why I am starting driver/operator next month, and I could careless about becoming an officer, its not a goal of mine. My primary goal is to serve the community to best of my abilities.
    You don't have to defend a very good question.
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

    "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

    "When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water."

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChiefKN View Post
    You don't have to defend a very good question.
    I'll second that.

  6. #31
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    Our current requirement's until 3/31/2011:

    Qualifications to hold operational officers positions are as follows:
    Chief: PA State Certified Firefighter Level I, current first-aid,
    current CPR, current annual update on Hazardous Materials
    Operations Level prior to election.
    Deputy/Assistant Chiefs: Must be a firefighter for a minimum
    of 8 years, the last 5 of which shall be as an active firefighter of
    this department prior to appointment. PA State Certified
    Firefighter Level I, current first-aid, current CPR, current
    annual update on Hazardous Materials Operations Level prior
    to appointment.
    Captains/Lieutenants: Must be a firefighter for a minimum of
    3 years, the last 2 of which shall be as an active firefighter of
    this department prior to appointment. PA State Certified
    Firefighter Level I, current first-aid, current CPR, current
    annual update on Hazardous Materials Operations Level prior
    to appointment.
    Chief Engineer: Must be a firefighter for a minimum of 5
    years, the last 3 of which shall be as an active firefighter of this
    department prior to appointment. Pump I & II shall be
    completed prior to appointment, and EVOC taken a minimum
    of every three years after appointment.
    Captain of Fire Police, Sergeant & Lieutenant: An active
    fire police of this department for three consecutive years prior
    to election or appointment. 3 State approved Fire Police related
    courses prior to appointment, or election.
    Safety Officer: PA State Certified Firefighter Level I, current
    first-aid, current CPR, current annual update on Hazardous
    Materials Operations Level prior to appointment, and a Safety
    Officer course within 6 months of appointment.

    After 3/31/2011:

    A. Chief: Must be a firefighter with a minimum of 10 years of service with the
    Department, last 7 of which shall be as an active firefighter of this
    department. PA State Certified Fire Officer II, NIMS 100, 200, 700,800 certs,
    current CPR and First-Aid, qualified driver/operator up to the Squad, EVOC
    current within the last 3 years.
    B. Deputy Chief: Must be a firefighter with a minimum of 8 years of service, the
    last 5 of which shall be as an active firefighter of this department. PA State
    Certified Fire Officer Level II, NIMS 100, 200, 700, 800 certs, current CPR
    and First-Aid, qualified driver/operator up to the Squad, EVOC current within
    the last 3 years.
    C. Assistant Chief(s)/Battalion Chief: Must be a firefighter with a minimum of
    6 years of service, the last 4 of which shall be as an active firefighter of this
    department, PA State Certified Officer I, NIMS 100, 200, 700, 800 certs,
    current CPR and First Aid, qualified driver/operator up to the Squad, EVOC
    current within the last 3 years.
    D. Captain(s): Must be a firefighter with a minimum of 5 years of service, the
    last 3 of which shall be as an active firefighter of this department, PA State
    Certified Fire Officer Level I, NIMS 100, 200, 700, 800 certs, current CPR
    and First-Aid, qualified driver/operator up to the Engines, EVOC current
    within the last 3 years.
    E. Lieutenants: Must be a firefighter with a minimum of 4 years of service, the
    last 2 of which shall be as an active firefighter of this department, PA State
    Certified Firefighter Level II, NIMS 100, 200, 700, 800 certs, current CPR
    and First-Aid, qualified driver/operator up to the Engines, EVOC
    current within the last 3 years. (Must obtain Fire Officer I within tenure)
    F. Chief Engineer: Must be a firefighter with a minimum of 5 years of service,
    the last 3 of which shall be as an active firefighter of this department. PA
    State Certified Firefighter Level II, Fire Instructor Level I, NIMS 700, 800
    certs, current CPR and First-Aid, CERTIFIED driver/operator of all apparatus,
    EVOC current within the last 3 years. Pump I & II shall be completed prior to
    appointment.
    G. Assistant Engineer(s): Must be a firefighter with a minimum of 1 year of
    service, PA State Certified Firefighter Level I, NIMS 700, 800 certs, current
    CPR and First-Aid, CERTIFIED driver/operator up to the Engines, EVOC
    current within the last 3 years.
    H. Captain of Fire Police: Prerequisites governed by By-Laws.
    I. Safety Officer: PA State Certified Firefighter Level I, current first-aid,
    current CPR, current annual update on Hazardous Materials Operations Level
    prior to appointment, and a Safety Officer course within 6 months of
    appointment.
    J. QRS Captain: Must have 3 years of service, the last 2 of which shall be
    active years with this department. NIMS 100, 200, 700, 800 certs, PA DOH
    Emergency Medical Technician or medical professional.
    Qualified driver/operator of the QRS unit, EVOC current within the last 3
    years.

    We made the changes in 2008, but gave 3 years to implement them so as not to discourage any member or intimidate any current officer. I felt 3 years was sufficient time to complete the necessary courses.
    A Fire Chief has ONLY 1 JOB and that's to take care of his fireman. EVERYTHING else falls under this.

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by lvfd2167 View Post
    I'm not interested in becoming an officer, I just wanted to see what everybody else requires of their officers. I want more than the bare minumium requirement, thats why I am starting driver/operator next month, and I could careless about becoming an officer, its not a goal of mine. My primary goal is to serve the community to best of my abilities.
    I think you have a bigger problem lvfd2167. Apparently, there is quite possible someone on your department that has pegged you and is trying to get you to shut up and not ask questions. That is too bad.

    Better becarful what you post. dont air ur dept laundry out to the public i know who u are and where ya from.
    To stunt someone's quest for knowledge should be a shameful.

    To stunt someone's quest for knowledge using threats, is very dangerous.

    The way it looks to me is someone doesn't want level of training, or knowledge to be one of the basic qualifications for officers. Perhaps they just want to use their seniority or maybe the good old boy pecking order. That is a recipe for disaster. I should know, since it was a situation like that that nearly killed me when I was in the service for just one year.

    Our Chief did not believe in training or letting anyone pursue opportunity with other departments or the State Fire School. We didn't have proper gear or equipment. Even if we did, I doubt we would have used it correctly. I stayed at that department for two years and only moved when it became very clear to me that our Chief had a fear of anyone that might know more than him. I grew up in that town, and he always told us he could make sure that we would never be firefighter anywhere else if we screwed up. When I approached another department, I found out that his stroke was a joke.

    I can tell you that his regime ended tragically after several guys were badly injured during a structure fire. It was his fault and after the shame and bad press, he was run out of town. Finally the town woke up and realized that he was nothing more than a little Napoleon. Today, that department is one of the finest in the region.

    Some so-called officers should not be in a position to command people. Some use their position and authority as a way to 'beat up' or put down others, or 'strut' around carrying that awesome responsibility, without any real clue about what it really means. They have to be the center of conversation because they know it all. They are the most important guy around.

    If you have the ability to order people into potentially dangerous situations, and perhaps their death, you should pray everyday that you receive guidance from above to give you the sense of doing it right. We can train every minute, but we can still get injured or killed when we do everything right.

    Before I want people to blindly follow my orders, I want them to trust that I know what I am doing. Why should I expect them to do anything less than I myself had expected from my superiors?

    But for a guy to come on here and threaten someone with this crap shows me that he is afraid of knowledge, or someone that may become better informed or better trained than he himself is. Small minds and their fears try to hold back progress. Change is hard for some. Kind of like that old statement, "We have always done it that way, and it is good enough".

    I encountered this mentality a few days ago when I was teaching a NIMS 400 class. The only reason this particluar group attended was because they would lose their county tax money if their officers didn't pass the class. They didn't see the use for any of the ICS because they didn't need it. Fortunately , none passed the test. I say fortunately because they didn't try, they expected a pass on it because they felt special. Instead of trying to understand why they didn't pass, they tried to bully and yell. That didn't work. And I am sure that they didn't give me a glowing report on the Instructor comment card.

    But my job isn't to fail anyone; my job is to provide them opportunity for knowledge. What someone does with that opportunity is up to them. One of them perhaps got the message and arranged to try to retest. Maybe he will make a good Chief someday. It was clear that his chief didn't care about his own credentials and had the opinion that he didn't need this crap; he already knew everything that was really important.

    lvfd2167, you might need to be careful and you might want to think about your future with the department you're with. I didn't see you asking a question about the particular qualifications in your dept, but you hit a nerve with someone. This guy has threatened you by telling you to not air dirty laundry... I didn't read that either. I wish I knew which department this was, since they should be exposed for this behavior. I'm curious if they have alot of near misses, or injuries. Suddenly I want to know alot about these guys.

    Unlike this guy, I want the people in my charge to be the best they can be. I want them to raise the bar. I want them to think and ask questions. A firefighter that can think for himself has alot better chance of surviving than one that blindly follows the leader. Ask anyone that has ever had his butt handed to him.

    Hang in there my friend and do not let anyone ever hold you back from bettering yourself.
    HAVE PLAN.............WILL TRAVEL

  8. #33
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    pasobuff, "They" in this instance are the folks who set up the classes in this area. Looking at SEMOs site shows classes on both ends of the state. Ones in the middle always seem to be "course filled" even if you contact them as soon as the announcements are made.
    Not a big problem but it seems to be the common trend for this state.
    Require a department to do something. Then don't allow the training for it be be carried out.
    Kinda like Escape Ropes...

  9. #34
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    Any departments requiring associate or bachelor degrees for promotion?

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doorbreaker View Post
    pasobuff, "They" in this instance are the folks who set up the classes in this area. Looking at SEMOs site shows classes on both ends of the state. Ones in the middle always seem to be "course filled" even if you contact them as soon as the announcements are made.
    Not a big problem but it seems to be the common trend for this state.
    Require a department to do something. Then don't allow the training for it be be carried out.
    Kinda like Escape Ropes...
    Getting NIMS training is far from the biggest problem here in NYS. We have 7 probies that need FF1 and then we just added 3 more this week. The chief was told we could only have 2 slots in the class. My FD, here in Latham, is trying run our own class, picking up the tab ourselves. The father of the chief is a SFI, is expected to be the lead instructor. With 9 probies and several other members wanting to take the class we should have no problem meeting the min. needed.
    Stephen J Bourassa
    Latham FD (NY)
    member since 1969
    challenge competitor since 1993

  11. #36
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    We are lucky enough that we have Instuctor Is & IIs that we can pretty much do most of our own classes.

    Getting FFI & FFII through the state if you are a rural VFD is extremly tough.

    We have a major issue with NIMS 300 & 400 in that the only ones who teach it will only teach it during the day, which obviously causes an issue for those with weekday employment.

  12. #37
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    Angry Wrong Again..............

    Quote Originally Posted by reddevil53 View Post
    not here to impress with spelling or anythin, just letting the young thunder cat know not to stir the pot to much befor he dont have a deptment to go to.

    The Young "Thunder Cat" will always have a Department to go to. Mine. I don't know you, or him, beyond what I've read here. That Said, I'll take him over you, 8 days each week. You See, People who WANT to LEARN are Special. They posess a mindset that, almost 100% of the time, leads to one success after another. Yes, with his attitude, he will have a place in my organization if he wants it. You Sir, can crawl back under your Rock.

    I'm doing some research, since I'm becoming more and more interested in finding any Department that wants to prevent it's Members from Learning, and seeing that they are exposed for the Garbage that they are.
    Never use Force! Get a Bigger Hammer.
    In memory of
    Chief Earle W. Woods, 1912 - 1997
    Asst. Chief John R. Woods Sr. 1937 - 2006

    IACOJ Budget Analyst

    I Refuse to be a Spectator. If I come to the Game, I'm Playing.

    www.gdvfd18.com

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