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  1. #41
    Forum Member nmfire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BULL321 View Post
    Ok so you train your kids. Great I've got no problem with training. OK? Now what? They are expert radio operators? That and 25 cent will not get you a cup of coffee. They still can not operate on the fire ground or any other scene. Maybe they can hang out up at dispatch? If your Jrs are better on the radios than your SR. FF then maybe they need some training also. The question still remains, why do they, The Jrs., need their own radios?
    • Yes ours can and do operate on the fireground or any other ground.
    • Dispatch is locked an secure, but they could go on a tour?
    • Yes, our senior members need better training. If I was doing the training for them, they would have it but that isn't my responsibility. I've offered and been turned down.
    • I didn't say they NEED them. I'm simply saying that they CAN if they are into it and want to have one, then proper training makes it perfectly acceptable in my book.
    • I'd rather see the kid buy an XTS3000 than weed and ruffies.
    Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.


  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by LVFD301 View Post
    Do juniors need radios.

    Why no - of course not. 30+ years ago when I got started we did not have radios for everyone, Why does everyone need one now?

    Of course not. Even though we have some Juniors that are more mature than many so called adult firefighters (Come on, you know you have the same situation) we just like to lump all of them into the same "immature" bunch.

    Heck no. They MIGHT use them improperly. I am not sure what magic appears on the 18th birthday that changes everything, but it is there.

    NO! Our juniors never have a need. (Mine do - they work as runners, they work in our rehab, they take care of our water points. I want to be able to reach them when I need to)

    Why not give them the responsibility and let them run with it? If they screw up, take that responsibility away from the ones that screw up.
    You have good points. But why riskt he chance of them screwing up? Responsibility is a bigger word, if you get what I mean, on a fire scene than it is, say inside the fire house washing trucks. There's just too much that could go wrong, too fast if they would happen to screw up.

    Quote Originally Posted by nmfire View Post
    • Yes ours can and do operate on the fireground or any other ground.
    • Dispatch is locked an secure, but they could go on a tour?
    • Yes, our senior members need better training. If I was doing the training for them, they would have it but that isn't my responsibility. I've offered and been turned down.
    • I didn't say they NEED them. I'm simply saying that they CAN if they are into it and want to have one, then proper training makes it perfectly acceptable in my book.
    • I'd rather see the kid buy an XTS3000 than weed and ruffies.
    You, as well, have all valid points... And I would much rather see a kid buy a portable or a minitor pager (as some of ours have). I just think, while it's a priviledge to some Posts to be given the responsibility (for the record, I think it's great some areas have the opportunity to do so), that it's too big of a risk. And yes, I know, we could go on and all with the what-ifs.
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  3. #43
    Forum Member nmfire's Avatar
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    I'm not seeing the "RISK" of a properly trained junior/explorer having a portable radio. Risk of what?
    Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

  4. #44
    MembersZone Subscriber BULL321's Avatar
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    I can see that you do have a vaild point. And don't think that I am against the Jr FF or explorer programs, because I am not. Like I said above they are important to the VFF service. It just that I don't want one of these kids getting hurt, by "getting to big for there britches". They always seem to want to push the envelope and do more than they are suspose to do in the first palce, and it makes me leary thats all.
    Stay Safe
    Bull


    “Guys if you get hurt, we’ll help you. If you get sick we’ll treat you. If you want to bitch and moan, then all I can tell you is to flick the sand out of your slit, suck it up or get the hell out!”
    - Capt. Marc Cox CFD

    Nothing in life is so exhilarating as to be shot at without result.
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    http://sylvafiredeptnc.tripod.com

  5. #45
    MembersZone Subscriber LVFD301's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RFxplr326 View Post
    You have good points. But why riskt he chance of them screwing up? Responsibility is a bigger word, if you get what I mean, on a fire scene than it is, say inside the fire house washing trucks. There's just too much that could go wrong, too fast if they would happen to screw up.


    We train them, we develop them, we have NEVER had a radio issue with a junior. I guess its all in how your program is handled. Treat them like the young adults they are, and you may just find they rise to the occasion. Treat them like kids that can only wash a vehicle and roll hose, and that is exactly what you will get.

    I am big on giving people responsibility - rarely am I disappointed.

  6. #46
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    nm... Like I said, we could go on and on with the WHAT IFs/risks. Why risk a junior screwing something up or saying something he shouldn't over a portable? Why give a junior a piece of equipment that should be left and kept at the ready for a firefighter who might need it? When I first started riding along as an explorer, I tried to push for us being allowed to grab a portable. But I was repeatedly shot down by the chiefs and the advisors because A)if we're doing what we should be doing, we'd be with the engineer or the IC so one of them could give us direction and B) the reason I already gave and C) because it's a responsibility that they're not willing to give to explorers.

    Quote Originally Posted by BULL321 View Post
    I can see that you do have a vaild point. And don't think that I am against the Jr FF or explorer programs, because I am not. Like I said above they are important to the VFF service. It just that I don't want one of these kids getting hurt, by "getting to big for there britches". They always seem to want to push the envelope and do more than they are suspose to do in the first palce, and it makes me leary thats all.
    I used to be one of them that pushed the envelope... I got somewhere a couple times - got a ride along program started with 2 separate departments and I started an annual event here with all the local explorer posts at a local Homeland Security center (which, look for a post in these forums later this evening). Some times these pushes are for the good and some times they're not. I didn't get my way with a lot of things I tried to push. But now that I'm out of the post except for running and planning the Mock Disaster, I realize how I was just trying to keep my zipper from bursting.

    Quote Originally Posted by LVFD301 View Post
    We train them, we develop them, we have NEVER had a radio issue with a junior. I guess its all in how your program is handled. Treat them like the young adults they are, and you may just find they rise to the occasion. Treat them like kids that can only wash a vehicle and roll hose, and that is exactly what you will get.

    I am big on giving people responsibility - rarely am I disappointed.
    We don't treat them like that... The post is actually among the most fortunate posts in northwest Ohio with the "responsibilities" and things they're able to do. (if you want to get into that, email me, I'll send you their training schedule, schedule of events, and SOGs). And you're right - It has everything to do with how your post's program is handled. One thing we must all remember is that things are different everywhere... The post doesn't get called out for fires - They only way an explorer around here can be on an emergency scene is if they're riding. We'd rather see them exceling in school and becoming well-rounded leaders, in and out of the fire house.
    When I mentioned about responsibility, I was just trying to give an analogy of something that doesn't carry as many risks with it. Guess I just didn't say it right. My bad...
    Last edited by RFxplr326; 02-21-2010 at 05:09 PM.
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  7. #47
    Forum Member Explorer Asst Chief Fern's Avatar
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    I believe that there is no need for an explorer to OWN their own radio. If their fire dept would like them to have one on scene, it should be provided by the department at the time of the call. PLUS, there is not a black-and-white line with this. There are some depts (like mine) where there aren't enough explorers on a scene to need to call a par, where as other departments may have multiple explorers on a scene. Also, If the explorer advisor does not think someone is mature enough to handle a radio, then 1. they shouldn't be on a call and 2. JUST DON'T GIVE THEM A RADIO. I know there are some large explorer posts out there, but the explorer advisor should know his/her explorers well enough to distinguish between who is mature enough for a radio and who isn't. Now, if I were to go on a large fire call with my department and Chief (or whoever I responded with) wanted me to have a radio, I would grab a radio off of the truck. It would be used to communicate with him only, or anyone that specifically asked for my help. I would have no need to call par because I would be directly responsible to one firefighter (whether it be Chief or my explorer advisor or whoever I responded with) that would know exactly where I am. NONE of my explorers have ANY REASON to OWN a personal radio.
    Explorer Assistant Chief Alisha Fern

    Leadership: The ability to guide, direct, and influence others.

    Leadership can be thought of as a capacity to define oneself to others in a way that clarifies and expands a vision of the future.


    alisha.fern@firehousemail.com

  8. #48
    MembersZone Subscriber BULL321's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Explorer Asst Chief Fern View Post
    I believe that there is no need for an explorer to OWN their own radio. If their fire dept would like them to have one on scene, it should be provided by the department at the time of the call. PLUS, there is not a black-and-white line with this. There are some depts (like mine) where there aren't enough explorers on a scene to need to call a par, where as other departments may have multiple explorers on a scene. Also, If the explorer advisor does not think someone is mature enough to handle a radio, then 1. they shouldn't be on a call and 2. JUST DON'T GIVE THEM A RADIO. I know there are some large explorer posts out there, but the explorer advisor should know his/her explorers well enough to distinguish between who is mature enough for a radio and who isn't. Now, if I were to go on a large fire call with my department and Chief (or whoever I responded with) wanted me to have a radio, I would grab a radio off of the truck. It would be used to communicate with him only, or anyone that specifically asked for my help. I would have no need to call par because I would be directly responsible to one firefighter (whether it be Chief or my explorer advisor or whoever I responded with) that would know exactly where I am. NONE of my explorers have ANY REASON to OWN a personal radio.
    Miss Fern,

    You are a very smart young lady and you will go far in life. Thank you for your input.
    Stay Safe
    Bull


    “Guys if you get hurt, we’ll help you. If you get sick we’ll treat you. If you want to bitch and moan, then all I can tell you is to flick the sand out of your slit, suck it up or get the hell out!”
    - Capt. Marc Cox CFD

    Nothing in life is so exhilarating as to be shot at without result.
    -WINSTON CHURCHILL
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  9. #49
    Forum Member Explorer Asst Chief Fern's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BULL321 View Post
    Miss Fern,

    You are a very smart young lady and you will go far in life. Thank you for your input.
    Wow that really means a lot to me. haha that made my birthday so much better
    Explorer Assistant Chief Alisha Fern

    Leadership: The ability to guide, direct, and influence others.

    Leadership can be thought of as a capacity to define oneself to others in a way that clarifies and expands a vision of the future.


    alisha.fern@firehousemail.com

  10. #50
    MembersZone Subscriber BULL321's Avatar
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    Anytime.
    Stay Safe
    Bull


    “Guys if you get hurt, we’ll help you. If you get sick we’ll treat you. If you want to bitch and moan, then all I can tell you is to flick the sand out of your slit, suck it up or get the hell out!”
    - Capt. Marc Cox CFD

    Nothing in life is so exhilarating as to be shot at without result.
    -WINSTON CHURCHILL
    http://sylvafiredeptnc.tripod.com

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