Why go to a basic fire academy?

[paulLepore]

While people do get hired with limited experience, many fire candidates fail out of the academy when they finally do get hired. It is important to understand that the failure rate for a fire department academy (different than a junior college fire academy) in up to 40%.

Fire Chiefs do not want to hire people who will not make it through their training program. Since this is the case, most often the person hired is someone with prior training. If you are learning the parts of a ladder and the proper technique to throw it for the first time in a fire department academy you are going to be two steps behind the person who has already mastered the skill from a basic fire academy or volunteer firefighter position.

Let me give you an example:
You recently completed your EMT. I expect you did it in a semester long course which met twice each week for three hours at a time. You went home and studied and became proficient with your skills and book knowledge.

Imagine taking EMT in a three week condensed course for 8 hours each day. Every morning you have a major quiz on what you learned the previous day. That’s what we do in our fire department academy. Understanding this now you can see why we hire people who have prior EMT training. Do people get hired who do not have EMT training? Yes, absolutely. Imagine how well they have to sell themselves during an interview to make me believe they are going to make it.

Multiply this equation by 100 and now you have an understanding for the feeling about hiring a candidate with NO formal fire academy training. Why should we take a chance (remember the failure rate is up to 40%) when there are hundreds of candidates from which to choose.

Your military experience will absolutely help ONCE YOU ARE HIRED. It does not help you learn how to pull hose, learn the parts of a ladder or memorize the bones in the body.

Your best template is to enroll in fire science courses, stay physically fit, get yourself through a basic fire academy and LEARN HOW TO TAKE A FIRE DEPARTMENT INTERVIEW.

Good luck,

[stcaf]

I think it is misleading to say “many” cadets drop out of fire academy’s. I would say that most new hires do just fine and only a small percentage don’t not make it. I would like to know where you get your 40 percent dropout rate?

Maybe there are departments out there with 40% failure rates, but I would have to think this is the exception to the rule. Most likely, these are the big city departments that hire new firefighters based on other qualifications then experience (I guess we all see the elephant in the room).

So, let’s all remember that anyone can post on the internet regardless of actually knowing anything. I do agree with Paul on some of his info, but the rest I believe he pulled out of his rear end.

[zzyyzx]

Way to call out a pretty well respected Chief Officer on your 5th post. Chief Lepore has an extensive background in hiring with a large urban department.

I think his numbers do apply much more significantly to the larger departments, but even in my suburban/rural area I would expect about 10-25% to fail out or get fired for something they could have prevented. A city out here recently let go 5 out of 6 of their recruits due to integrity. Granted the last year or so has been much more successful since hiring is down significantly and they can pick one person out of the hundreds that apply.

[stcaf]

Let’s remember chiefs get to the administrative level for several different reasons. Because you are a chief, and no one will challenge you, does not give you cause to talk out of your bottom to the rest of us.

I think most of these guys get by on their self made up percentages and when these percentages are challenged, they fall apart with no real documentation to back them up. To say FDNY has a 40% dropout rate is one thing. To say the fire service has a 40% dropout academy rate is ridicules. The sad thing is people read this crap and believe it.

[BULL321]

Is this a sales pitch? Or is this someone just trying to give free advice?

Just asking. When you click on the web site under the posters name it seems more like a sales pitch. Are you Capt. Booby's cousin?

[CaptOldTimer]

Let’s remember chiefs get to the administrative level for several different reasons. Because you are a chief, and no one will challenge you, does not give you cause to talk out of your bottom to the rest of us.

I think most of these guys get by on their self made up percentages and when these percentages are challenged, they fall apart with no real documentation to back them up. To say FDNY has a 40% dropout rate is one thing. To say the fire service has a 40% dropout academy rate is ridicules. The sad thing is people read this crap and believe it.

Yeah bud what does Paul Lepore a Division Fire Chief, in a Southern California Fire Department know anyway??

He has been on the job longer than you have been living and probably has seen more fire in his days than you may expect to see. Don't take his word for anything!

He happens to be a well known author on helping new members seeking jobs and training. I would suggest that he has conducted studies on firefighters around the US and know what he is saying.

He just probably wrote that numbers down right off the top of his head.

If you do get on a department with that attitude about Chief Officers, you my friend will have a very hard time in your short stay in the fire service.

[safdkiltie]

...Your best template is to enroll in fire science courses, stay physically fit, get yourself through a basic fire academy and LEARN HOW TO TAKE A FIRE DEPARTMENT INTERVIEW.

Good luck,

Click the link at the bottom of the post. First book, right side top of page.

EDIT: after thinking about it, I hate to be presumptious, but it does seem kinda "connect the dots.."

[paulLepore]

I will tell you that my frame of reference does come from several major Caifornia fire departments. Yes, they are large departments who generally hire a lot of people. Are they exaggerated statistics.? Not even close, and certainly not pulled out of my rear end.....

[stcaf]

Paul Lapore is just using this forum as a cheap outlet mall to make a few bucks aspiring firefighters. If Paul did not pull his stats out of his rear, where did he get them? Maybe from his DC’s rear???

People, we need to not take these freelance chefs at their word and simply believe everything they say as fact. I understand the art of but kissing and if this guy was my wonder chief, I would just nod to his bs and laugh about him behind his back at the union meeting with everyone else (you all know what I’m talking about).

- “the failure rate for a fire department academy (different than a junior college fire academy) in up to 40%”. WHERE DOES THIS % COME FROM?

- “Fire Chiefs do not want to hire people who will not make it through their training program” This is my first clue that you are setting the reader up for a load of BS. First rule of BS, give the reader a common sense sentence so you seem creditable and give them your BS.

- “most often the person hired is someone with prior training.” If the majority of applicants have experience, then what percentage of applicants with experience fail out compared to those with no experience.

- “Why should we take a chance (remember the failure rate is up to 40%) when there are hundreds of candidates from which to choose.” Let me ask you why we should take a chance. Maybe because communities only require a drivers lic and a HS degree so they can get a “well rounded” group of applicants.

-“Your military experience will absolutely help ONCE YOU ARE HIRED. It does not help you learn how to pull hose, learn the parts of a ladder or memorize the bones in the body.”
What the heck are you talking about? So, magically after you are hired, your military experience will help you pull hose? What kind of a statement is this? Why would you even write this?“

- " Your best template is to enroll in fire science courses, stay physically fit, get yourself through a basic fire academy and LEARN HOW TO TAKE A FIRE DEPARTMENT INTERVIEW.”

I think you could have saved us all a lot of reading if you would have just included this final sentence. At lease the sentence does not read: If you enroll in a fire science course, stay fit, you will have a 60% chance of making it through the fictional 40% fail out academy.

Paul, I will e-mail you my credit card number, my birth cert, and a letter that my dad was a firefighter and maybe you can get me promoted to chief status and we can make up stats together to sell some snake oil at the summer fair in 2010.

[synergy]

Chief Lepore, thanks for the motivation to keep bettering ourselves and improving our chances of success both before and after recruitment through education and training. Yes, failure rates may vary from academy to academy, but the ugly truth is a cadet will be better prepared if he/she has already gone through the same type of training because they know what to expect.

I am still in the testing process, so I am not in any way attempting to portray that I am an active FF, but everyone's advice on this forum has been very helpful to me and others doing the best we can to be the best candidates and future firefighters possible.

[Jonnee]

Paul Lapore is just using this forum as a cheap outlet mall to make a few bucks aspiring firefighters. If Paul did not pull his stats out of his rear, where did he get them? Maybe from his DC’s rear???

People, we need to not take these freelance chefs at their word and simply believe everything they say as fact. I understand the art of but kissing and if this guy was my wonder chief, I would just nod to his bs and laugh about him behind his back at the union meeting with everyone else (you all know what I’m talking about).

- “the failure rate for a fire department academy (different than a junior college fire academy) in up to 40%”. WHERE DOES THIS % COME FROM?

- “Fire Chiefs do not want to hire people who will not make it through their training program” This is my first clue that you are setting the reader up for a load of BS. First rule of BS, give the reader a common sense sentence so you seem creditable and give them your BS.

- “most often the person hired is someone with prior training.” If the majority of applicants have experience, then what percentage of applicants with experience fail out compared to those with no experience.

- “Why should we take a chance (remember the failure rate is up to 40%) when there are hundreds of candidates from which to choose.” Let me ask you why we should take a chance. Maybe because communities only require a drivers lic and a HS degree so they can get a “well rounded” group of applicants.

-“Your military experience will absolutely help ONCE YOU ARE HIRED. It does not help you learn how to pull hose, learn the parts of a ladder or memorize the bones in the body.”
What the heck are you talking about? So, magically after you are hired, your military experience will help you pull hose? What kind of a statement is this? Why would you even write this?“

- " Your best template is to enroll in fire science courses, stay physically fit, get yourself through a basic fire academy and LEARN HOW TO TAKE A FIRE DEPARTMENT INTERVIEW.”

I think you could have saved us all a lot of reading if you would have just included this final sentence. At lease the sentence does not read: If you enroll in a fire science course, stay fit, you will have a 60% chance of making it through the fictional 40% fail out academy.

Paul, I will e-mail you my credit card number, my birth cert, and a letter that my dad was a firefighter and maybe you can get me promoted to chief status and we can make up stats together to sell some snake oil at the summer fair in 2010.

You make me sick! You are not a firefighter! You probably failed the first step in trying to be one by not filling out the application in its entirety!

Why did you get a membership to these forums only to come in here and blast a nationally known respected member of the fire service who happens to be a Chief Officer in a major California Fire Department!

Turn in your membership before the webteam cans you!

HOW DARE YOU SIR?

You could even begin to understand anything the Chief and others have said about being a member of the fire service.

I sure wish I could have you for 22 weeks of some of the hardest basic training that can be given out. You would in all probably be a drop out. We are like the Maries, we are looking for a few GOOD members!

[SPFDRum]

I read and reread Paul's post, don't see anywhere a pitch to sell something. But having gone through a city fire academy, he is right on with his advice.

[Just a new name]

STCAF,

Welcome to the boards.

I don't quite see where you see a sales pitch. Pretty much anything that Chief Lepore has put on here over the years is nothing more then something to get you thinking or maybe inspire you. I have never read one post from him that said, "go buy my book." Chief, or not he is a great guy. I have met him several times and I will tell you he is in it for the love of the job.

...and if you are wondering I was long hired before I met him.

[mikeyboy411]

stcaf,

My advice to you is not blast a well-respected, passionate, aggressive, intelligant Chief Officer from a Department that is very well-respected. If you don't know already, check out Long Beach Fire Department's training and then form your opinion about one of their C.Os.

The link is: www.lbfdtraining.com/

This link is great and showcases many topics. I'll even wager that you will learn a thing or two from this site.

As far as Chief Lepore's advice goes, he's correct and right on..... What is taught to us? Repetition, repetition, repetition.....

[Tipys]

Me thinks we have a troll.

[stcaf]

Wow, I never thought I would see such A** kissing. This guy is a joke and you all know it.

[SPFDRum]

Oh yeah, and your vast knowledge and education about the fire academy or the fire service in general has really shone through in your posts......

[Just a new name]

Wow, I never thought I would see such A** kissing. This guy is a joke and you all know it.

Good luck with your endeavors.

[merchan5967]

Oh yeah, and your vast knowledge and education about the fire academy or the fire service in general has really shone through in your posts......

I have some advice for you. If you don't like him, don't take his advice. You don't have to be a ***** to the guy, especially since, as far as I can tell, you don't even know him. If you think his advice is useless, don't listen to him... and we'll see how far you get in your fire service career.

p.s- Frankly, I'm thankful that there's someone on this site who is willing to offer some advice to aspiring firefighters like myself, and I can't believe you'd down him for trying to help you. Adjust your attitude bro.

[jbfitz]

I have some advice for you. If you don't like him, don't take his advice. You don't have to be a ***** to the guy, especially since, as far as I can tell, you don't even know him. If you think his advice is useless, don't listen to him... and we'll see how far you get in your fire service career.

p.s- Frankly, I'm thankful that there's someone on this site who is willing to offer some advice to aspiring firefighters like myself, and I can't believe you'd down him for trying to help you. Adjust your attitude bro.

St. Paul's a damn good department, I'd say just in getting appointed there he's done quite well for himself. You people do realize that most top departments couldn't care less about prior certs, degrees and other pieces of paper right?