1. #1
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    Default Helmet cam video from Jersey

    Did anyone see this? 3 guys on the front steps, no one making a push! The guys outside with masks on. The guy with the camera suckin wind like a fat kid in gym class. I would have hid this video, not shared it with the world!

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    i disagree with hiding it, its documented scenarios like this one and ones that appear in firefighterclosecalls.com that have helped us in the fire service to learn from past mistakes as there are in the video and learn to do things more safely and efficiently. it also presses us to do more proper training in bailing out and rapidly exiting a structure. it may be in part, a reason to teach and practice bailouts in firefighter I if it is not already taught in some places. more importantly it presses the issue that ladders need to be placed on every side of a structure and if you have extra ladders on the truck, take them off the rig and find a non vent window and ladder it. i'm a firm believer in laddering, they aren't on the rigs for show, its for use; if u got it, use it.

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    The best way to describe that helmet cam video...
    "It was a Charlie Foxtrot of epic proportions.
    I hope the brother who fell off the ladder doing the ladder bail didn't get hurt too badly.
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

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    from what i heard from a local news source there, was that he wasn't hurt too badly, it is in part another of the many reasons to wear full ppe.

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    Just goes to show that doing a ladder bail, "for real" is a lot harder than most people think. Glad he is ok. My thoughts and prayers go to the family that lost their mother.
    Stay Safe
    Bull


    “Guys if you get hurt, we’ll help you. If you get sick we’ll treat you. If you want to bitch and moan, then all I can tell you is to flick the sand out of your slit, suck it up or get the hell out!”
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    WTB link this makes me curious

    Nevermind
    Last edited by Firebird92; 02-17-2010 at 06:20 PM. Reason: Found the article myself.

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    The focus is apparently supposed to be on the bailout, I suppose, but...

    Guys upstairs while there's a line operating outside in the back ( into the window, I guess ). No ventilation to speak of. Ground ladders? Yelling...etc...

    This could certainly be armchair QB'd to death. I don't like to do that: I wasn't there. But when you put something like this out for the world to see, it's an invitation to do just that. In this case, the bailout seems to be simply another "hang up" in a littany of "hang ups", and it's hard to see it as a teachable moment.

    As an aside, I'm of the opinion that the helmet cam is one of the single worst inventions of all time and every self respecting FD should ban them and every firemen should eschew them. They are little more that an invitation to grandstand and/or get into trouble. A chest puffing accessory. In any sort of deposition or lawsuit, it's a record of any and every eff up on the fireground. On the web, it is little more that a way to show off to girls and impressionable firefighters. In fact, I take back what I said about FDs banning them ( I'm not much of one for governmental intervention ). I'll just stick with: A guy oughta have more sense. If they stayed around the firehouse, or were genuinely used for a training tool interdepertmentaly, then they might be of some use. But in truth, they serve little purpose other than to distract the wearer ( gotta look cool, gotta do something cool, say something cool, etc...), and act as a stage for grand standing.
    Last edited by safdkiltie; 02-17-2010 at 04:54 PM.

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    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xX0OWCPdA4E

    Is that it?
    If so, there's some interesting things goin on, the only thing I'll say is,
    What's up with the orange trauma shears in the helmet band at 1:51???

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    Wow...........

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    I'm concerned about the ff using the hoseline without a helmets or gloves as well as the other ff with no helmet next to him. Also did they take the ladder for the bailout away from the 2 other guys on the roof? Was that a chief officer looking into the 2nd story window with smoke coming out without an scba? There's more than just a laddder bailout that can be learned from this video.

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    Where do you begin.
    bobbyg retired

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    Quote Originally Posted by safdkiltie View Post
    But in truth, they serve little purpose other than to distract the wearer ( gotta look cool, gotta do something cool, say something cool, etc...), and act as a stage for grand standing.
    Well, none of those apply to the guy wearing the cam in this video.

    I've never been at a fire where everything went right. So, I try not to jump on people too hard when technology lets me see all of the things that went wrong on their fire. Stuff happens. Just don't let it get you killed. That's where the teachable moment comes in here -- it's important to practice bailouts (my department doesn't -- yet) and its important to throw ladders (we do, but not as much as we should).

    As for the camera man, I'm not sure he ever does anything. He yells some. He keeps walking back and forth from one side to the other. I dunno... Maybe he's a chief.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cozmosis View Post
    Well, none of those apply to the guy wearing the cam in this video.

    Well stated. Kinda submarines my post, heh heh heh ...

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    Quote Originally Posted by MG3610 View Post
    Wow...........
    That's what I thought.

    A lot of training potential in that video. I'm actually going to use it tonight; teaching ladders to my FF I and II guys.

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    I know the area. I have little info about the fire. There is a rumor floating around that they heard the woman screaming on arrival and did the best they could to get to her.
    This space for rent

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    I am just trying to figure out what tactics they are using. My guess is they went in on the 2nd floor D/C corner to VES, but left the room they entered. What prompted the firefighter to bail out? I personally did not see that much smoke/fire coming out the window he bailed out of. Was his egress cut off and he was trapped in that room? Does anybody have the details of the incident?
    Last edited by RFD21C; 02-17-2010 at 07:25 PM. Reason: spelling

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    Maybe someone should have accended the ladder to help the brother out.

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    This is close to me. I listened to the entire job over the radio.

    From what I remember and what i've heard...

    The elderly woman's elderly son got out and told FF's that his mother was trapped on 2nd floor.

    The first in pushed and pushed hard, and eventually had to bail.

    The guys standing around were the FAST team (as was the guy wearing the cam).

    Are there things to learn here, you betcha.
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

    "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

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    Edit..........post was wrong.

    I'll find out more and let you know what I find out.
    Last edited by ChiefKN; 02-17-2010 at 09:12 PM.
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

    "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

    "When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water."

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    Boys forgive me, I hit my pro-boards in May but, Would PPV in the front of that house been a good idea there? I would like to hear how the "Crusties" would have handled that. Or was she to Far gone from the Get-go?

    Also what the Hell was with the Ladder Flip Flopping from Side to Side???
    Last edited by Bushwhacker; 02-17-2010 at 09:39 PM.
    Courage, Being Scared to Death and Saddling Up anyways.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bushwhacker View Post
    Boys forgive me, I hit my pro-boards in May but, Would PPV in the front of that house been a good idea there? I would like to hear how the "Crusties" would have handled that. Or was she to Far gone from the Get-go?
    Not for me, that fire was cranking and feeding that downstairs fire could compromise those stairs.

    I would have put one line up the stairs with the initial search team (you know you have a victim up there) and the second protecting the stairs.
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

    "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

    "When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water."

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChiefKN View Post
    Not for me, that fire was cranking and feeding that downstairs fire could compromise those stairs.

    I would have put one line up the stairs with the initial search team (you know you have a victim up there) and the second protecting the stairs.
    Agree, no PPV yet for our department. Probably horizontal ventilation. We just don't use much vertical.

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    No PPA for us here. It appears the fire was already venting from the A-side windows and some venting from the rear. Would have horizontailly ventilated more windows as needed. First line would have pushed in through the front and atleast protected the stair well, to allow for the rescue company to make the 2nd floor. 2nd line would have gone through the front door and allowed for the 1st line to make the fire attack and then streatch up to the 2nd floor for extension. My guess is the stairs are directly behind the front door area

    I am not a fan of PPA. personally i think this would have caused the fire to grow and further extend into the attic and possiblely the 2nd floor. however that is a debate for another thread.

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    What is up with this clown that has the helmet cam on? If he is on the RIT team like you say, he needs some serious red-education before he should ever be allowed on a fireground again. He was on air the whole time OUTSIDE while on a RIT assignment. Am I the only one who see's a serious problem with that? Firegrounds can be a big ball of suck. Nothing ever goes right or by the book. But this guy needs some serious help. Who the hell is he going to help when his bottle is empty before he even goes in to help a brother.

    It is tough baling head first. It is hard when practicing, imagine when the adrenaline is pumping. Glad he got out OK.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RFD21C View Post
    No PPA for us here. It appears the fire was already venting from the A-side windows and some venting from the rear. Would have horizontailly ventilated more windows as needed. First line would have pushed in through the front and atleast protected the stair well, to allow for the rescue company to make the 2nd floor. 2nd line would have gone through the front door and allowed for the 1st line to make the fire attack and then streatch up to the 2nd floor for extension. My guess is the stairs are directly behind the front door area

    I am not a fan of PPA. personally i think this would have caused the fire to grow and further extend into the attic and possiblely the 2nd floor. however that is a debate for another thread.
    Vertical ventilation is huge at most fires. Get on that roof and cut a hole or your guys will take a beating inside.

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