1. #1
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    Default fire damage question

    In an apartment building the smoke damage would mainly be above the fire floor and water damage would be mainly below the fire floor. I am correct?

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    Not in Australia.
    "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

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    Quote Originally Posted by FWDbuff View Post
    Not in Australia.
    Lol.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FWDbuff View Post
    Not in Australia.
    Are the nozzle controls backwards too? Bale forward is on and back is off?
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    Usually, but there are things that can force the smoke downward, such as ventilation and thermal currents. You probably won't have much in the way of water damage above the fire unless that's where the water is coming from or there is a large amount of steam.

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    When communicating on a radio down under would it be "I'm me-hey you" instead of "hey you-it's me"?

    Do the rotators turn counter-clockwise?

    And about the actual thread .....

    Water would be mainly below.

    Smoke could be above or below.

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    Smoke damage on the fire floor too if there's a delay with top ventilation. 4 story building w/ fire on 3rd floor. Until the bulkhead/skylight's open smoke will bank down and enter other apartments..

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    Depending on the size/type of apartment building we're talking about here... If there is a common HVAC system for corridors or lobbies on multiple floors, it can spread smoke to uninvolved floors if it is on.

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    Is this for another class assignment? You are the "perceived services" guy, right?

    Smoke above, water below - "typically". Sometimes fires aren't "typical".

    As noted, smoke can follow a variety of factors, but will usually be the fire floor or above.

    Water will follow gravity, so usually be the fire floor or below. I could also see some moderate water damage above, if say a standpipe was charged and the outlets not all checked to ensure they are capped/gated. Maybe the fire floor is below grade, so the first floor would get some water as well as the basement, and maybe a few other instances.

    Why do you ask?
    Opinions expressed are mine alone, and do not necessarily reflect those of the Philadelphia Fire Department and/or IAFF Local 22.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FWDbuff View Post
    Not in Australia.
    Close the thread, FWD wins.
    Logic and proportion have fallen sloppy dead.

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    Len's absolutely correct. Earlier this year I did a fire in a 5 story brownstone style apt. building in an urban area of NJ. Smoke actually banked down through the walls. Had a DOA in bed with a CO of over 60% two floors below the fire.

    BTW, one of the most dangerous words in the fire service is "always".
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post

    BTW, one of the most dangerous words in the fire service is "always".
    No, not always.


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    Ok, answering the original question.....

    Generally, you are correct. GENERALLY.

    Unless there is some special circumstance that changes the dynamics such as what Len and George have said or some sort of change in the free burning fire to direct the fire to vent someplace other than what would be "normal."
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    I've been around a long time and I still do not know what "NORMAL" means in terms of a fire.

    From Live Team 5, we take you to our reporter in the field at the scene of a house fire.

    Reporter: Can you tell us what you had here Chief?

    Chief: We had a Normal Fire.

    Reporter: Can you give us a little more information?

    Chief: Well you see, we received a 911 call about a fire in a single-family residence. Our first units on scene reported that is was just a Normal Fire.

    Reporter: Is that all you can tell us about tonights situation?

    Chief: Look lady... it was just a Normal Fire... you know NORMAL. let me spell it out for you... N... O... R... M... A... L... You got that yet? We see these everyday... Go back to the News Room, get out your Thesaurus and look up NORMAL if you don't like the word. Have a nice day.

    Reporter: Back to you Chuck...

    Sorry Dickey... could you please explain for the folks at home what Normal means?

    I understand terms like "expected", "generally", "anticipated", "typical"... but I don't think I have ever seen a normal fire.

    Please advise.
    HAVE PLAN.............WILL TRAVEL

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    One thing NORMAL about a fire is its HOT. Anything else is a best guess scenario and needs to be assessed on scene.

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    Ok....here goes...

    "NORMAL" = Under MOST circumstances.

    We know based on solid physics that fire will do certain things. Based on these principals of science, we would expect certain fire behaviors unless there was an outside force to alter that expectation.

    Such as the normal science of fire and how it behaves. Example= Fire always goes up unless there is something that changes it's behavior such as a broken window for it to vent out of.

    Another example would be fire will "normally" go out once hit with a water stream, unless it is accelerated somehow. (that is, provided the stream of water is big enough)




    Geez....my head hurts now.
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    Geez....my head hurts now.
    So does mine...

    Thanks.
    HAVE PLAN.............WILL TRAVEL

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    This fire was normal until it killed a few of our firefighters. Which I guess still makes it normal because after all it was a normal fire.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Itshotinhere View Post
    This fire was normal until it killed a few of our firefighters. Which I guess still makes it normal because after all it was a normal fire.
    Ok, so it is kind of like every normal day that is normal.

    Now it makes perfect sense to me. I guess I just need to look at it differently.

    I didn't understand that once you see one fire, you have seen them all.

    It is much like the McDonalds hamburger... when you order it, you already know what to expect.

    __________________________________________________ _________

    I think you guys are trying to kill some of my brain cells or make me stroke out. It was so easy.... so Normal. I'll be sure to pass it on.
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    I have to do a presentation about fire safety and candles so I was going to show how the fire would affect the whole building and not just the one the fire apartment. That way maybe people will think more.

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    We just went over search patterns, isn't it fire floor, floor above and then top floor, then work your way back down? Going to the top floor becuase smoke rises?
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    Quote Originally Posted by FireEMT712 View Post
    We just went over search patterns, isn't it fire floor, floor above and then top floor, then work your way back down? Going to the top floor becuase smoke rises?
    I dunno. We pretty much search the whole double-wide at one time
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    Quote Originally Posted by no1metfan View Post
    In an apartment building the smoke damage would mainly be above the fire floor and water damage would be mainly below the fire floor. I am correct?
    You could say that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by no1metfan View Post
    I have to do a presentation about fire safety and candles so I was going to show how the fire would affect the whole building and not just the one the fire apartment. That way maybe people will think more.
    People would have to think, PERIOD, before they can think more...
    Opinions expressed are mine alone, and do not necessarily reflect those of the Philadelphia Fire Department and/or IAFF Local 22.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FireEMT712 View Post
    We just went over search patterns, isn't it fire floor, floor above and then top floor, then work your way back down? Going to the top floor becuase smoke rises?
    Yes sir, the way I was tought is the exact same. Also remember, it isn't just smoke, but heat also, HVAC systems like to take that all over the place.

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