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    Default Spartan Cab & Pierce Body

    I know I'm going to catch sh*t for asking this...but would Pierce ever consider doing just a body and working off of a Spartan cab/chassis?

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    My guess is no, I doubt either company would be in favor of it.

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    Why bother? There are plenty of builders who can build a body at least as well as Peirce and routinely use Spartan.

    In fact if you take away the Peirce cab, you lose the "look" of a Peirce which quickly makes the Kool-Aid spoil, making Peirce fans hurl everywhere.

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    As a matter of fact, Montgomery County (MD) talked to Pierce about completing the build of 38 pumpers on Spartan chassis when Elite Mfg. folded. Montgomery had already bought the chassis and was looking for a body builder to finish the units. Pierce declined to bid on this deal which went to Crimson who finished the trucks.

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    Default Montgomery County

    Isn't Crimson owned by Spartan? Kept the deal in house it looks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by donethat View Post
    Isn't Crimson owned by Spartan? Kept the deal in house it looks.
    Exactly. There were other bidders but most believe that Crimson had the inside track.

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    Acording to Rumor control, Spartan is concidering endindg the sale of it's chassis to other builders and supplying only to Crimson.
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoofTopTrucky View Post
    Acording to Rumor control, Spartan is concidering endindg the sale of it's chassis to other builders and supplying only to Crimson.
    I would find that rumor very hard to believe. If Spartan did that, they would be cutting their own throat. There are quite a few builders that primarily build on the Spartan chassis that sell more trucks compared to Crimson. Rosenbauer is a very good example. The vast majority of the custom cab rigs that Rosenbauer builds is on Spartan with the leftovers going with HME. Rosenbauer has risen to #2 in sales in the U.S., second only to Pierce and far ahead of Crimson. I can't believe that Spartan would cut off sales of their chassis to the other customers but who knows, stranger things have happened.

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    That would be Rosie Central. And only if you include wildland/brush units in the sales # which Pierce and E-One do not.

    Nearly all of the middle market mfg use Spartan. I think E-One will still build on a Spartan chassis in some models.

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    I beleive Rosenbauer America (General Safety and Central States) are considered #2. General uses a bunch of Spartan chassis.

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    I've sat in dealer meetings with Spartan where they claim they steadfastly refuse to sell to Pierce and ALF. The Montgomery County deal was a unique case as they owned the chassis free and clear, and as such could have done whatever they wanted with them.

    Currently, if you are not a Spartan partner or produce your own chassis to compete with the Spartan (i.e. KME and E-One), you are not given the same discounting as someone that is a partner. I sat in Las Vegas and heard the same speech everyone else did. I don't think this has changed.

    I don't believe the rumor for a second, but if Spartan ceases sales to anyone but Crimson they will effectively kill their fire apparatus chassis division. Smeal and Rosenbauer, plus the collective strength of the smaller brands sells many more chassis than Crimson alone does.
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    HME at one time talked about cutting off the other builders as well and just selling the private label units to current customers (Ferrara) HME had a traget at one time.
    Fyrtrks

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    Quote Originally Posted by fireinfo10 View Post
    That would be Rosie Central. And only if you include wildland/brush units in the sales # which Pierce and E-One do not.

    Nearly all of the middle market mfg use Spartan. I think E-One will still build on a Spartan chassis in some models.
    Both E-One and Ferrara will build on a Spartan chassis. However, Ferrara has a problem in competing with Smeal on a ladder truck bid when a Spartan chassis is specified as opposed to a Ferrara custom chassis (e.g., Inferno or Igniter). Smeal doesn't like to sell an aerial device to Ferrara on a Spartan chassis when they are also bidding. This is one of the reasons why Ferrara would like to eventually build their own aerials rather than buying them from Smeal. This was the case in the early days of Pierce when they used to buy aerials from LTI before they started having them built by Kewaunee (WI) Mfg which was eventually bought by Oshkosh.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeadOff View Post
    Both E-One and Ferrara will build on a Spartan chassis. However, Ferrara has a problem in competing with Smeal on a ladder truck bid when a Spartan chassis is specified as opposed to a Ferrara custom chassis (e.g., Inferno or Igniter). Smeal doesn't like to sell an aerial device to Ferrara on a Spartan chassis when they are also bidding. This is one of the reasons why Ferrara would like to eventually build their own aerials rather than buying them from Smeal. This was the case in the early days of Pierce when they used to buy aerials from LTI before they started having them built by Kewaunee (WI) Mfg which was eventually bought by Oshkosh.
    I was under the impression that Pierce used Smeal aerials during the late 80s/early 90s until they started their own ladder shop?

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    Quote Originally Posted by skipatrol8 View Post
    I was under the impression that Pierce used Smeal aerials during the late 80s/early 90s until they started their own ladder shop?
    True to some extent. Pierce used LTI aerials from '74 to '84 and then went with Smeal from '84 to '91. In 1991, Pierce began to have an aerial tower designed by Structural Fabrications, Inc. (a PA-based spinoff of LTI) built by Kewaunee Engr in WI. In 1996, Oshkosh bought Pierce Mfg and then bought Kewaunee in 1999.

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    I am sure that if you have enough money to wave in front of pierce's face they will build it. You might have to pay ten times the cost of a normal pierce engine.

    I am sure technically yes it could be done. However names and logo's are going to cause them not to want to. However any profit driven company will agree to it if the money is right. Money talks bs walks

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    Quote Originally Posted by RoofTopTrucky View Post
    Acording to Rumor control, Spartan is concidering endindg the sale of it's chassis to other builders and supplying only to Crimson.
    Brilliant.

    On a side note, this I believe was one (of many) decisions that led to the eventual demise of the re-born ALF.

    Lastly, a Spartan chassis with a Appleton body? You may have a better chance of seeing spring on the East coast!

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeadOff View Post
    Both E-One and Ferrara will build on a Spartan chassis....
    The same little birdie at Rumor control also told me that due to a series of major problems with a few chassis they have recieved from spartan, one of the above mentioned MFG's in currently considering cutting ties with Spartan.
    The problems consisted of Spartan biddin a chassis for them so they could bid a truck, they bid the truck, win the bid, and then Spartan refuses to do some of the things they put in their bid/price to the mfg. along with chasiss comming in wrong, as in wrong equipment, pieces and parts not mounted, incorrect dash boards and dash layouts.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 52shelby View Post
    Brilliant.

    On a side note, this I believe was one (of many) decisions that led to the eventual demise of the re-born ALF.

    Lastly, a Spartan chassis with a Appleton body? You may have a better chance of seeing spring on the East coast!
    Careful, we haven't seen sub 30's in almost 3 weeks with nothing but warm air predicted. Kinda ruining my vacation plans. I'd much rather leave ice and snow for the tropics, then have to worry about the grass being mowed!

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    Quote Originally Posted by RFDACM02 View Post
    Careful, we haven't seen sub 30's in almost 3 weeks with nothing but warm air predicted. Kinda ruining my vacation plans. I'd much rather leave ice and snow for the tropics, then have to worry about the grass being mowed!
    I'll make a call! Corin will take care of your grass. Enjoy your vaca,leave everything to Timmy,hehe T.C.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ATFDFF View Post
    I know I'm going to catch sh*t for asking this...but would Pierce ever consider doing just a body and working off of a Spartan cab/chassis?

    So if Pierce is so hot that no other mfg will do, what is wrong with their wonderful fantastic chassis that makes you want/need a Spartan?

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    Quote Originally Posted by fireinfo10 View Post
    So if Pierce is so hot that no other mfg will do, what is wrong with their wonderful fantastic chassis that makes you want/need a Spartan?
    I don't think that I ever said that Pierce was "so hot" or that no other manufacturer will suffice. We haven't ruled anyone out, and certainly don't have a favorite...for heavens sake, our apparatus committee has had 1 meeting!

    This was an idea that was just thrown out there. We have two Pierce engines that are doing very well for us, no major (or minor) Pierce related problems. We also have 2 rigs that are on Spartan Cabs/chassis and we tend to like those cabs better than the Pierce's. So someone just threw the idea out there, and I decided to gather a bit more information.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ATFDFF View Post
    We also have 2 rigs that are on Spartan Cabs/chassis and we tend to like those cabs better than the Pierce's. So someone just threw the idea out there, and I decided to gather a bit more information.
    Well, if you like the Spartan cab/chassis, you do have quite a selection of body builders (e.g., Rosenbauer, Toyne, Alexis, Crimson, 4-Guys, Smeal, just to name a few) that utilize Spartan, but not Pierce as has been reported. We have purchased quite a few Spartans over the years that were equipped with Saulsbury S/S bodies. That was a good combo that unfortunately is no longer available, thanks to E-One. It's too bad that the timing was wrong or maybe Spartan would have bought Saulsbury when they created Crimson Fire rather than who they did buy (Luverne and Quality). Oh well, that's the way it goes. Good luck with your committee.

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