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    Default I'm pretty sure, Obama doesn't want to be President anymore

    Let's see...

    He is putting forth almost the exact same health care plan that US voters have been rebelling against for almost a year.

    He has included the "Louisiana Purchase" in the plan.

    He is threatening to bring the health care plan in through the back door by using reconciliation or attaching it to a new spending bill.

    His approval rate has gone downhill faster than any other US President. In act, Rasmussen shows 41% strongly disapprove of his job performance.

    He has had his head handed to him on a silver platter in special elections recently.

    I really hope he gets his wish and is only a one term President. In fact, if his first year is this bad, I would not be surprised if he resigned before his term is over.
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    Does that mean we are going to have to pay for Louisiana,Tennessee,Mississippi,parts of Kentucky and other states all over again or is Barack Hussein Obama showing his ignorance of American history?
    Last edited by doughesson; 02-23-2010 at 02:39 PM.

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    He finally did what he should have done a year ago, of course this is the price of having an inexperienced leader in the white house.

    Had a chat with my neighbor yesterday who is on SS and Medicare. Each year the cost of medicare has gone up for him and the SS increase doesn't keep pace. It is clear that they need to fix the problems in the existing systems first. One step in the right direction would be to eliminate all but one. A single public assistance health care plan. What a novel idea.

    At least he dropped the bone headed idea of the public option. But what is frightening is the tax on the Cadillac plans. If a person or family wants to pay for the extra insurance then so what?? Good for them. Don't punish them. That is what is great about this country, we punish people for being successful. As proof, I offer the 44% in taxes that was stolen form the bonus that I earned.

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    Just a general question relating to public funded health care. As I understand it, if your employer includes a health care plan in your salar, it becomes a business cost. Correct? If so it will be tax deductible. Correct? Therefore it becomes a benefit which is actually paid by the taxpayer at large?

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    Quote Originally Posted by BryanLoader View Post
    Just a general question relating to public funded health care. As I understand it, if your employer includes a health care plan in your salar, it becomes a business cost. Correct? If so it will be tax deductible. Correct? Therefore it becomes a benefit which is actually paid by the taxpayer at large?
    Yes, if my employer gives me health insurance it is a tax deduction for the company. It does not count against my salary so I pay no taxes on it. So, in my case, my Policy cost $3000, the company pays 80%. This company makes enough money that the tax savings for them is roughly 50%, so the policy essentially cost the company $1200 per year. Now if that benefit was removed and I had to pay for it all, at the 43% tax rate, I would need to make $4,290 more in my pay to break even.

    But I also get a $5,250 tuition reimbursement as well. And many other untaxed benefits like - Gym membership cost, reduced cost on the products they sell, Discounts on products and services like cellular service, insurance, gym memberships, and computers. So by your logic, all of my benefits are paid for by the tax payer at large.

    The problem it that people have forgotten what insurance is all about. Insurance protects you against major illnesses and injuries. Insurance is not a health care plan. A health care plan is developed between the patient and the doctor. When one picks a health insurance plan they pick one that meets their needs and level of acceptable risk. Some people are fine with $1,000 deductible, and as such, pay a lower premium. What has happened is people have gotten to the point that they don't accept the normal risk. They want office visits paid for and drugs covered. The added coverage adds to the cost.

    The liberals in this country have said that health care cost are out of control and not everyone can afford the high cost of health care. To fix the high cost we will change how we pay for it. Therein lies the basic problem, changing the way you pay for something does not change how much it cost. Adding government to the mix just adds more administrative cost with no better health care. In NYS, I'm not sure if this is true across the country, we have 23 different programs for public assisted health care. That is 23 repetitive agencies with the same administrative cost times 23. I know at the federal level we have medicaid, medicare, and SCHIPP. Plus we have all of the insurance programs for the VA and federal workers. Multiple layers of redundant administrative cost. Its a waste. Combine all of those systems into one system and cut cost; you know, the way private industry does it.

    So NO my benefit is not paid for by the taxpayer anymore than any of the other millions of incentives and social engineering projects that go on with tax dollars.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post
    Let's see...

    He is putting forth almost the exact same health care plan that US voters have been rebelling against for almost a year.

    He has included the "Louisiana Purchase" in the plan.

    He is threatening to bring the health care plan in through the back door by using reconciliation or attaching it to a new spending bill.

    His approval rate has gone downhill faster than any other US President. In act, Rasmussen shows 41% strongly disapprove of his job performance.

    He has had his head handed to him on a silver platter in special elections recently.

    I really hope he gets his wish and is only a one term President. In fact, if his first year is this bad, I would not be surprised if he resigned before his term is over.
    I remember my dad got himself worked up into the same frenzy believing that Clinton would also get ousted. I think it almost killed him when that didn't happen.

    Don't get too worked up over this belief.

    The GOP has shown they have no interest in health care reform other than the status quo. A system that is also unsustainable. One has to love Anthem Blue Cross jacking rates almost 40% at a time when the entire industry is under scrutiny.

    We should all be so lucky to have access to the government run health care Cheney had when he was VP.
    Last edited by scfire86; 02-23-2010 at 11:05 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    . Each year the cost of medicare has gone up for him and the SS increase doesn't keep pace. It is clear that they need to fix the problems in the existing systems first. One step in the right direction would be to eliminate all but one. A single public assistance health care plan. What a novel idea.
    Congress got their annual pay raise.Wonder how they can afford that while claiming that COLA raises for SSI beneficiaries would be too expensive?
    Whatever plan that gets passed needs to have wording that removes Congress' healthcare plans and subjects THEM to the the plan as passed by them and signed into law by the President.
    THEN,they might actually come up with some useful legislation.If it's good enough for the People,why isn't it good enough for Congress?

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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    I remember my dad got himself worked up into the same frenzy believing that Clinton would also get ousted. I think it almost killed him when that didn't happen.

    Don't get too worked up over this belief.

    The GOP has shown they have no interest in health care reform other than the status quo. A system that is also unsustainable. One has to love Anthem Blue Cross jacking rates almost 40% at a time when the entire industry is under scrutiny.

    We should all be so lucky to have access to the government run health care Cheney had when he was VP.
    It might be a previous Administration's fault but wasn't the chant in 2001,"Don't blame the previous President for the problems that you face now that YOU are in office"?
    If so,Barack Hussein Obama needs to stop blaming people for the woes he is having on HIS watch and start to come up with more palatable ideas to try and get Congress and the voters to accept.

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    Quote Originally Posted by doughesson View Post
    It might be a previous Administration's fault but wasn't the chant in 2001,"Don't blame the previous President for the problems that you face now that YOU are in office"?
    If so,Barack Hussein Obama needs to stop blaming people for the woes he is having on HIS watch and start to come up with more palatable ideas to try and get Congress and the voters to accept.
    Did you notice how the Economy was starting to rebound in December of 2008 and it grew for almost a year. Now it is back sliding, can't blame Bush for the turn around now. Some day the liberals will actually have to take responsibility for something.

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    Quote Originally Posted by doughesson View Post
    Congress got their annual pay raise.Wonder how they can afford that while claiming that COLA raises for SSI beneficiaries would be too expensive?
    Whatever plan that gets passed needs to have wording that removes Congress' healthcare plans and subjects THEM to the the plan as passed by them and signed into law by the President.
    THEN,they might actually come up with some useful legislation. If it's good enough for the People,why isn't it good enough for Congress?
    Whatever they do they will take their already failing government programs, add another and have one more mass of bureaucracy driving up the cost of health care. If you really believe that anything the government does will drive down cost I have a nice bridge for that leads into some prime swamp land for you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    If you really believe that anything the government does will drive down cost I have a nice bridge for that leads into some prime swamp land for you.
    Already bought one but the police told me and Uncle Jed that we couldn't charge a toll to cross it.

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    Well I don't think anybody knows what it is like to be president until they get into office and find out just how difficult the job can really be. Either way you're damn by one side or the other, sometimes for things you have no control over.

    As for healthcare reform, a certain place where it is a tad bit warmer has a better chance of freezing over before anything will be done. And even if something is done nobody will be happy with it.

    Oh there will be plenty of blame to go around and some will claim credit for things that might benefit the public.

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    Quote Originally Posted by doughesson View Post
    It might be a previous Administration's fault but wasn't the chant in 2001,"Don't blame the previous President for the problems that you face now that YOU are in office"?
    If so,Barack Hussein Obama needs to stop blaming people for the woes he is having on HIS watch and start to come up with more palatable ideas to try and get Congress and the voters to accept.
    Considering the Bush's predecessor left him a surplus and balanced budget those were valid claims. Obama inherited a disaster from Bush.

    BTW, that didn't stop Bush from blaming Clinton for the deficit as late as July 2008.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

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    Quote Originally Posted by doughesson View Post
    Already bought one but the police told me and Uncle Jed that we couldn't charge a toll to cross it.
    I'm trying to see how having the private sector raising rates almost 40% is any better than government run health care.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    Yes, if my employer gives me health insurance it is a tax deduction for the company. It does not count against my salary so I pay no taxes on it. So, in my case, my Policy cost $3000, the company pays 80%. This company makes enough money that the tax savings for them is roughly 50%, so the policy essentially cost the company $1200 per year. Now if that benefit was removed and I had to pay for it all, at the 43% tax rate, I would need to make $4,290 more in my pay to break even.

    But I also get a $5,250 tuition reimbursement as well. And many other untaxed benefits like - Gym membership cost, reduced cost on the products they sell, Discounts on products and services like cellular service, insurance, gym memberships, and computers. So by your logic, all of my benefits are paid for by the tax payer at large.

    The problem it that people have forgotten what insurance is all about. Insurance protects you against major illnesses and injuries. Insurance is not a health care plan. A health care plan is developed between the patient and the doctor. When one picks a health insurance plan they pick one that meets their needs and level of acceptable risk. Some people are fine with $1,000 deductible, and as such, pay a lower premium. What has happened is people have gotten to the point that they don't accept the normal risk. They want office visits paid for and drugs covered. The added coverage adds to the cost.

    The liberals in this country have said that health care cost are out of control and not everyone can afford the high cost of health care. To fix the high cost we will change how we pay for it. Therein lies the basic problem, changing the way you pay for something does not change how much it cost. Adding government to the mix just adds more administrative cost with no better health care. In NYS, I'm not sure if this is true across the country, we have 23 different programs for public assisted health care. That is 23 repetitive agencies with the same administrative cost times 23. I know at the federal level we have medicaid, medicare, and SCHIPP. Plus we have all of the insurance programs for the VA and federal workers. Multiple layers of redundant administrative cost. Its a waste. Combine all of those systems into one system and cut cost; you know, the way private industry does it.

    So NO my benefit is not paid for by the taxpayer anymore than any of the other millions of incentives and social engineering projects that go on with tax dollars.
    I have to laugh when some on here like to point fingers at those Commie Pinko Socialist Canadians. Here, if your employer gives you a gym membership, pays for extra health care such as drug prescriptions, eyeglasses, transit passes, it is a taxable benefit and you pay taxes on that benefit. In the USA, land of no govt interference, capitalism, laissez faire, it isn't. Hell you have govt health insurance now, just twice or more expensive than anywhere else in the world.

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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    I'm trying to see how having the private sector raising rates almost 40% is any better than government run health care.
    Because government run healthcare will do nothing to slow or stop that actual cost of care delivered.

    I can't trust the government to actually pay for their current obligations, so why should I trust them to be able to pay for and provide for healthcare. The track record of financially paying for VA care, Indian Health Service care, Medicare, and Medicaid is not exactly that great - through many administrations - and they want to make it nation for everyone? Please excuse my lack of trust and faith in the matter.
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    Considering the Bush's predecessor left him a surplus and balanced budget those were valid claims. Obama inherited a disaster from Bush.

    BTW, that didn't stop Bush from blaming Clinton for the deficit as late as July 2008.
    And once again you fail to remember that there have now been 3 budgets under Democratic "control" of Congress each of which has added over a trillion dollars to our deficit and debt.

    Also remember that it was a Republican congress, acting in concert with a Democratic administration that got a balanced budget with deficit reduction measures enacted - IT WAS NOT THE SOLE ACTION OF President Clinton. Then, under President Bush they just went all stupid and f@cked things up again. Once again, deficit spending under Democrats = good, under Republicans = bad. Love the double standard and hypocracy of the ideologues.

    I know, I know.....all the libs ever say is that it will take a while to correct the ills of George W. Bush, I just want a specific answer as to when that will be. Eventually you have to take responsibility for your own actions - something liberals/progressives are loathe to do.
    "Too many people spend money they haven't earned, to buy things they don't want, to impress people they don't like." Will Rogers

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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    Considering the Bush's predecessor left him a surplus and balanced budget those were valid claims. Obama inherited a disaster from Bush.

    BTW, that didn't stop Bush from blaming Clinton for the deficit as late as July 2008.
    And the economy was starting to recover at the end of the Bush Term beginning of Obama term. During his term the economy has gone south again. Time to stop the blame game and take responsibility.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BryanLoader View Post
    I have to laugh when some on here like to point fingers at those Commie Pinko Socialist Canadians. Here, if your employer gives you a gym membership, pays for extra health care such as drug prescriptions, eyeglasses, transit passes, it is a taxable benefit and you pay taxes on that benefit. In the USA, land of no govt interference, capitalism, laissez faire, it isn't. Hell you have govt health insurance now, just twice or more expensive than anywhere else in the world.
    See the issue is that the cost of health-care is going up. Putting in a government run system will do nothing to the cost except add more administrative overhead. Out in California one insurance company is going to raise rates 40%. Why are they raising the rates?

    Money in = Money Out - Profits. Profits account for around 5%. This means that people are using the insurance more. Used to be health insurance was a means to protect against catastrophic illness and injury. Routine visits and checkups were out of pocket. Then along came the HMO and now everyone wants their insurance protection to be their health care plan. Used to be an office visit would cost me $40, no paperwork, no insurance claims nothing. Now I pay $15 for an office visit. I also pay a higher premium to cover the cost of the office visit.

    Used to be if people got the sniffles they waited it out and let it cure itself. Now they get a runny nose and run to the doctor. Got a hangnail? Go to the doctor. many things that used to be handled or fixed in the home are now taken to the doctors office. I've had cuts that people have told me to go see the doctor. NO!!! Wrap it, bandage it, put some antibiotic ointment on it, and let it heal. People run to the doctor way to fast these days. That drives up the cost of heath care. Want to reduce the cost? Start charging more for co-pays.

    The other issue is the people who get their heath insurance for free from the government. They have no problem driving up the cost by going to the ER because they have the sniffles. Those who pay nothing for their health care are the biggest abusers and the biggest problem.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DaSharkie View Post
    And once again you fail to remember that there have now been 3 budgets under Democratic "control" of Congress each of which has added over a trillion dollars to our deficit and debt.
    After having an $8T dollar hole blown in the economy, filling it is a little more difficult than cleaning up a spill on aisle four.

    Quote Originally Posted by DaSharkie View Post
    Also remember that it was a Republican congress, acting in concert with a Democratic administration that got a balanced budget with deficit reduction measures enacted - IT WAS NOT THE SOLE ACTION OF President Clinton. Then, under President Bush they just went all stupid and f@cked things up again. Once again, deficit spending under Democrats = good, under Republicans = bad. Love the double standard and hypocracy of the ideologues.
    Given the profligate spending that occurred during Bush's administration two possibilities exist. One is that Clinton kept the potential profligate spenders in the GOP congress in check. Or that GOP's are only fiscal conservatives when someone else has their hands on the purse strings. Take your pick.

    Quote Originally Posted by DaSharkie View Post
    I know, I know.....all the libs ever say is that it will take a while to correct the ills of George W. Bush, I just want a specific answer as to when that will be. Eventually you have to take responsibility for your own actions - something liberals/progressives are loathe to do.
    I'm thinking at least five to six years. That precludes an outside influence like a spike in energy costs or a terrorist attack that puts a dent in the economy.

    Next easy question.
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    And we thought Jimmy Boy was bad.......
    Last edited by CaptOldTimer; 07-08-2011 at 02:53 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    After having an $8T dollar hole blown in the economy, filling it is a little more difficult than cleaning up a spill on aisle four.
    One that the Dems were as much a part of as the Republicans.

    Yet the Dems are now in power and are finding more adn more programs to fund. There are many places to cut spending, yet the politicians have no political will or intestinal fortitude to do it. Could have saved $2,000,000,000 by not doing cars for clunkers. Could save billions annually by cutting COPS, FIRE Act, and SAFER grants. Could save billions annually by cutting farm subsidies. Could save billions by cutting tax cuts for home buyers. It all adds up, yet the politicians - in both parties - don't want to touch it.

    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    Given the profligate spending that occurred during Bush's administration two possibilities exist. One is that Clinton kept the potential profligate spenders in the GOP congress in check. Or that GOP's are only fiscal conservatives when someone else has their hands on the purse strings. Take your pick.
    Or the Republicans just got drunk with power and turned outright stupid. Now, the Dems are just continuing to do the exact same thing they chastised Republicans for doing and are going to get a lot of arses handed to them in Noevember.

    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    I'm thinking at least five to six years. That precludes an outside influence like a spike in energy costs or a terrorist attack that puts a dent in the economy.
    Well, you have 3 budgets passed under Democratic "control" of Congress, have a fourth coming up this yerar (with a record 1.6 trillion in deficit spending), so that means next year you better hope things get better being that it will be the fifth year of Democratic "control" of the budget.

    Nothing will change, regardless of who is in power and our nation is in for a huge financial problem. On top of huge deficits and debts, we have unfunded obligations that are going to explode over the next 30 years that include Social Security, and ballooning Medicaid and Medicare. These will result in massive taxation increases and program cuts that could be limited if they acted now, instead of being reactionary.
    "Too many people spend money they haven't earned, to buy things they don't want, to impress people they don't like." Will Rogers

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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    Given the profligate spending that occurred during Bush's administration two possibilities exist. One is that Clinton kept the potential profligate spenders in the GOP congress in check. Or that GOP's are only fiscal conservatives when someone else has their hands on the purse strings. Take your pick.
    What Clinton did was ride the Wave of the good economy that had been set up for him. In addition, he reduced the Military by 1/3, that is a huge savings. He was able to reduce the size of the Military because Reagan had won the cold war. Also, there were increase in technology that allowed for quicker and more precise strikes when needed. Spending went up while Clinton was in office, he set up those who followed him for failure by putting NAFTA in place. NAFTA cost this country dearly in terms of lost jobs and lost income.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DaSharkie View Post
    One that the Dems were as much a part of as the Republicans.

    Yet the Dems are now in power and are finding more adn more programs to fund. There are many places to cut spending, yet the politicians have no political will or intestinal fortitude to do it. Could have saved $2,000,000,000 by not doing cars for clunkers. Could save billions annually by cutting COPS, FIRE Act, and SAFER grants. Could save billions annually by cutting farm subsidies. Could save billions by cutting tax cuts for home buyers. It all adds up, yet the politicians - in both parties - don't want to touch it.



    Or the Republicans just got drunk with power and turned outright stupid. Now, the Dems are just continuing to do the exact same thing they chastised Republicans for doing and are going to get a lot of arses handed to them in Noevember.



    Well, you have 3 budgets passed under Democratic "control" of Congress, have a fourth coming up this yerar (with a record 1.6 trillion in deficit spending), so that means next year you better hope things get better being that it will be the fifth year of Democratic "control" of the budget.

    Nothing will change, regardless of who is in power and our nation is in for a huge financial problem. On top of huge deficits and debts, we have unfunded obligations that are going to explode over the next 30 years that include Social Security, and ballooning Medicaid and Medicare. These will result in massive taxation increases and program cuts that could be limited if they acted now, instead of being reactionary.
    It's funny in NY right now. The governor is trying to make cuts, and every swinging special interest is running ads as to why the cuts are bad.

    He wants to close a bunch of State Parks; activist and citizens have come out of the woodwork on this one. Let's close a bunch of prisons and consolidate them. The Union screams because they will lose jobs. Increase Tuition; can't do that says SUNY. We are getting bombarded these days, in the end no cuts will be made.

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    Quote Originally Posted by doughesson View Post
    Does that mean we are going to have to pay for Louisiana,Tennessee,Mississippi,parts of Kentucky and other states all over again or is Barack Hussein Obama showing his ignorance of American history?
    Do we have the option to return it?
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