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  1. #1
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    Default The issue that nobody will address...

    Should homeschoolers be allowed into firefighting?

    There. I said it. And trust me... I have an opinion, but I wanted to see what others think.

    You have to look at it one of 2 ways. 1'st, a "fair playing field" is a good idea, dont get me wrong... but its definitely not for everyone. We should figure out who gets fair treatment and who doesnt. Thats all. Trust me. Ive seen what happens when things fall apart!

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    What does where someone go their education have to do with being a firefighter? It really doesn't matter if we are we talking volunteer or carreer, here. If there are minimum standards, does the candidate meet them? Do they have a HS diploma or equivilent? Did they pass the entrance exam? Why would an FD discriminate against a home-schooled candidate if they meet the quals?
    Last edited by DFDCar1; 02-23-2010 at 02:16 PM.
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    Do "homeschoolers" get the same high school diploma that everyone else does? Said another way, does the diploma that a homeschooler receives carry the same weight that the diploma from your local high school? If so, its a non-issue.

    Get however many college-hours the department you want to work for requires and hop in the game in the same manner as any other applicant.
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    I'm just saying...

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    Thumbs up Smart and easy to pick on

    Had a firefighter/paramedic who worked for us who was homeschooled. Far as I could tell he was as smart if not smarter than many other public school graduates. Other than lacking some basic social skills learned in school, he was a good firefighter. And the home school jokes are endless. Trust me I'd love to have more as the ammunition is plentiful. Of course if your a PC FD, then you're probably mini-puking in your mouth right now! Oh well, I love my job!

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    Well if you listen to Nozzlehead and a couple of others they will tell you that education is not important in the fire service.

    Having said that. In NYS to home school a child you must still register them in the district and then you must provide a curriculum plan. They are supposed to have the same level of education.

    Now, I think home schooling is horrible idea because the kids will lack social interaction with people of other walks of life. The first time they are confronted by someone outside of the protected world they grew up in they won't be able to function.

    Bottom line, sure they should, you will just have to give them some extra nurturing to get them up to speed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DFDCar1 View Post
    What does where someone go their education have to do with being a firefighter? It really doesn't matter if we are we talking volunteer or carreer, here. If there are minimum standards, does the candidate meet them? Do they have a HS diploma or equivilent? Did they pass the entrance exam? Why would an FD discriminate against a home-schooled candidate if they meet the quals?
    That first sentence struck me on this thread in particular. Read it closely.. I've seen your writing and know this is a one off....

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    WTF do I care where/how someone received their education as long as they do their job proficiently??????
    "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparky626 View Post
    Should homeschoolers be allowed into firefighting?

    There. I said it. And trust me... I have an opinion, but I wanted to see what others think.

    You have to look at it one of 2 ways. 1'st, a "fair playing field" is a good idea, dont get me wrong... but its definitely not for everyone. We should figure out who gets fair treatment and who doesnt. Thats all. Trust me. Ive seen what happens when things fall apart!
    I don't think this is the rampant issue that you make it out to be. This is the first I'm hearing about it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FWDbuff View Post
    WTF do I care where/how someone received their education as long as they do their job proficiently??????
    So it doesn't matter what there past experience is as long as they do the job and do it well. Is that correct?

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    Since home-schoolers to to surpass their publicly schooled counterparts in a lot of academic standards, we should ask:

    Should publicly schooled people be allowed into firefighting ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    Well if you listen to Nozzlehead and a couple of others they will tell you that education is not important in the fire service.

    Having said that. In NYS to home school a child you must still register them in the district and then you must provide a curriculum plan. They are supposed to have the same level of education.

    Now, I think home schooling is horrible idea because the kids will lack social interaction with people of other walks of life. The first time they are confronted by someone outside of the protected world they grew up in they won't be able to function.

    Bottom line, sure they should, you will just have to give them some extra nurturing to get them up to speed.
    Holy crap I am agreeing with this guy.

    Only downfall I see from home schooled kids is the Social interaction. Not education. I worked with a home schooled guy he was good at what he did no problems with social interaction. But he is rare compared to the other home schooled people I have met.

    With that said there are some public schools that are creating the same problem. I watch CNN a few months back. It was dealing with the ban on dodgeball in school. Then went as far as going to a school that banned touching. No hug, hand fives, hand shakes, no touching at all. Because that leads to kids getting hurt. If you think about how that could mess them up as adults. If this tread catches on I feel are country as a whole is in trouble. Could you only image someone that grew up that way working in EMS? Scary thought if you ask me.

    Quote Originally Posted by yjbrody64 View Post
    I don't think this is the rampant issue that you make it out to be. This is the first I'm hearing about it.
    I found this odd cause this thought has crossed my mind before.
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    Quote Originally Posted by popknot View Post
    Since home-schoolers to to surpass their publicly schooled counterparts in a lot of academic standards, we should ask:

    Should publicly schooled people be allowed into firefighting ?

    Its not a matter of academics if it was. Should we only let people fight fires that are MD's?

    It is the social aspect.
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    Home school students follow a standard curriculum and come out of home school with what's equivalent to a diploma. If you allow people with a GED, I don't see the problem with someone that was home schooled.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparky626 View Post
    Should homeschoolers be allowed into firefighting?

    There. I said it. And trust me... I have an opinion, but I wanted to see what others think.

    You have to look at it one of 2 ways. 1'st, a "fair playing field" is a good idea, dont get me wrong... but its definitely not for everyone. We should figure out who gets fair treatment and who doesnt. Thats all. Trust me. Ive seen what happens when things fall apart!

    Number #1: I don't think you can measure a person by education background alone. I think you have to measure them against what they do, i.e. performance.

    Number #2: I don't understand by the term "playing field". A diploma is a diploma. But you are correct that Homeschool is not for everyone.

    Number #3: I don't like the suggestion of "we should figure out who gets fair treatment and who doesn't." How are we going to do this, but more importantly, what is the purpose? Who is going to decide that someone is not as good or should not get a fair opportunity?

    Number #4: You say that you have seen what happens when things fall apart. Well I am certain that many of us can state that. But again... what does this have to do this? I have seen things fall apart without regard to how someone received their education. Are you suggesting that just because someone was homeschooled, they will automatically screw up?

    Let me turn this around on you sir. What if one day someone decides that everyone with brown eyes cannot be considered for some opportunites. In a misguided moment, many people that are very qualified, that have a passion, or possess talent adequate to perform the job are cast out. This is not only discrimination, it is against what our society is based on.

    What if I tell you that I will not consider you for a job in my city because I believe that you are a bigot. I would be justified, wouldn't I? You have made it clear that you believe people who were home schooled are less qualified than yourself and not worthy of the same opportunities.

    I do agree, as some have suggested, that some individuals who are home schooled might not develop the "people skills" or the ability to function within some situations around alot of people. But I can say the same thing about people that attended public schools. So I do not believe this is a reliable gauge to consider their qualifications.

    What is your opinion of people who obtain higher education by the internet? Isn't that somewhat the same thing as home school? Many people do it trying to better themselves and their job opportunities. They do that at home or work, so isn't it still.... self study? Is that person's "rights" any less than anyone elses?

    The purpose of making fun of people who were home schooled is just as immature as making fun of people with disabilities or women with blonde hair. What is that about? Could it be it makes someone feel better about himself and their self-awareness that they may have some little issue that isn't perfect?

    As I said, measure someone as to what they do, and not pre-judge a group of people because they might be different than yourself. They tried that in Nazi Germany and we all know how that worked out.

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    Who cares what kind of education you have. If you can pass the entry exam and physical qualifications you should be allowed in .
    Now as to those that say the child may grow to be socially challenged, if they cannot function with "other people" then they will be booted out before their probation is up. Before everyone gets upset about other people I mean YOU. You are different than everyone else.
    You may have someone that passed high school bywith a C- average. They may beso quick to learn firefighting that their lack of formal education really does not matter, does it?
    By the same token, you can also have someone who went to college and has a hard time working the discharge on your engine. They only excel at cleaning the engine after the call. There, the education does not matter, does it?
    The ideal candidate should be a HS grad ( or equiv) good shape and a willingness to learn.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparky626 View Post
    We should figure out who gets fair treatment and who doesnt.
    If you have to figure that out, then it's not fair treatment, I'm just saying...

    Edit: I think that the reason that nobody will address this issue is that no one cares very much.


    Quote Originally Posted by Catch22
    Home school students follow a standard curriculum and come out of home school with what's equivalent to a diploma.
    Some homeschoolers do graduate with a diploma. It depends on your state and school affiliation whether you get a diploma or GED.
    Last edited by upstater; 02-23-2010 at 04:46 PM.
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    You can develop social interaction even if you home school. The only problem exists when the children are isolated from the outside world 24/7.

    If the actual home schooling incorporates public areas, museums, libraries, and so forth you get some social interaction. I know some areas where several families home school together to get better social interaction.

    After "school" activities can still exist and greatly increase the social skills of kids. Church activities, sport programs, boy/girl scouts, volunteering...

    Even playing with the other kids in the neighborhood helps develop social skills.

    Home School kids aren't always the anti-social shut-ins that people like to make them out to be.
    "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin

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    Why not? They are probably getting a better education than some of these crappy big city public schools. I think the school system in the city I work in is rated in the top 10 worst in the country. I'd rather take someone that was home schooled.

    Also just because they were home schooled doesn't mean that they automatically have bad social skills. You can argue that they can't handle a situation as good? Well how about the kid in a public school that joins a gang or commits a crime when he has a problem?

    It all depends on the person. Not where they got their education.

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    I don't worship the state so I have no problem with homeschooling.

    Move to China if you want to live in an authoritarian society.
    Logic and proportion have fallen sloppy dead.

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    I really don't understand the issue? Why not test entrants to the level you wish for them to possess as a minimum? This is the whole education debate. Instead of requiring a piece of paper saying their educated, use a valid and fair test to make them prove it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    That first sentence struck me on this thread in particular. Read it closely.. I've seen your writing and know this is a one off....
    More worried about getting through these damn NWS Conference Calls and weather forecasts, and more importantly getting out of town Thursday AM on a long-awaited vacation!
    Last edited by DFDCar1; 02-23-2010 at 05:43 PM.
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    I went back and looked at all of "Sparky's" previous posts. Besides one or two comments on various threads, the only threads that he's really engaged in are two anti-homeschool threads that he started. He's obviously got some latent dislike of homeschooling, which he's entitled to, but he's just trolling the forums looking for either support or to stir trouble. DO NOT FEED THE TROLL!
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    Quote Originally Posted by DFDCar1 View Post
    More worried about getting through these damn NWS Conference Calls and weather forecasts, and more importantly getting out of town Thursday AM on a long-awaited vacation!
    Rumor has it you are looking at 2 to 4 feet by the end of the weekend; neighbor. Snowing like crazy as we speak and I have to go to Albany tonight!!!! No snow all winter, we will get our quota in one week.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DFDCar1 View Post
    I went back and looked at all of "Sparky's" previous posts. Besides one or two comments on various threads, the only threads that he's really engaged in are two anti-homeschool threads that he started. He's obviously got some latent dislike of homeschooling, which he's entitled to, but he's just trolling the forums looking for either support or to stir trouble. DO NOT FEED THE TROLL!
    Could be he had a bad experience with someone home schooled. One bad apple doesn't spoil the whole bunch.

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