02-24-2010, 04:56 PM #1
- Join Date
- Mar 2008
- Long time no Sea
How! Do you write for a 'used' vehicle?
This might sound a little backwards, but I've pretty much decided to try and replace an old converted Army 6 x6 tanker. But I also want it to have some pumper capabilities. I mean I want to be able to be able to hook up to a hydrant with both a 5" and 2.5 in" and have both 2.5" and 1 & 3/4" fire streams.
I know this sounds more like a pumper, but since I have a 1972 'converted' Army tanker, I read in the PG that replacement of these older trucks is a priority. And I need to stack the deck here.
So within the project, do i request it like this.
"Brownville VFD is seeking funding for a new or used NFPA 1901 compliant Tanker, with some pump capabilities."
Or do I ask right out for a "late model used Tanker that is compliant to NFPA 1901." and say the maximum I can allow for the project is $187,500.
Gotta remember I only have 20 calls a year, but do share a zipcode with a tier 1 critical infrastructure 3 miles away.
I keep trying to work this out in my mind, but am having trouble with asking for both new or used in the same line.
I would prefer a new pumper but think my odds would be better in replacing a converted 1972 tanker vs a 1983 Smeal Pumper.
Any ideas would be appreciated.
you can email me at email@example.com if you want. I kinda want to have it ready for peer review at Tampa.
02-24-2010, 05:03 PM #2
Well, first things first...remember that "Used" and "New" are a part of your application drop down selection. You need to pick which one you are applying for before you even get a chance to contradict yourself in the narrative.
What is your benefit for applying used? Is it a financial decision? You can always apply for a Tanker with a pump as long as it has <750gpm rating which would still allow you to pump from a hydrant. Applying for an Engine gives you much more leeway with regards to pump capabilities, and water on board can be 10,000 gallons; AFG makes no separation in that aspect.
02-24-2010, 05:04 PM #3
- Join Date
- May 2000
- SW MO
I haven't been awarded one, but I've asked for a used a couple of times. When you put in the information you'll have to use a check-box that says new or used on it.
Based on the amount you listed (I realize it may or may not be an actual total), why would you not look new? I've seen a slew of tankers out there under that amount. Besides, I haven't see a whole lot out there for used tankers (been looking) that are late-model.
Even with the 750 pump limitation, you can still get an LDH intake, you just have to spec one, which shouldn't be a problem if you're looking at a PTO pump. It shouldn't even be a major deal if you're looking at an engine-driven pump, especially if it's a larger one. All they have to do is put in the piping.
I'm looking at a tanker for this year's project that I intend on having a large intake and an LDH discharge (along with a larger tank-to-pump connection). I still plan on keeping with the pump requirements, but I want the ability to pump it off through LDH if we need to.
02-24-2010, 06:11 PM #4
- Join Date
- May 2006
- Osborn MO
You could of bought a brand new 2009 KW from Deep South at winter fire school for $150K didn't have the LDH fitting but I doubt that would add a lot to the cost of one. They may correct me Jim, but I bet our 2 resident guru's would discourage you from applying for used, I understand the thinking, been there done that.
02-24-2010, 07:54 PM #5
- Join Date
- Jan 2005
Probably the biggest issue with buying used is what there is today that meets all of your needs will not be there a year from now. A sales rep or even another department will not hold onto the vehicle on the possibility a department will win an AFG grant to buy the vehicle.
Even though there are cases where buying used would be appropriate I would opt to go for a new vehicle. Warranties are better, there will be cost savings in regards to maintenance, typically better fuel economy etc.
If that is an actual figure for Jim, I'm pretty sure he can find a new vehicle meeting his requirements for that price. He's not that far off from the max. of $200K allowed any ways.
02-25-2010, 10:01 AM #6
- Join Date
- Oct 2005
- Golden City 1 hour south of fort smith
In my unprofessional opinion. It makes more sense to ask for new unless your talking about a used pumper costing under $100,000 and thats all you can possibly afford. Plus thers plenty of them around. This would be a option for a small rural dept with a budget lets say under $20,000. They couldn't afford the match on a new $180,000 pumper but could for like a $70,000 pumper in good shape.
02-25-2010, 10:36 AM #7
- Join Date
- May 2007
Decent modern used tankers are rare items (diesel/auto side dumps). Most tankers are purchased by rural FD and they are run for 20+ years. If a 10yr old unit is for sale there is a reason. And you likely don't want to be part of the answer.
Request as needed for a solution. The limit on tankers is quite low in my opinion. I'd game it by asking for $ for a tanker pumper and enough $ to do the job right. Something like $200000 for 2000/1000 or $25000 for 3000/1000.
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