1. #1
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    109

    Default Sutphen LED headlights

    Our new Sutphen came with LED headlights (not HID/Xenon) and boy do they make a difference. There is a night and day difference in what you can see at night with these. They look nice, and are in the regular headlight housing - nothing special to get them in. They look to be a direct replacement for the standard halogen headlights. We took it out in both snowy and foggy conditions without any issue and night time driving is vastly improved... can finally see where you are going!!! These lights do not blind oncoming drivers and throw the most light I have ever seen on a fire apparatus. I have pictures if you guys want to see. I asked about the warranty on them and it was 4 years.
    I know Pierce offers an HID light, but a piece of fire apparatus is not a good application for that type of light. They are a bit temperamental and need to be taken care of... they just don't have a long life. You can't even run them with an alternating headlight set up since they would blow out... they would have to constantly fire up and shut down.

  2. #2
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    498

    Default

    How much extra were the LED's when you ordered your truck?

  3. #3
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    St. Louis area
    Posts
    101

    Default

    Spartan offers them too.

  4. #4
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    32

    Default

    93 Cobra, if you would learn what your competitors offer, it would make you a better salesman. LED headlights are offered by the big chassis producers that actually have some volume - Pierce,Spartan and E-One (Sutphen was intentionally left out). All you have to offer is Sutphen info, in the spirit of full disclosure, do you work for the factory or a dealer?

  5. #5
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    109

    Default

    We knew we needed something different as the standard headlights just don't cut it anymore. We liked the HID lights that you see on most cars but didn't want that since it is just not suited for fir apparatus. We are very, very happy with these LED lights.
    I haven't seen these on other trucks yet, but I have seen that aftermarket HID set from bright lights and I didn't like it.

    Captainchaos - I work for the fire department, and this is the truck we have spent so much time spec'ing out. I have put quite a bit of time into it and I am just passing along what I have found. In the process, we also found out what Smeal, Pierce, Toyne, and Rosenbauer had to offer

    Here are pictures of the LED headlights in our new truck:




    This shows you the difference. LED on the left, and the standard halogen on the right.
    Last edited by 93Cobra; 03-03-2010 at 08:36 AM.

  6. #6
    Forum Member
    Rescue101's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Bridgton,Me USA
    Posts
    8,162

    Default

    Guess I'm a LITTLE confused here. "Regular headlights don't cut it anymore",On WHAT technical info are you basing this statement? Or is it conjecture on your part? I've been involved in transportation ALL of my life and professionally for over thirty five years. HID you can have,nice light but VERY expensive to fix when they break. LED technology is just NOW getting to the point where it is bright enough to be CERTIFIED for highway use. I would hazard a guess that 85-90% of ALL the vehicles on the highways TODAY are using "Technology that doesn't cut it anymore" so I'm going to throw the BS flag on this one. How much experience do YOU have speccing Apparatus? 1 rig? 6 months? 5 yrs? . I've got no beef with Sutphen, I have some very close friends that work there and they build a FINE Aerial product. But in terms of Hi technology,they aren't at the TOP of the pinnacle. That's OK by me, I like the older stuff that WORKS when you need it to. But you should be careful how you fling information(without proper supporting documents)around on a WORLDWIDE Fire forum,Capisce?

  7. #7
    Forum Member
    FWDbuff's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Pee-Ayy!
    Posts
    7,411

    Default

    Regular headlights will also melt the snow/ice that you are driving directly into.
    "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

  8. #8
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    238

    Default

    I'm sure there is some real test data out there comparing the "standard" Halogen headlights vs. the new, expensive LED headlights. I would like to see it to determine if it's worth switching out the halogen headlights to the new LED's. Just shinning them on a closed bay door is not enough for me!

    Cobra: If you had entitled your thread as simply "LED Headlights" instead of contributing them to Sutphen, you may have not drawn so much fire!

  9. #9
    Forum Member
    Rescue101's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Bridgton,Me USA
    Posts
    8,162

    Default

    OH for the love of Gawd Buff,let him do his own research. Don't give away ALL the trade secrets! I can see great at night too,just turn on the brow light,hehe
    Last edited by Rescue101; 03-02-2010 at 11:51 AM.

  10. #10
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    211

    Default

    Gotta admit, by the photo's alone, ithey look like a great improvement. I, for one, did not know they were available yet.

  11. #11
    Forum Member
    pasobuff's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Loverly upstate NY
    Posts
    1,734

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FWDbuff View Post
    Regular headlights will also melt the snow/ice that you are driving directly into.
    They will also melt the reflective tape on turnout gear if you pile coats against the lamp......

  12. #12
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    SW Missouri
    Posts
    1,156

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by pasobuff View Post
    They will also melt the reflective tape on turnout gear if you pile coats against the lamp......
    Oh really?????

  13. #13
    Forum Member
    pasobuff's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Loverly upstate NY
    Posts
    1,734

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by rm1524 View Post
    Oh really?????
    Umm...yeah...but don't ask me how I know!

  14. #14
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    109

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Rescue101 View Post
    Guess I'm a LITTLE confused here. "Regular headlights don't cut it anymore",On WHAT technical info are you basing this statement? Or is it conjecture on your part? I've been involved in transportation ALL of my life and professionally for over thirty five years. HID you can have,nice light but VERY expensive to fix when they break. LED technology is just NOW getting to the point where it is bright enough to be CERTIFIED for highway use. I would hazard a guess that 85-90% of ALL the vehicles on the highways TODAY are using "Technology that doesn't cut it anymore" so I'm going to throw the BS flag on this one. How much experience do YOU have speccing Apparatus? 1 rig? 6 months? 5 yrs? . I've got no beef with Sutphen, I have some very close friends that work there and they build a FINE Aerial product. But in terms of Hi technology,they aren't at the TOP of the pinnacle. That's OK by me, I like the older stuff that WORKS when you need it to. But you should be careful how you fling information(without proper supporting documents)around on a WORLDWIDE Fire forum,Capisce?
    When I say that today's lights don't cut it anymore, I mean exactly that. The standard halogens do not provide much light for fire apparatus in night time driving. I have experienced this in my 10 years of service in both rural and urban settings. I could drive with the high beams on and oncoming drivers would never know. These lights make our night time driving much safer as we can now see everything - without blinding oncoming traffic.
    Yes, HID are VERY expensive to fix and they quite often fail. I added an HID set up to my personal vehicle and it is very finicky. I have not blown a bulb yet, but I take care of them and make sure that they only come on for night time driving. It is funny because I have a buddy that bought a new Pierce that has the HID set up in it and they have already blown set number two in that truck after having it only a few months.
    These LED headlights are obviously DOT approved and great for a fire truck. I recommend to everyone that they get these in whatever truck they order... you will be very, very happy with them!
    As far as supporting info, here is what the light manufacturer says:
    current draw is 2.7A
    lights make 1500 raw lumens
    high beams are 850 lumens
    low beams are 850 lumens
    The difference in the high and low beam bulbs is the diameter of the focusing sphere in the center. The bigger sphere is for focusing the high beam and the smaller sphere is for focusing the low beam.

  15. #15
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Roch
    Posts
    135

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Rescue101 View Post
    Guess I'm a LITTLE confused here. "Regular headlights don't cut it anymore",On WHAT technical info are you basing this statement?

    Didn't you know that the dark is darker than it was 30 years ago?
    The opinions expressed in this post are well-reasoned and insightful. Needless to say, they are not the opinions of the government that I work for.

  16. #16
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    109

    Smile

    Quote Originally Posted by upstater View Post
    Didn't you know that the dark is darker than it was 30 years ago?
    And the lights from 30 years ago were much dimmer

  17. #17
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Rural Iowa
    Posts
    3,106

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 93Cobra View Post
    When I say that today's lights don't cut it anymore, I mean exactly that. The standard halogens do not provide much light for fire apparatus in night time driving. ...
    Dang I didn't get that memo. Was that part of Y2K deal or was it Jan 1 this year? Or part of the Global Warming/Climate change/2008 election?

  18. #18
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    British Columbia
    Posts
    450

    Default

    I could drive with the high beams on and oncoming drivers would never know. These lights make our night time driving much safer as we can now see everything - without blinding oncoming traffic.
    And how do you know you're not blinding oncoming traffic? Because they didn't flash their headlights at you?

    Yes, HID are VERY expensive to fix and they quite often fail.
    I'm on my second vehicle with HID headlights spanning nearly seven years and haven't had one fail yet. Maybe they're better quality and factory, not aftermarket like yours.

    I'd like to see how these LED headlights perform in the fog. If they are anything like LED flashlights in smoke and fog, forget it, you can have them.

  19. #19
    Forum Member
    FIREMECH1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    HUSKER LAND
    Posts
    2,425

    Default

    The only thing I would like to see, is Cobra proving me wrong.

    Those headlights on your Sutphen are not LED's, far from it. They are projector HID's, and nothing else.

    I can't make out the manufacturer, but the model number is either 2500 or 3500, hard to tell either way.

    Give me the manufacturer and model number, and I can bet they are not LED's.

    Almost all LED headlights have more than one light emitting diode, both for low and high beams. I seriously doubt that they would need 4 of them, if each light can do as you said. The pic you posted only showed one set of lights working, and not all 4. Even if they have moving focal spheres, then all 4 would be working.

    Ball is in your court, prove me wrong.

    FM1

    PS: I have projector HID's on my Cavalier, and while not cheap, they are 7 years old, and rock solid.
    I'm the one Fire and Rescue calls, when they need to be Rescued.

    Quote Originally Posted by EastKyFF
    "Firemens gets antsies. Theys wants to goes to fires. Sometimeses they haves to waits."

  20. #20
    Forum Member
    FWDbuff's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Pee-Ayy!
    Posts
    7,411

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 93Cobra View Post
    When I say that today's lights don't cut it anymore, I mean exactly that. The standard halogens do not provide much light for fire apparatus in night time driving. I have experienced this in my 10 years of service in both rural and urban settings.
    Thats funny, in my 18 (give or take one or two) years of driving fire apparatus in both rural and urban settings, I believe that standard halogens are more than adequate.
    "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

  21. #21
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    109

    Default

    Here is the link for these lights that I found:
    http://www.jwspeaker.com/catalog/for...odel_8800.html

    I am surprised that most of you are happy with the standard halogens. I have never heard of anyone that was actually happy with them.

  22. #22
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Easton,Pa
    Posts
    368

    Default

    They are model 8800 LED headlamps manufactured by the JW Speaker Company in Germantown, WI.

  23. #23
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Northeast Coast
    Posts
    3,867

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 93Cobra View Post
    Here is the link for these lights that I found:
    http://www.jwspeaker.com/catalog/for...odel_8800.html

    I am surprised that most of you are happy with the standard halogens. I have never heard of anyone that was actually happy with them.
    Our new Spartan chassis and American LaFrance Eagle both have decent headlamps compared to our older apparatus. Our 99 HME is the worst, for some reason when adjusted properly they just have no illumination power, to the point you must travel below the speed limit on dark streets for fear of out running them.

    Most of us probably don't have a big issue with halogen since it's all we've had and we don't know no bettah!

  24. #24
    Forum Member
    Rescue101's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Bridgton,Me USA
    Posts
    8,162

    Default

    I stand by my previous statements as Confirmable FACT and Cobra has provided NO technical data to the contrary.
    Fact one, A MAJORITY of ALL vehicles(80% or better) in operation TODAY have Halogen headlights.
    Fact 2. Like it or NOT,LED technology, at least insofar as HEADLIGHTS,is NEW and only RECENTLY certified for use on US highways.
    Fact three,PROPERLY adjusted headlights REGARDLESS of type,BY THE STANDARD must have the same range and pattern/focus as stated in the standard. Now I could care less about all this bullschit. If you want to run LED's knock yourself out. I AM stating they are not the Messiah of all lighting.Since my Shop is a electrical specialty shop(Automotive) I've got a fair idea of what works and what doesn't. LED's are great for certain applications and I believe this WILL extend into the headlight market as well. I just don't believe we're there YET.And as Buff sated,they don't work for schit in heavy SNOW. T.C.

  25. #25
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    British Columbia
    Posts
    450

    Default

    I usually receive complaints that the standard sealed beam headlights in fire apparatus are not bright enough. We run either Bosch or Hella H4 halogen in all the rigs. Proper headlight alignment never hurts either.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Streamlight Survivior LED
    By 37truck in forum Fireground Tactics
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 01-28-2007, 11:51 PM
  2. Survivor LED
    By mtrjt1 in forum Firefighters Forum
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 11-18-2006, 12:23 AM
  3. Your Dept. Apparatus
    By firedude3316 in forum Fire Explorer & Jr. Firefighting
    Replies: 39
    Last Post: 06-06-2005, 02:50 PM
  4. Which Led Light Is Brighter!!!!!!!!!
    By firefighter9 in forum Volunteer Forum
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: 05-09-2005, 05:44 PM
  5. any big city explorers
    By expvol in forum Fire Explorer & Jr. Firefighting
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 04-05-2004, 07:49 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts

Log in

Click here to log in or register