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  1. #1
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    Default Straight stick ladder truck; fog or straight tip?

    Group,

    I'm trying to keep this post as neutral as possible, as it will be used for justification. For those that have operated in a ladder company, especially a straight stick, do you have a straight tip in place or a fog nozzle on the pipe?

    There are some that feel a fog nozzle is beneficial, in the event the stick needs to be used for a rescue, the fog nozzle can be used to protect the victim and or rescuers above. Others find this to be a ridiculous concept, and that the focus should be made on making the grab versus flowing water; get up, grab the vic, get down.

    Please weigh in on this topic, and know that your feedback is very valuable. Also keep in mind, these ladder trucks have a pump and tank water. Oh yeah, also, DON'T SHOOT THE MESSENGER!!


  2. #2
    Forum Member TruckSixFF's Avatar
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    I am more for a stait on the stick. It is much better for defensive operations, gives you more reach and penetration to really "pound the fire" (sorry that sounded a little dirty) You can reach the seat of the fire eaiser with a strait tip. My truck company has a fog tip in the engineers compartment that can be screwed onto the stick to replace the strait tip incase the need ever arose.
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  3. #3
    Forum Member FWDbuff's Avatar
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    Even if the argument of "protecting rescuers or victims" had any merit (because the Truck Company is going to center their activities on getting them OUT, not flowing water) the smooth bore is going to flow more water and k/d any fire threatening victims or rescuers in a more rapid, efficient military manner than the sissy fog nozzles.
    "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

  4. #4
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    straight truck = no pump no tank and no pre piped waterway. Less maintainence and allows the ladder to be used for rescue or getting to the roof easier without worrying about the waterway. Plus in the winter no worry about it freezing. As far as nozzles depends on the situation.

  5. #5
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    For fire attack smooth bore. Just watch the videos of so many fog streams from ladders not coming close to hitting the fire because either the wind or convection currents break the stream all apart.

    For exposure cooling, or vapor cloud control a fog nozzle is a better choice.
    “The person who risks nothing, does nothing, has nothing, is nothing, and becomes nothing. He may avoid suffering and sorrow, but he simply cannot learn and feel and change and grow and love and live.” Leo F. Buscaglia

    This place gets weirder and weirder every day...

  6. #6
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    id rather a smooth bore since if we are going to use most of the time it would be for putting water on the fire, but I'm with Fyredup that Id rather a fog if protecting exposures.

  7. #7
    B Shifter rjtoc2's Avatar
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    About three (3) years ago, my department took the fog nozzles off of the ladder pipe and put the smooth bores on. We did this for the reasons already mentioned in the forum.

    Each Truck Co. now carries the fog nozzle in the compartment where the straight tips used to sit. We merely flip-flopped them.
    rjtoc2

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  8. #8
    MembersZone Subscriber JHR1985's Avatar
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    if your doing a rescue, what difference does the nozzle make?

    The ladder should be in rescue mode with the nozzle at least 1 section below the tip and not flowing water
    The Box. You opened it. We Came...

    "You'll take my life but I'll take your's too. You'll fire musket but I'll run you through. So when your waiting for the next attack, you'll better understand there's no turn back."

  9. #9
    Forum Member johnny46's Avatar
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    Seeing as a fog nozzle is used for life in the case of decon and property conservation in the case of exposure protection, it should be on there.

    The use of a bore tip is generally defensive. It means there's time to change the nozzles.

    They do have threads, you know.
    Logic and proportion have fallen sloppy dead.

  10. #10
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    We mount only smoothbore on all master streams engines and our tower. We carry fog nozzle for the vapor cloud dispersement only. Pretty expensive tool for such a limited focus, but...

    We use the smoothbores on exposures and would note that the heavier application of water allows more water to reach the exposure for cooling purposes. Putting the stream on the roof or along the eave line allows the water to run down effectively cooling the surface. Fog pattern may cover more surface area at once but with far less actual water on a given surface area. In defensive/exposure ops the heat will eat through fog pattern carrying much for the water aways as steam before it arrives on the exposed surfaces. The downside is not peeling siding or punching windows which can cause problems. Much easier to do from a bucket than on the ground using control cables or even the electric controls from the turntable.

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    I would agree with it should be no where near the tip of the ladder. If you can pin it a section down. If I were specking a new truck it would have to be able to be pinned in a rescue mode or I would strongly consider not having it at all. Many cities that do ladder rescue on a regular basis don't have waterways on the ladder at all Boston, Chicago, FDNY

    IF you got to have one use a smooth bore

  12. #12
    Forum Member jlcooke3's Avatar
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    My vote is for smooth bore stacked tips on the ladder pipe. Not only because of the superior penetration of the smooth bore over the fog tip but because of the monetary savings you will see. Smooth bores do not require electrical motors to vary the pattern, that is one less electrical motor, controls and wiring that has to be installed and maintained. Fog nozzles are generally more expensive than stacked tips and require regular maintenance. Put stack tips on the pipe and keep a fog in the compartment. Overall its a cheaper and better option.

  13. #13
    Forum Member Rescue101's Avatar
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    Platform has an electrically operated Fog on it to start with a set of stack tips in the Bucket. Unplug one plug and change it out. Best of both worlds,T.C.
    Last edited by Rescue101; 03-08-2010 at 06:01 PM.

  14. #14
    Forum Member johnny46's Avatar
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    Nozzles can be changed out. There's these things called threads. Lefty loosey, righty tighty.
    Logic and proportion have fallen sloppy dead.

  15. #15
    Forum Member TrashTrampoline's Avatar
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    We have a pre piped dry truck, we run smooth bore for many of the reason already mentioned.

  16. #16
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnny46 View Post
    Nozzles can be changed out. There's these things called threads. Lefty loosey, righty tighty.
    Exactly right, well excpet for the fact that the smoothbore should be mounted with the fog tip available for change out.

    I attempted to use a fog nozzle on straight stream on a structure fire one night for a blitz attack. Granted, it was on an engine on the top mount deluge gun. From 75 feet away the stream simply would not make it to the fire. The wind blew it away. We switched to a smoothbore and kicked some serious ***. Fog nozzle? Sure in the compartment. Smoothbore? Damn right, on the gun where it belongs.
    “The person who risks nothing, does nothing, has nothing, is nothing, and becomes nothing. He may avoid suffering and sorrow, but he simply cannot learn and feel and change and grow and love and live.” Leo F. Buscaglia

    This place gets weirder and weirder every day...

  17. #17
    Forum Member johnny46's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    I attempted to use a fog nozzle on straight stream on a structure fire one night for a blitz attack. Granted, it was on an engine on the top mount deluge gun. From 75 feet away the stream simply would not make it to the fire. The wind blew it away. We switched to a smoothbore and kicked some serious ***. Fog nozzle? Sure in the compartment. Smoothbore? Damn right, on the gun where it belongs.
    That's why, as you're setting up for the blitz, one guy puts the bore tip on.

    Same could be said for the fog, in the case of needing it.

    The deck gun has the fog mounted with the stack tips just a foot away for changing out. The fog is shorter (our gun is pointed straight up for the little magnet that keeps the buzzer from going off). But also, if we're needing it for perviously stated purpose, it's ready right away. And it reinforces the philosophy of life then property.
    Logic and proportion have fallen sloppy dead.

  18. #18
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    Smoothbore. Fog strips the bubbles out of the CAFS.

  19. #19
    MembersZone Subscriber N2DFire's Avatar
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    Everyone has pretty much hit on all the points I would make - so I'll just sum up and try to bring them all together.

    1 - You really need both available as they each have their places. (FyredUp 'splained it best I think)

    2 - Look at what types of fire fighting / suppression you will most likely do most often & put that nozzle on the waterway & the other in a compartment. (I tend to agree with nameless on my choice here)

    3 - You can't do effective rescue work with the waterway pinned to the tip. Period. It's hard enough to talk John Q Public out onto the tip of a stick when it's right there in front of them - stick a big honkin nozzle & waterway in between them and it will take far to long to get them on the stick. Plus you're weight limits are severely restricted on MOST devices while flowing water so the whole "protecting during rescue" is out the window. You have to pick - are you going to squirt water or grab victims - hopefully a No-brainier.

    These are of course my opinions. While I hope they help; they are in fact worth exactly what you paid for 'em.

    Best of luck with your decision.
    Take Care - Stay Safe - God Bless
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  20. #20
    Forum Member johnny46's Avatar
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    The tip doesn't affect where the waterway is pinned on any truck I've worked on or driven.
    Logic and proportion have fallen sloppy dead.

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