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    I don't actively prohibit ours from taking them to school. But I do tell them that if I find out it is causing a problem, the pager is going to end up somewhere they can't reach. They do not leave school for calls; we don't allow it and neither does the school so that is a non-issue right there.

    Why do they want to have it then? Probably the same reason I used to have mine with me in high school. Keeping up on what was going on in town when I wasn't in class, and for when there incidents at the school. It is totally harmless and not distracting anyone from anything. Its not going off in the middle of math class here.

    And for what its worth, it makes them happy and causes no harm, then whats the big deal.
    Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

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    I'll keep score...Troll, 1; the rest of you, 0.

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    It is more a function of locality and not a broad sweeping policy statement. There are a couple of places around here that simply don't have any guys available during the day. We have several bedroom communities that have only farmers and retired people around during the day. I know of one department that counts on the young men showing up for day time calls.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    It is more a function of locality and not a broad sweeping policy statement. There are a couple of places around here that simply don't have any guys available during the day. We have several bedroom communities that have only farmers and retired people around during the day. I know of one department that counts on the young men showing up for day time calls.
    Any "fire department" that relies on children (and that is exactly what a high school student is... a child) to fight fires and answer calls isn't a fire department. It is a lawsuit waiting to happen.
    Last edited by CaptainGonzo; 03-05-2010 at 11:50 AM. Reason: spelling correction.
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
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    Quote Originally Posted by BULL321 View Post
    Why not? I think that its a great, idea. While we're at it, why not just carry a radio and park an engine outside of the building, so that you don't have to drive your own pov to the scene. The hell with school, being an Jr. is a lot more important. So you flunk out of school, no big deal. Responding to fires, where you can do much of anything is a whole lot more important than your education.
    You laugh. http://www.post53.org/

    This is a town in my state. This explorer post IS the ambulance. Drivers, EMT's, radio dispatchers, everything. And they've been credited as one of the best in world. Their operation could be a model for other agencies run by "competent" adults.
    Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nmfire View Post
    You laugh. http://www.post53.org/

    This is a town in my state. This explorer post IS the ambulance. Drivers, EMT's, radio dispatchers, everything. And they've been credited as one of the best in world. Their operation could be a model for other agencies run by "competent" adults.
    Brother nmfire...

    They are more than likely the exception rather than the rule.
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

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    I have problems with it. Juniors don't need pagers and don't need to be operating at fire scenes!

    Stay in school and get an education! Have fun with the girls or boys!
    Stay Safe and Well Out There....

    Always remembering 9-11-2001 and 343+ Brothers

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    I'm with the NOs.

    Post 53 is an exception to all of this. They have a good relation with the school district and their response aream and have existed for a long time.

    Think of a pager as a cell phone going off in school. I find out quite annoying to hear them going off all day and everyone texting in class, let alone a Junior/Explorer sititng next to me while I take a test and his pager goes off with an EMS run in the city that he can't go to anyways. Same goes with a cell phone not on vibrate that goes off while I'm take a test. A I did in high school, I would tell the person to shut the piece of ***** off and make a big deal about it purposely so the teacher would take the dang thing away from the other student. I always left my phone in my book bag and I still even do in college. Nothing annoys me more than disrespect towards the teacher for trying to do his job teaching or instructing.

    Have the kids focus on school when they're in school. There will be PLENTY of fires and EMS runs outsie of school hours tha they can listen or respond to. And they will have a long time left after they're out of high school to respond and listen to runs. Missing a couple runs in the 7 or 8 hours they're in school won't kill them.

    For the record... If I lived in Darien, I would have probably tried to be a member of Post 53 and would've tried to be one of them leaving class for runs.
    Firefighter/EMT
    My words stated here do not necessarily point towards organizations which I am affiliated with.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainGonzo View Post
    Any "fire department" that relies on children (and that is exactly what a high school student is... a child) to fight fires and answer calls isn't a fire department. It is a lawsuit waiting to happen.
    When people are treated like children they will act like children. Around here some people grow up a lot faster. We have 14 year olds out plowing the fields, working the farm, and working the family business. I do agree, we also have the children that sit back and wait for everything to be handed to them on a silver platter. I see these clueless children out protesting education cuts. Time for them to grow up and realize nothing in life is free. YOU want the better education then YOU pay for it.

    Our idiot commissioner that runs the prisons for young adults. We have a school here for these thugs that are as young as 12 years old. That moron calls them children as well. Trust me, they are not children.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptOldTimer View Post
    I have problems with it. Juniors don't need pagers and don't need to be operating at fire scenes!

    Stay in school and get an education! Have fun with the girls or boys!
    Why not treat like any other extra curricular activity?

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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptOldTimer View Post
    I have problems with it. Juniors don't need pagers and don't need to be operating at fire scenes!
    Thankfully, your opinion is yours and not that of most other places that have junior/explorer programs.

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainGonzo View Post
    Brother nmfire...

    They are more than likely the exception rather than the rule.
    Oh I agree completely. Very much an exception. They're a unique operation for sure. But its a sure fire way to get someone's panties in a bunch any time it is brought up.
    Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    Why not treat like any other extra curricular activity?
    That's exactly my view on it. There should be a GPA requirement, and the teachers/principal MUST be okay with it.

    I don't see it as any different than someone who is gone for 3 days of school a week at an FBLA conference, or football, or cheer leading. It wouldn't work everywhere obviously, but on a smaller department with few runs, I don't see a problem with it.

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    Ok, fine. Good luck to you and the children that are on your fire depts. I pray and hope that It works out for you. Best of wishes.
    Stay Safe
    Bull


    “Guys if you get hurt, we’ll help you. If you get sick we’ll treat you. If you want to bitch and moan, then all I can tell you is to flick the sand out of your slit, suck it up or get the hell out!”
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  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    When people are treated like children they will act like children. Around here some people grow up a lot faster. We have 14 year olds out plowing the fields, working the farm, and working the family business. I do agree, we also have the children that sit back and wait for everything to be handed to them on a silver platter. I see these clueless children out protesting education cuts. Time for them to grow up and realize nothing in life is free. YOU want the better education then YOU pay for it.

    Our idiot commissioner that runs the prisons for young adults. We have a school here for these thugs that are as young as 12 years old. That moron calls them children as well. Trust me, they are not children.
    What the hell does this post have to do with jrs having pagers at school.? We are not talking about farming, running a family business, education cuts or prison. You sir have derailed and should not be allowed to speak for the next five minutes.
    Stay Safe
    Bull


    “Guys if you get hurt, we’ll help you. If you get sick we’ll treat you. If you want to bitch and moan, then all I can tell you is to flick the sand out of your slit, suck it up or get the hell out!”
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    Nothing in life is so exhilarating as to be shot at without result.
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    Quote Originally Posted by nmfire View Post
    Thankfully, your opinion is yours and not that of most other places that have junior/explorer programs.


    Oh I agree completely. Very much an exception. They're a unique operation for sure. But its a sure fire way to get someone's panties in a bunch any time it is brought up.






    It is and the fact we don't have Juniors, we have an explorer post, but they do not respond to calls for service, unless they are with and under control of their advisor.

    We had Juniors when I was associated with a volunteer dept 40 odd years back, but they didn't have pagers then and relied on the pole siren to be notified. IF the teacher wanted them to leave the class they did, if not they remained in school. All they could do would help take up and or assist a operator getting kinks out of the hose, plus standby with the air bottles if needed.

    The law in Virginia is pretty straight about children operating on a fire scene and that is the one we have to abide by.
    Stay Safe and Well Out There....

    Always remembering 9-11-2001 and 343+ Brothers

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    Our department bases jr ff rules off of state laws. If the state child labor services says they can do it (they have a manual on junior firefighters), we examin it to see if we think they should be doing it and go from there. That being said, leaving school for fire calls is not permitted by the state. If they are carrying them in school, they are supposed to be off and in there locker/book bag.
    Matt G.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptOldTimer View Post
    It is and the fact we don't have Juniors, we have an explorer post, but they do not respond to calls for service, unless they are with and under control of their advisor.

    We had Juniors when I was associated with a volunteer dept 40 odd years back, but they didn't have pagers then and relied on the pole siren to be notified. IF the teacher wanted them to leave the class they did, if not they remained in school. All they could do would help take up and or assist a operator getting kinks out of the hose, plus standby with the air bottles if needed.

    The law in Virginia is pretty straight about children operating on a fire scene and that is the one we have to abide by.

    It doesn't matter what the title is (explorers vs juniors). It is irrelevant. It is also quite irrelevant what they did 150 years ago when Betsy kicked a lantern over. Its 2010 now.

    Your department chooses not to let them respond to calls. May others do and very successfully and within the laws of their state. So once again, you're entitled to your opinion and I'm quite glad it is not one that is shared widely.
    Last edited by nmfire; 03-05-2010 at 02:28 PM.
    Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nmfire View Post
    It doesn't matter what the title is (explorers vs juniors). It is irrelevant. It is also quite irrelevant what they did 150 years ago when Betsy kicked a lantern over. Its 2010 now.

    Your department chooses not to let them respond to calls. May others do and very successfully and within the laws of their state. So once again, you're entitled to your opinion and I'm quite glad it is not one that is shared widely.



    As a real matter of FACT, My opinion is shared within the Commonwealth. I have to work by those laws of this Commonwealth and no other.

    150 years ago we ran horse drawn apparatus. 70 or so years before that, the department operated with hand drawn equipment, hose reels and tub pumps and the like.

    Today we run a very progressive career department, without the need of juniors and or explorers being a hindrance on the scene. Your department may have the justification and need for having them, we don't and we operate just fine.

    Just a different way that each department does business.
    Stay Safe and Well Out There....

    Always remembering 9-11-2001 and 343+ Brothers

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    We run a very progressive department as well. And we do not NEED juniors/explorers for anything. We CHOOSE to have them. Its a great service to the youth of our community. It provides a gateway to the fire service for more kids than I can count who are now career firefighters, and chief officers. It provides an opportunity for those firefighters that wish to participate in a meaningful program and get added training in the process.

    People ask why I do what I do for ours and its pretty simple. Its one of the very few things we can do that provides a constantly positive, visible, and productive outcome constantly. It takes a lot of my time but every bit is worth it.
    Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BULL321 View Post
    What the hell does this post have to do with jrs having pagers at school.? We are not talking about farming, running a family business, education cuts or prison. You sir have derailed and should not be allowed to speak for the next five minutes.
    Hey hey hey, yo yo yo, donctha know it's da Crow's MO?
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    Why not treat like any other extra curricular activity?
    Trolls, 2...the rest of you, 0.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BULL321 View Post
    What the hell does this post have to do with jrs having pagers at school.? We are not talking about farming, running a family business, education cuts or prison. You sir have derailed and should not be allowed to speak for the next five minutes.
    It means that a lot of 14 year olds are far more mature than some of the 40 year olds on these boards.

    FYI, The definition of a child is someone between birth and puberty. Since children reach puberty at 10 and 11 those older than that are not children.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptOldTimer View Post
    Today we run a very progressive career department, without the need of juniors and or explorers being a hindrance on the scene. Your department may have the justification and need for having them, we don't and we operate just fine.

    Just a different way that each department does business.
    Obviously career departments operate totally different from volunteer departments. In the career world you pay people to come help, in the volunteer world you beg them to come help.

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    Here is the State of NC guidelines for Junior Firefighters

    In an effort to encourage Junior Firefighter and Rescue Responder programs, the NC Fire and Rescue Commission established this voluntary Junior Member Standard to offer guidance to fire and rescue departments in developing and administering programs. While designed to take into account recognized programs nationwide, the Commission recommends that departments research additional requirements that may be implemented between editions of this standard. Overview Junior members shall be separated into two groups: (1) minors 16 and 17 years of age; and (2) minors 14 and 15 years of age. Fire Departments and Rescue Squads should make sure their By-Laws, Constitution, and Charter reflect the proper authority to have junior members. General Restrictions This standard does not address minors under the age of 14 (fourteen). In general, the following guidelines should be used to restrict the activities of Junior Members. When not specifically listed or discussed, all activities should be limited to those considered non-emergency.
    • Junior Members shall not be substituted for trained personnel.
    • Junior Members shall be equipped with appropriate personal protective equipment to accomplish the assigned tasks
    • Junior Members who ride on apparatus or other department vehicles shall be seated and must wear a seat belt.
    • Junior Members shall not drive department vehicles.
    • Junior Members shall not enter or perform ventilation procedures on a burning structure.
    • Junior Members shall not use any tools or gloves on energized electrical equipment.
    • During events, the Junior members shall be clearly marked in order to easily identify them from a distance. This may be accomplished by different methods including different colored helmets or helmet striping, different colored coats, or special vests.
    In addition, specific guidelines are provided based on age groups.

    Guidelines for Minors 16 and 17 Years of Age Minors who are 16 and 17 MAY:
    • Ride as a passenger in the cab of a fire truck or in a rescue vehicle. The Junior shall be seated with his/her seat belt securely fastened;
    • Attend and take part in supervised training.
    • Participate in department functions within the rehabilitation area of an emergency scene. This could include setting up the engine or light truck, assisting in water supply efforts, handling of wood and other technical rescue materials, and other support functions, which do not expose the Junior member to hazardous areas or atmospheres.
    • Pick up hoses or other materials and clean up at the emergency scene after it has been declared safe by the Incident Commander.
    • Enter a structure only when accompanied by an adult responder once the structure has been determined safe by the Incident Commander and not considered immediately dangerous to life or health (IDLH).
    • Perform search and rescue activities, other than structural firefighting, high level, other areas considered dangerous or IDLH.
    • Operate a fire pump or equipment located outside the danger zone at the direction of the Incident Commander.
    • Use pressurized hose lines, if properly trained, under the direction of an Incident Commander and out of the danger area.

    Minors who are 16 and 17 MAY NOT:
    • Perform fire suppression involving structures or vehicles.
    • Perform high level, confined space, collapse rescue, or any rescue operation that places them in danger or areas of IDLH.
    • Drive fire department or rescue vehicles.
    • Perform firefighting “overhaul” activities (except when the structure has been declared safe by the Incident Commander and then only with an adult firefighter).
    • Respond to a Hazardous Materials events (except for support functions within the cold zone).
    • Participate or assist in any extrication activities at the scene of an accident or emergency (except in the capacity of a support function).
    • Participate in any activities at the scene of an accident or emergency where fire or hazardous materials are involved, unless they are performing support functions from outside the danger area.
    • Participate in actual “ice rescue” activities, but may provide assistance within any designated rehabilitation area or as a support member on dry land only.
    • Direct traffic at the scene of a fire or other emergency.
    • Train on departmental equipment or remove equipment from an apparatus unless under the supervision of an instructor.
    • Youth under 18 years of age who are enrolled in school in Grade 12 or below may not be employed between 11 p.m. and 5 a.m. when there is school for the youth the next day. Sixteen and Seventeen (16/17) year old youths may get the hour restriction waived upon written permission from the parent/guardian and from the youth's principal/designee.
    Youth under 18 years of age who are enrolled in school in Grade 12 or below may respond, in a non-emergency mode, to calls during school hours.


    These are the guidelines which we use at our dept. I recognize and respect that each State is different but this is the rule of thumb in our area. And while we value our Jr members, They are not allowed to leave school during school hours to assist with call. While the State does allow Youth to respond to calls during school hours, we feel that there is/will be plenty for them to do after school hrs and after they graduate. We also feel that while our SOPs are more restrictive than the State's guidelines, it is just another way for them to "pay their dues" before become full members. If they are not willing to follow our SOPs that are in place then they are not ready to join the ranks. In closing since our Jrs. are not allowed responded from school there is no reason for them have have their personal radio's or pagers on while in class.
    Stay Safe
    Bull


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    -WINSTON CHURCHILL

  25. #50
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    Those are very similar to CT's laws, almost identical.
    Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

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