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Thread: Pagers

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by nmfire View Post
    Those are very similar to CT's laws, almost identical.
    Great Minds think alike. Scary ain't?
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    Well, I wouldn't go that far. The state laws were just instituted about 2 years ago. Prior to that, it was a free-for-all. Luckily, our own in-house rules were more than adequate and the state's new laws didn't change much for us.
    Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

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    I just conferred with my other half, who deals a lot with fire service requirements, standards etc......it is his understanding in NYS that a minor MAY join a fire department as a firefighter (as opposed to a Jr or Explorer) - HOWEVER that is up to the AHJ as to whether they will consider that person an employee - and what their requirements for 'hiring' such a person is (age limit etc)....so it is possible to have a minor as a full member of a department.

    That being said, it is my personal opinion that someone still in school should not be carrying a pager, or even a cell phone for that matter (I know my daughter will NOT!).....school is for schooling........

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    Keep in mind that some of these children in school are 17 or 18 years old and very possibly could be serving in the military instead of sitting in class.

    That being said, I can't see encouraging them to carry pagers at school and to allow them to respond from school except in those areas where call rates are so low that it isn't likely they would get a page more than once every other month or so.

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by auxman View Post
    Keep in mind that some of these children in school are 17 or 18 years old and very possibly could be serving in the military instead of sitting in class.

    That being said, I can't see encouraging them to carry pagers at school and to allow them to respond from school except in those areas where call rates are so low that it isn't likely they would get a page more than once every other month or so.
    Currently, Air Force and Navy requires a High School Diploma or GED.

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    Carry a pager in school? sure. As long as it's not real.

    Seriously, either way doesn't really matter to me.

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    While Chenzo and I are on the same department we have differing views on this subject.

    I see absolutlely no reason for juniors, cadets, or whatever you call them to carry pagers while in school. The job of that student is to learn and graduate. There will be plenty of time after school hours and after they graduate to respond to calls.

    But then again the reality is how the FD utilizes their juniors. IF your FD uses them as regular firefighters I could understand why you would want them to respond. I disagree with what you are doing but that is not my business. If they are used as gophers working in the warm or cold zone there is no urgent need for them to respond during school hours.
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    I say give'em all pagers.....


    just take away the cell phones.

    Least you can't text on a pager.
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    Virginia Beach FD

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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    While Chenzo and I are on the same department we have differing views on this subject.
    Yes, but you can ground him until he changes his view.
    IAFF

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    Quote Originally Posted by snowball View Post
    Yes, but you can ground him until he changes his view.
    Oh, only if I could...Unfortunately, or fortunately, he is 20 and out on his own.
    Crazy, but that's how it goes
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    While Chenzo and I are on the same department we have differing views on this subject.

    I see absolutlely no reason for juniors, cadets, or whatever you call them to carry pagers while in school. The job of that student is to learn and graduate. There will be plenty of time after school hours and after they graduate to respond to calls.

    But then again the reality is how the FD utilizes their juniors. IF your FD uses them as regular firefighters I could understand why you would want them to respond. I disagree with what you are doing but that is not my business. If they are used as gophers working in the warm or cold zone there is no urgent need for them to respond during school hours.
    Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that is how I see it playing out in our area. But I see that as a viable option for departments struggling to get members. IF you have 4 fully trained and active firefighters respond, and that is IT, why not have juniors come and help with things in the cold/warm zone, until mutual aid arrives? Then, if the manpower and extra rig/chiefs vehicle/people hauler exists, have someone take them back to the station. If it doesn't, you've got extra hands for cleanup.

    I guess I just don't see the difference between this and, well, an FBLA (Future Business Leaders of America) Club member being gone for days at a time at a mock business conference. They are both helping out with a potentially future career. (Insert football, cheer leading, debate team, academic decathlon, etc etc etc the list goes on and on. Not all of them are future careers, that's why I chose the FBLA reference.)

    It obviously wouldn't work on a department running 5 or 6 calls a day, everyday. But if a call or two is run a month, with no guarantee it will be on a school day, why not?

    Learn and graduate, yes I agree. That's why, like I said, GPA requirements, must be okay'd by the Chief of the department, Chief of the explorer/cadet/junior program, and the principal and administration of the school. It shouldn't just be a "Here junior, here's a pager. To hell with school and your education, you'll show up to every call and damn well like it"
    There of course, would have to be standards.

    We've got enough man power now, and really, it's a null and void point, since I appear to be the only explorer our department will ever have. (If we even still have an explorer program?)
    Last edited by Chenzo; 03-07-2010 at 12:36 AM. Reason: Additions and correction

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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    Oh, only if I could...Unfortunately, or fortunately, he is 20 and out on his own.
    Fortunately. For both our sanity, fortunately.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chenzo View Post
    Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that is how I see it playing out in our area. But I see that as a viable option for departments struggling to get members. IF you have 4 fully trained and active firefighters respond, and that is IT, why not have juniors come and help with things in the cold/warm zone, until mutual aid arrives? Then, if the manpower and extra rig/chiefs vehicle/people hauler exists, have someone take them back to the station. If it doesn't, you've got extra hands for cleanup.

    I guess I just don't see the difference between this and, well, an FBLA (Future Business Leaders of America) Club member being gone for days at a time at a mock business conference. They are both helping out with a potentially future career. (Insert football, cheer leading, debate team, academic decathlon, etc etc etc the list goes on and on. Not all of them are future careers, that's why I chose the FBLA reference.)

    The difference between FBLA and a junior firefighter is you don't run the direct risk of dieing at an FBLA sanctioned event. That is my problem with the entire junior thing. There is no way, NONE, nada that I can justify risking, yet alone killing a junior at a fire.

    It obviously wouldn't work on a department running 5 or 6 calls a day, everyday. But if a call or two is run a month, with no guarantee it will be on a school day, why not?

    Learn and graduate, yes I agree. That's why, like I said, GPA requirements, must be okay'd by the Chief of the department, Chief of the explorer/cadet/junior program, and the principal and administration of the school. It shouldn't just be a "Here junior, here's a pager. To hell with school and your education, you'll show up to every call and damn well like it"
    There of course, would have to be standards.

    We've got enough man power now, and really, it's a null and void point, since I appear to be the only explorer our department will ever have. (If we even still have an explorer program?)
    I believe that if more juniors came forward we would have more. It is the lack of interest that killed the program for now.
    Last edited by FyredUp; 03-07-2010 at 01:56 AM.
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    My department is having very good success with our Junior Fire program and they are issued pagers. In New Jersey at the age of 16 they can go to the Junior Fire Academy and when they turn 18 they get their Firefighter I certification. Our Juniors are used at fire scenes. They are trained to hook up to the fire hydrants, they also work closely with our chief doing Personal Accountability or other small task away from the fire scene. My department runs 600 calls a year and for the kids to be leaving school for calls it would be ridiculous and they would never be at school. We have both pagers and texts sent to our phones. I tell the Juniors to not bring their pagers to school or leave them in their cars because it can be a distraction when they go off 3 or more times a day but they do recieve the texts. While there in school during the week they can respond till 10pm and on non school nights they can respond at all hours. When they turn 18 they becomes full fire fighters but we still stress school comes before the firehouse. If anyone would like a set of my J.R SOG I'll be glad to email you them.
    Stay safe!

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    Quote Originally Posted by pasobuff View Post
    I just conferred with my other half, who deals a lot with fire service requirements, standards etc......it is his understanding in NYS that a minor MAY join a fire department as a firefighter (as opposed to a Jr or Explorer) - HOWEVER that is up to the AHJ as to whether they will consider that person an employee - and what their requirements for 'hiring' such a person is (age limit etc)....so it is possible to have a minor as a full member of a department.

    That being said, it is my personal opinion that someone still in school should not be carrying a pager, or even a cell phone for that matter (I know my daughter will NOT!).....school is for schooling........
    And.... Work is for Working........

    Which brings me to one of my favorite sayings - Do as I say, not as I do....

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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    The difference between FBLA and a junior firefighter is you don't run the direct risk of dieing at an FBLA sanctioned event. That is my problem with the entire junior thing. There is no way, NONE, nada that I can justify risking, yet alone killing a junior at a fire.
    The only problem with that argument is that any person is at risk to die on any given day. Look at the recent bus crash in AZ. Could have easily had been the basketball team on their way to a game.

    We have a couple of farming towns just west of here. I have spoken with the fire coordinator for that county as well as out own county. Both have said had those juniors not responded that they would have lost complete houses. Because they were there and able to help they made saves instead. It is really location dependent.

    And finally, there is no difference between leaving your job and leaving school to go to a call.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    And finally, there is no difference between leaving your job and leaving school to go to a call.
    Trolls, 3...

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    The only problem with that argument is that any person is at risk to die on any given day. Look at the recent bus crash in AZ. Could have easily had been the basketball team on their way to a game.
    leats hope and pray that you don't just drop dead while typing.
    We have a couple of farming towns just west of here. I have spoken with the fire coordinator for that county as well as out own county. Both have said had those juniors not responded that they would have lost complete houses. As oposed to incomplete houses?Because they were there and able to help they made saves instead. Jrs. made saves? Really? Good for them, bad for their dept. It is really location dependent.

    And finally, there is no difference between leaving your job and leaving school to go to a call.Really, no differnece in an adults job and a kids school.
    You sir are something truely speacial
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    Damn it guys, quit quoting numbnuts. Its totally defeating the purpose of having him on my ignore list.
    Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

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    ok, so i just came into this thread. but are yall talking about voice pagers or message writers?

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    WTF is a message writer? Is that what they call alpha pagers in Tennessee?
    Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nmfire View Post
    WTF is a message writer? Is that what they call alpha pagers in Tennessee?
    yea, we go by both names. wasent realy sure which to use.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainGonzo View Post
    Junior firefighters in school need pagers as much as a school of fish needs bicycles....
    I don't think there is any better way to phrase a response than Gonz has.

    There should be absolutely no reason for an explorer to leave school for a fire call. When I was an explorer I had no need to leave school, like someone else said, education is first. There will always be more calls.

    And just because you run 30-70 calls a year does not warrant taking these kids out of school. If you staffing is so bad that you count on explorers to do tasks (some of which may even be allowed under BSA rules) while they should be in school, then shame on you. Maybe you should look at some automatic mutual aid agreements.
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    Quote Originally Posted by RS1606 View Post
    yea, we go by both names. wasent realy sure which to use.
    You are the last person that should be concerned with leaving school; your grammar skills are atrocious.
    "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

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    Quote Originally Posted by FWDbuff View Post
    You are the last person that should be concerned with leaving school; your grammar skills are atrocious.
    and your point is? b/c i realy dont care what you think. its not up to you now is it? so keep your thoughts about me to your self. ok? good, thanks.
    Last edited by RS1606; 03-09-2010 at 03:22 PM.

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