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Thread: Pagers

  1. #61
    Forum Member Chenzo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    While Chenzo and I are on the same department we have differing views on this subject.

    I see absolutlely no reason for juniors, cadets, or whatever you call them to carry pagers while in school. The job of that student is to learn and graduate. There will be plenty of time after school hours and after they graduate to respond to calls.

    But then again the reality is how the FD utilizes their juniors. IF your FD uses them as regular firefighters I could understand why you would want them to respond. I disagree with what you are doing but that is not my business. If they are used as gophers working in the warm or cold zone there is no urgent need for them to respond during school hours.
    Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that is how I see it playing out in our area. But I see that as a viable option for departments struggling to get members. IF you have 4 fully trained and active firefighters respond, and that is IT, why not have juniors come and help with things in the cold/warm zone, until mutual aid arrives? Then, if the manpower and extra rig/chiefs vehicle/people hauler exists, have someone take them back to the station. If it doesn't, you've got extra hands for cleanup.

    I guess I just don't see the difference between this and, well, an FBLA (Future Business Leaders of America) Club member being gone for days at a time at a mock business conference. They are both helping out with a potentially future career. (Insert football, cheer leading, debate team, academic decathlon, etc etc etc the list goes on and on. Not all of them are future careers, that's why I chose the FBLA reference.)

    It obviously wouldn't work on a department running 5 or 6 calls a day, everyday. But if a call or two is run a month, with no guarantee it will be on a school day, why not?

    Learn and graduate, yes I agree. That's why, like I said, GPA requirements, must be okay'd by the Chief of the department, Chief of the explorer/cadet/junior program, and the principal and administration of the school. It shouldn't just be a "Here junior, here's a pager. To hell with school and your education, you'll show up to every call and damn well like it"
    There of course, would have to be standards.

    We've got enough man power now, and really, it's a null and void point, since I appear to be the only explorer our department will ever have. (If we even still have an explorer program?)
    Last edited by Chenzo; 03-06-2010 at 11:36 PM. Reason: Additions and correction


  2. #62
    Forum Member Chenzo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    Oh, only if I could...Unfortunately, or fortunately, he is 20 and out on his own.
    Fortunately. For both our sanity, fortunately.

  3. #63
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chenzo View Post
    Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that is how I see it playing out in our area. But I see that as a viable option for departments struggling to get members. IF you have 4 fully trained and active firefighters respond, and that is IT, why not have juniors come and help with things in the cold/warm zone, until mutual aid arrives? Then, if the manpower and extra rig/chiefs vehicle/people hauler exists, have someone take them back to the station. If it doesn't, you've got extra hands for cleanup.

    I guess I just don't see the difference between this and, well, an FBLA (Future Business Leaders of America) Club member being gone for days at a time at a mock business conference. They are both helping out with a potentially future career. (Insert football, cheer leading, debate team, academic decathlon, etc etc etc the list goes on and on. Not all of them are future careers, that's why I chose the FBLA reference.)

    The difference between FBLA and a junior firefighter is you don't run the direct risk of dieing at an FBLA sanctioned event. That is my problem with the entire junior thing. There is no way, NONE, nada that I can justify risking, yet alone killing a junior at a fire.

    It obviously wouldn't work on a department running 5 or 6 calls a day, everyday. But if a call or two is run a month, with no guarantee it will be on a school day, why not?

    Learn and graduate, yes I agree. That's why, like I said, GPA requirements, must be okay'd by the Chief of the department, Chief of the explorer/cadet/junior program, and the principal and administration of the school. It shouldn't just be a "Here junior, here's a pager. To hell with school and your education, you'll show up to every call and damn well like it"
    There of course, would have to be standards.

    We've got enough man power now, and really, it's a null and void point, since I appear to be the only explorer our department will ever have. (If we even still have an explorer program?)
    I believe that if more juniors came forward we would have more. It is the lack of interest that killed the program for now.
    Last edited by FyredUp; 03-07-2010 at 12:56 AM.
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  4. #64
    Forum Member Ambrose33's Avatar
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    My department is having very good success with our Junior Fire program and they are issued pagers. In New Jersey at the age of 16 they can go to the Junior Fire Academy and when they turn 18 they get their Firefighter I certification. Our Juniors are used at fire scenes. They are trained to hook up to the fire hydrants, they also work closely with our chief doing Personal Accountability or other small task away from the fire scene. My department runs 600 calls a year and for the kids to be leaving school for calls it would be ridiculous and they would never be at school. We have both pagers and texts sent to our phones. I tell the Juniors to not bring their pagers to school or leave them in their cars because it can be a distraction when they go off 3 or more times a day but they do recieve the texts. While there in school during the week they can respond till 10pm and on non school nights they can respond at all hours. When they turn 18 they becomes full fire fighters but we still stress school comes before the firehouse. If anyone would like a set of my J.R SOG I'll be glad to email you them.
    Stay safe!

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by pasobuff View Post
    I just conferred with my other half, who deals a lot with fire service requirements, standards etc......it is his understanding in NYS that a minor MAY join a fire department as a firefighter (as opposed to a Jr or Explorer) - HOWEVER that is up to the AHJ as to whether they will consider that person an employee - and what their requirements for 'hiring' such a person is (age limit etc)....so it is possible to have a minor as a full member of a department.

    That being said, it is my personal opinion that someone still in school should not be carrying a pager, or even a cell phone for that matter (I know my daughter will NOT!).....school is for schooling........
    And.... Work is for Working........

    Which brings me to one of my favorite sayings - Do as I say, not as I do....

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    The difference between FBLA and a junior firefighter is you don't run the direct risk of dieing at an FBLA sanctioned event. That is my problem with the entire junior thing. There is no way, NONE, nada that I can justify risking, yet alone killing a junior at a fire.
    The only problem with that argument is that any person is at risk to die on any given day. Look at the recent bus crash in AZ. Could have easily had been the basketball team on their way to a game.

    We have a couple of farming towns just west of here. I have spoken with the fire coordinator for that county as well as out own county. Both have said had those juniors not responded that they would have lost complete houses. Because they were there and able to help they made saves instead. It is really location dependent.

    And finally, there is no difference between leaving your job and leaving school to go to a call.

  7. #67
    Forum Member ThNozzleman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    And finally, there is no difference between leaving your job and leaving school to go to a call.
    Trolls, 3...

  8. #68
    MembersZone Subscriber BULL321's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    The only problem with that argument is that any person is at risk to die on any given day. Look at the recent bus crash in AZ. Could have easily had been the basketball team on their way to a game.
    leats hope and pray that you don't just drop dead while typing.
    We have a couple of farming towns just west of here. I have spoken with the fire coordinator for that county as well as out own county. Both have said had those juniors not responded that they would have lost complete houses. As oposed to incomplete houses?Because they were there and able to help they made saves instead. Jrs. made saves? Really? Good for them, bad for their dept. It is really location dependent.

    And finally, there is no difference between leaving your job and leaving school to go to a call.Really, no differnece in an adults job and a kids school.
    You sir are something truely speacial
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  9. #69
    Forum Member nmfire's Avatar
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    Damn it guys, quit quoting numbnuts. Its totally defeating the purpose of having him on my ignore list.
    Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

  10. #70
    Forum Member RS1606's Avatar
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    ok, so i just came into this thread. but are yall talking about voice pagers or message writers?

  11. #71
    Forum Member nmfire's Avatar
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    WTF is a message writer? Is that what they call alpha pagers in Tennessee?
    Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

  12. #72
    Forum Member RS1606's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nmfire View Post
    WTF is a message writer? Is that what they call alpha pagers in Tennessee?
    yea, we go by both names. wasent realy sure which to use.

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainGonzo View Post
    Junior firefighters in school need pagers as much as a school of fish needs bicycles....
    I don't think there is any better way to phrase a response than Gonz has.

    There should be absolutely no reason for an explorer to leave school for a fire call. When I was an explorer I had no need to leave school, like someone else said, education is first. There will always be more calls.

    And just because you run 30-70 calls a year does not warrant taking these kids out of school. If you staffing is so bad that you count on explorers to do tasks (some of which may even be allowed under BSA rules) while they should be in school, then shame on you. Maybe you should look at some automatic mutual aid agreements.
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  14. #74
    Forum Member FWDbuff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RS1606 View Post
    yea, we go by both names. wasent realy sure which to use.
    You are the last person that should be concerned with leaving school; your grammar skills are atrocious.
    "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

  15. #75
    Forum Member RS1606's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FWDbuff View Post
    You are the last person that should be concerned with leaving school; your grammar skills are atrocious.
    and your point is? b/c i realy dont care what you think. its not up to you now is it? so keep your thoughts about me to your self. ok? good, thanks.
    Last edited by RS1606; 03-09-2010 at 02:22 PM.

  16. #76
    Forum Member Explorer Asst Chief Fern's Avatar
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    My Explorers may carry their pagers in school, even have them on. The school rules state that they are not allowed, but since the teachers wouldn't dare take them away, it's not a big deal. A lot of the teachers at my school don't mind that we have them anyways. But unless something HUGE has happened, my explorers have NO reason to leave school to go on a call. Our department has mutual aid agreements, so we have plenty of manpower on calls. But like I said, if something very large happens, like Lubrizol blows up, the fire departments would love to have runners and messengers to boss around (basically an explorers job), and they will need A LOT of them, then yes, explorers can leave school. But ONLY for very large calls. And some of my explorers are excited about this rule, except for one thing... we never get big calls like that.

    So basically: Yes, they can have them in school as long as they don't go off every 3 seconds (our pagers aren't that busy, maybe go off twice a day). And no, they can't go on any average call.
    Explorer Assistant Chief Alisha Fern

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    Quote Originally Posted by RS1606 View Post
    and your point is? b/c i realy dont care what you think. its not up to you now is it? so keep your thoughts about me to your self. ok? good, thanks.
    Wow... You're really cool. I want to be like you someday.........

    What a way to represent your department. Grow up, kid.
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  18. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Explorer Asst Chief Fern View Post
    The school rules state that they are not allowed, but since the teachers wouldn't dare take them away, it's not a big deal. A lot of the teachers at my school don't mind that we have them anyways.
    HMMM, in our area I believe the teacher would take them then an FD member would most likely need to go get it. Anyway we do not allow juniors or even an 18 yo to take a pager to school. It defeats the purpose that school is more important for them right now than the FD.

    We let juniors come on calls that are not chemical or involve something as a suicide attempt or something we will know is "really really bad" like the Twinkie in Ghost Busters (some of you may not have a clue what I am talking about there).

    We do have a standing rule, jrs stay in unit they came in until specifically told to do something by IC, do not ask what needs to be done or ask if you can do something. IC has enough to be concerned about initially without having to determine what a junior can and cannot do. Unfortunately some of the jrs that are older and on the verge of becoming a firefighter suffer because of the blanket rule but it is for the best and all of their safety.

    And actually a new member will have the same rules for awhile.

    I am seeing a difference in the jrs today than the jrs. we had 10 years ago. Back then they seemed more attentive. Currently the jrs are attentive but need more overseeing to remain that way. I am not talking interest I am talking more or less an attention span.

  19. #79
    Forum Member FWDbuff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RS1606 View Post
    and your point is? b/c i realy dont care what you think. its not up to you now is it? so keep your thoughts about me to your self. ok? good, thanks.
    You are correct. 100 percent correct. It's not up to me. In reality, I could really care less what you do, when you do it or who you do it with. I was just making an observation based on the topic at hand. I do know one thing- With an attitude like yours, you will have a hard time succeeding in the Fire Service, and that is only if you ever obtain a position. But with your poor grammar skills, you'll blow that opportunity just filling out your application. That I am 100 percent certain of.

    Take a piece of advice from someone who has been there- Leave your pagers at home on school days. Stay in school, do the best of your ability, and aspire for excellence in your academic studies. Not only will you get good grades which can pave your way to college, but it will also prepare you for potential future promotion exams within the Fire Department.
    "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

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    Having read through everyone's thoughts and opinions on this matter I will give my opinion, personally I do not have any problem with any Jr. or Explorer carrying a pager in school just shut it off and stay there. The only time I even thought about having my pager on in school was if I was in the Senior Lounge area which means basically your passing all your classes rather than sitting in a study hall go sit with your friends and talk and relax for a while, I no that was off topic. Anyways your there to learn leave the pager off if you have to have it with you some of the time I left it in my vehicle i honestly did not care what was going on while I was in school.
    Bring them if you must just shut them off.

    Andrew

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