What I've noticed, in many threads, is that there are a few who view the FF world as Black and White, with NO shades of Gray.
For example, what might work in upstate New York won't work in far West Texas. Lets say that you get a large brush fire out in XYZ Texas. XYZ Texas may only have a population of 1,000, with the next nearest town being 30 or more miles away. Seems to me like you just may need those junior firefighters to come help.
A whole lotta grief and hot air could be dispensed with if everyone would realize that there is no such thing as a one-size-fits-all solution.
(BTW, just so you know, there is a town in West Texas, named Mentone, in Loving County. Loving County is 677 square miles, kinda small, area wise, for West Texas. However, the population of the County is...67. Mentone itself? 15. The next nearest town is Pecos, 23 miles away. What works in New York City or LA won't work there. )
Results 81 to 100 of 177
03-10-2010, 01:32 AM #81
03-10-2010, 01:05 PM #82
and by the way, i already have a spot in the next acadamy
03-10-2010, 02:01 PM #83
I don't find it ideal to have to use juniors/explorers/cadets, but I can see where in certain situations in certain places, where it would be necessary. If you don't want to use them, and you have the manpower to not have to use them, then by all means do not use them. But if you're struggling for members, and mutual aid is 15, 20, 30 minutes out, and you need to support manpower, why not use what you have? Don't send them inside. Don't put them in any unnecessary danger, but if you need to use them use them.
I said it before, and I'll say it again. It's situational. Different strokes for different folks. What works for me, may not work for you. etc etc etc.
03-10-2010, 03:52 PM #84
And Kyle (Rfxplr326) does treat explorers and juniors right, him and I both are instructors for the post we were on in high school and teach quite a bit.
And with your meaningless addition of the fact that you are in the next academy, it just proves your immaturity. Congratulations but dont expect anything to be handed to you or respect given to you just because you will be in a future academy. If you remember this, your life will be much easier in the firehouse.------------------------------------
These opinions are mine and do not reflect the opinions of any organizations I am affiliated with.
03-10-2010, 03:56 PM #85
03-10-2010, 03:57 PM #86
- Join Date
- Aug 2005
On this issue there are a few facts that need to be pointed out. And I have hammered on this before. It is insurance. If it is a Boy Scouts Explorer program the FD has, the insurance is covered. If it is a straight Jr program then there are problems with insurance. I once was told that insurance will not cover those Jrs. I have recently found out that in the past month or so that the insurance may cover the Jrs but only once. It is only once because if there is a claim that involved a JRs the insurance company, VFIS is my case, will drop the FD,
We do issue our Jrs pagers. We do not allow them to have them in the school room. They can be left in their backpack or car if they want but they must be off if they are in the backpack. I have been told that there is a school just north of me that will take any sell phone, pager or anything of that sort if it is visible. Jrs that can drive are not to be reckless period, when responding and they will not take a seat of a firefighter. Even then they can only ride in the personnel carrier, not an engine. They do all of the training we do, except hazardous training such as live burn, but even then we try to get them involved a little.
I think someone mentioned respect in an earlier post. Remember, Jrs are their to learn, respect is earned by keeping silent in class, paying attention, and only asking question when it is appropriate. DO NOT think that you can tell the Chief or a senior member what needs to be done. That is disrespectful in so many ways.
Do not be of any illusion that respect is deserved. Too many times younger, and even older, people believe that. Respect is 100% earned and should always be that way.
Fortunately most all our Explorers have earned their respect. It took a few of them some time to learn that lesson, but that is what they are here for, to learn and to become better people and firefighters.
03-11-2010, 01:36 PM #87
03-11-2010, 02:11 PM #88
Pay attention from 0:50 to 1:10."Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."
03-11-2010, 04:39 PM #89
- Join Date
- Sep 2007
03-11-2010, 06:28 PM #90
So my apologies to anyone who misinterpreted my post as "I'm right, you're wrong, go jump off a bridge." That wasn't my intention.
03-11-2010, 07:00 PM #91
- Join Date
- Nov 2006
03-11-2010, 07:46 PM #92
DISCLAIMER: I want all of you young'uns to know that I fully support all Explorer and Junior Firefighter Programs. I myself started as a Junior FF in my own department when I was 16 years old. By the time I was 18, I obtained by Firefighter I certification, and I think less than a week after my 18th b-day, I participated in my first interior attack, backing up the pipeman on a first-in inch and three quarter line in a good residential job. A properly run program, with good adult oversight (sounds like nmfire is doing a great job with his program, we dont always see eye to eye on some things but his program appears to be top-notch) can make some great firefighters. Guys in my own department's junior program have gone on to become career firefighters- (myself included...) We even have one in Philadelphia and one in Kansas City, Mo. We also have one member who graduated with honors from the University of Maryland's Fire Protection Engineer Program.
What I DO NOT support, however, are Juniors leaving school or allowing their grades to plummet while they "hang out" at the fire house. Had I known then what I know now, I would not have spent so much time at the Fire House. Additionally, I wish my parents had more oversight over my activities back then, and knuckled down and watched over me a little more carefully. Don't get me wrong, they weren't bad parents, it's just that their heads were stuck in the sand. I also do NOT support Juniors/Explorers participating in dangerous activities or being inside "hot" zones- anything IDLH, including being downwind of smoke, in collapse zones, in the immediate vicinity of extrications in progress, etc. This includes being on exterior hose lines playing onto or into a fire building. I also do not support blatant violations of Child Labor Laws, which prohibit hours of service for many of you, and also the activities which you can and cannot do. These hours of service are not established to make your life miserable or to hassle you, they are set up to ensure that you have proper rest periods so that you are %100 percent for your job- SCHOOL.
I come on here too often, and see you guys asking us (the older guys) questions in "text speak." Here's a clue: This is the real world. We are men, who have all graduated from High School or College. We have all been "on the job" for a long time, or have volunteered as firefighters, well, quite frankly, longer than you have been alive. This is a real job, with real objectives, and real bad outcomes if the job is not done properly. So give it the respect it deserves. If you have a question, type it out for God's sake. And use proper grammar (sentence structure, punctuation, and spelling, etc.) No 1 wantz to c u tipe liek this. One time a few years back, one smart assed kid on here said to me "It's just firefighting, you don't need good english or grammar skills." Well, he lived in that fantasy, until I reminded him about all of the things that I had to have good writing skills for on a daily basis- equipment checks, manpower reports, alarm room activities, keep up the log books, vacation and time off requests, training and readiness reports, run sheets, Building Inspection reports, violation letters, depositions for court, cause and origin reports, etc etc etc etc etc etc......Remember HIM RFxplr326??????? I don't think we ever heard from him again.
I also come on here and see some of you brag about "what you are allowed to get away with in your program." I don't know if you are telling tall tales, or if that is what your program is seriously allowing you to do- I know one thing though: You are not exempt from getting seriously hurt or killed, and your Department's Administration is not exempt from getting fined by your state's Department of Child Labor and/or their Occupational Safety and Health People. I don't want to see any of you getting hurt.
If you want to be taken seriously, then act seriously. This is not a child's game. I am all for you guys participating in programs, as long as you stick to the rules, keep up your grades, and have fun. But most of all, live your teenage life. Chase after the cheerleaders, go to your Junior and Senior Prom, hang out at the Dairy Queen with your girl on Friday night.....
But above all else, Be SAFE."Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."
03-12-2010, 09:51 AM #93
03-12-2010, 12:04 PM #94
03-13-2010, 02:22 PM #95
- Join Date
- Nov 2006
03-13-2010, 03:10 PM #96
03-13-2010, 09:12 PM #97Stay Safe
“Guys if you get hurt, we’ll help you. If you get sick we’ll treat you. If you want to bitch and moan, then all I can tell you is to flick the sand out of your slit, suck it up or get the hell out!”
- Capt. Marc Cox CFD
Nothing in life is so exhilarating as to be shot at without result.
03-14-2010, 07:41 AM #98
- Join Date
- Feb 2010
I see exactly where you are coming from FWDbuff but you said, What I DO NOT support, however, are Juniors leaving school and my question was about junior firefighters taking their pagers to school, not leaving school.
03-14-2010, 08:41 AM #99
03-14-2010, 01:42 PM #100
When it comes down to my explorers, NO ONE does anything that could endanger themselves-ESPECIALLY if they don't have propper training. As the Asst. Chief, I would feel responsible if any of them got hurt. It's a dangerous job, and we make sure our explorers know that. Some of them join thinking it's "play time" or that they get to "play" with fire. WRONG! It's serious business- whether during trainings, on calls, or even hanging out at the station.
As a teenager, I know what it's like to text friends in "text-speak", but in NO WAY should that be used to talk to professionals like yourselves. It is truly a respect thing, and when I'm your age, I would like explorers and juniors to give me the same amount of respect I give you.
I completely and totally agree that school ALWAYS comes before firefighting. I am not even 36 certified yet, so why do I need to leave schools to go on calls? I am currently in a 2-year EMT-B course at a tech school, and I wouldn't miss class if the world depended on it. Why? Because one day someone's life will be in my hands, and if I don't know what to do because I skipped class that day.... I would be completely responsible. Other than EMS class, I only have two other classes this year (English and chemistry), and although I may not like those classes, I still need to take them and pass them. SCHOOL COMES FIRST.
For the first time ever my explorer post sent a former explorer to be sworn-on to the department. He was one of the best in his 240 class. Why? because he spent time as an explorer. He trained for over a year before starting 240. He knew his stuff. He was prepared. He was dedicated. And now he's got it. Explorer/Cadet/Junior posts are great, as long as they aren't abused. There are rules to everything in life, including explorer posts. They are truly the greatest resource to anyone who plans on becoming a firefighter or EMT. Respect your education, respect the rules, and most importantly, respect the people around you who give you the opportunity to do what you do.Explorer Assistant Chief Alisha Fern
Leadership: The ability to guide, direct, and influence others.
Leadership can be thought of as a capacity to define oneself to others in a way that clarifies and expands a vision of the future.
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