Why register? ...To Enhance Your Experience
+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 45
  1. #1
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Merino Colorado
    Posts
    15

    Default Award Modifications

    I was wondering if anyone that has received a award for SCBA's, found that the award amount is less then what market value is what the best route to take with getting the SCBA in the $5,250 range or getting the award modified to allow for the extra cost? Our Department Runs one type of SCBA and we are only adding to would equipment not replacing equipment so we are stuck with the type of SCBA. We have shopped around but the dealer is the dealer there are no other ones allowed to sell in our area. We are still several thousand out of pocket that we can't afford. Any suggestions?


  2. #2
    MembersZone Subscriber LVFD301's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    3,922

    Default

    Every manufacturer is selling airpacks for under the $5,250.00 a unit.

    If you have a dealer that just won't budge, it is time to change dealers.

    FEMA is not going to give you more.

    I can guarantee whatever your manufacturer is, between all of us we can find you a dealer that will work with you.

    I would tell the dealer you are talking to that you have to bid (which you do) and that you already found a dealer in (Insert area here that is far away) that is willing to work with you on the brand you want.

    Personally, if every other dealer across the country can sell for less, and your dealer has you (he thinks) over a barrel, I would tell him to take a flying leap and deal with someone more honest.

  3. #3
    Forum Member SLY4420's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    1,957

    Default

    Once awarded, you will not receive additional funds. You are required to make the purchase, even if it requires out of pocket expenses.

    $5,250 can be done. I understand the dealer issue but there are more than one manufacturers that will be willing to work with you. Tell your dealer you are going to another manufacturer willing to meet the costs and see if he doesn't change his tune.

  4. #4
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Alum Bank, PA
    Posts
    580

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SLY4420 View Post
    Once awarded, you will not receive additional funds. You are required to make the purchase, even if it requires out of pocket expenses.

    $5,250 can be done. I understand the dealer issue but there are more than one manufacturers that will be willing to work with you. Tell your dealer you are going to another manufacturer willing to meet the costs and see if he doesn't change his tune.
    I wonder what would happen if you contacted the manufacturer and discuss with them the unwillingness of one of their dealers to produce the product for your department that the rest of the country is able to purchase within the funding limits. I would also talk to other manufacturers to find out if they have any type of trade-in incentives to get your department to switch over and use that information against the original manufacturer. You gotta love playing these games

  5. #5
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Way South of the Mason Dixon line
    Posts
    513

    Default

    Sounds like the dealer needs to pay for a vacation. Should be no reason you cannot get a fully loaded pack for $5250, no matter what manufacturer.

  6. #6
    MembersZone Subscriber
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    3,733

    Default

    The unfortunate thing is that they have a monopoly for the area and they know you cannot change SCBA's....looks more like a greedy dealer. Take it to the next level....corporate.

  7. #7
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Long time no Sea
    Posts
    2,253

    Default

    I opened my bids yesterday and frankly was surprised how much excess funds will be available just from the SCBAs.
    i understand if you mentioned in your narrative that you intend to stay with the same manufacturer because of wanting to match your current units, that you would need to stay with them, but didn't you get price quotes to establish your projects costs before submitting the application?
    If you didn't that's OK, but am trying to understand why you were taken by surprise of the costs of the SCBA from the vendor.

  8. #8
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Merino Colorado
    Posts
    15

    Default

    We did get some pricing and we were surprised by the reduction to the $5,250. Every bid but one has came back well over the 5250 price range. Some are came back at like $7,400. But the monopoly is what gets us. It is interesting that everyone is able to get them at the 5250 range and we are out of that area. I don't believe my narrative states that we are going with he same vendor as we already have so we could switch if we were able to change all our packs in a affordable manner. But if they don't come down or there isn't any other option i am not sure how to get around the monopoly or if there is even a way. So I will keep you informed and if anyone knows how to get around the dealer monopoly please let me know

  9. #9
    MembersZone Subscriber
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    SW MO
    Posts
    4,249

    Default

    You sound like you're in a situation we used to be in. Our SCBA brand only allowed one dealer in the area and they had a tendancy to charge list, if not higher. When we got our grant, I found a dealer that was willing to work with us and got us a deal on our packs, and gave me evidence we were indeed being charged and exhorbitant amount for the product.

    Well, long story short, the dealer for our area was livid and made a call to the regional rep. Regional rep made some calls and was told he could come pick up the packs with a full refund on the day the next brand option was there to deliver the replacements. We are still using the packs we ordered originally and I'm supposed to be following up with the regional rep as to why there are so many issues around here with that dealer when I get time to give him a phone call.

    Long story short, the SCBA manufacturers try to protect their fire service dealers. However, there are ways around that. You can go to an industrial dealer and purchase packs, for one. You can also call the regional rep for the manufacturer (or higher) and plead to them.

  10. #10
    Forum Member islandfire03's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    2,551

    Default

    We were awarded SCBA in 07. We found that with certain brands , the dealers came in with bids of 6,500.00 per unit knowing full well that the AFG program was paying 5k per unit. When we asked them to clarify why they were priced at that level, they blew smoke up our a@@ about how their product was so much superior than the competitors and thats what they charged. Well in the end they didn't get the sale because after testing demo units we found their brand to be uncomfortable and not as easy to adapt to in our needs.

    I have also seen that same dealer drop his price to the AFG limit when told they dept was going with another manufacturer. It all depends on the greediness of the dealer . Yes some companies have "exclusive "territories. but there is nothing stopping you from buying from another dealer that will work with you.The advice to contact the manufacturers sales department direct is a good idea.
    They will work with the dealer to get you into their equipment at the AFG set price rather than lose you to another brand.

  11. #11
    Forum Member SLY4420's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    1,957

    Default

    This is at least the fourth year that AFG has held tight to $5,250 for SCBA. No one has had any trouble getting it done.

    If there are 50 dealers (1 per state) for Brand X, I bet you can find at least 1 willing to bend the corporate rules to make a sale.

    Or you can, again, just tell your dealer that you know the price of $5,250 can be met and if he won't do it, he's out of the picture.

  12. #12
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Long time no Sea
    Posts
    2,253

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Catch22 View Post
    You sound like you're in a situation we used to be in. Our SCBA brand only allowed one dealer in the area and they had a tendancy to charge list, if not higher. When we got our grant, I found a dealer that was willing to work with us and got us a deal on our packs, and gave me evidence we were indeed being charged and exhorbitant amount for the product.

    Well, long story short, the dealer for our area was livid and made a call to the regional rep. Regional rep made some calls and was told he could come pick up the packs with a full refund on the day the next brand option was there to deliver the replacements. We are still using the packs we ordered originally and I'm supposed to be following up with the regional rep as to why there are so many issues around here with that dealer when I get time to give him a phone call.

    Long story short, the SCBA manufacturers try to protect their fire service dealers. However, there are ways around that. You can go to an industrial dealer and purchase packs, for one. You can also call the regional rep for the manufacturer (or higher) and plead to them.

    Been a retailer and distributor. Although you are prevented from buying that crosses protected territories. There is technically nothing wrong with YOU traveling to a dealer and picking up the equipment from another dealer in his territory and driving the equipment back to your station.
    Protected territory is one thing, but if the regional representative gets mad and tries to take them away from you, that crosses into the illegal act of 'price fixing'.

    No matter what they say, they still have to service the equipment and honor warranties.

  13. #13
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Central New York
    Posts
    85

    Default

    We just finished a 2008 grant. We started off with the same problem; all the dealers said they couldnít do it. We contacted another manufacturer and then all the sudden they could make a better deal. We ended up with loaded packs, extra bottles, RIT connections, masks with voice amps, and an integrated bailout system. All for $4888. delivered, training included. We ended up with a ton of excess funds to deal with (a good problem to have).

  14. #14
    MembersZone Subscriber
    Join Date
    Feb 2000
    Location
    JAMAICA IOWA U.S.A.
    Posts
    347

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LVFD301 View Post
    Every manufacturer is selling airpacks for under the $5,250.00 a unit.

    If you have a dealer that just won't budge, it is time to change dealers.

    FEMA is not going to give you more.

    I can guarantee whatever your manufacturer is, between all of us we can find you a dealer that will work with you.

    I would tell the dealer you are talking to that you have to bid (which you do) and that you already found a dealer in (Insert area here that is far away) that is willing to work with you on the brand you want.

    Personally, if every other dealer across the country can sell for less, and your dealer has you (he thinks) over a barrel, I would tell him to take a flying leap and deal with someone more honest.

    I'm having problems trying to found a dealer to do some service work,but the company dealers from other area's in state and out will not take the business since it is not in their dealer zone.

  15. #15
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Way South of the Mason Dixon line
    Posts
    513

    Default

    A neighboring dept got bids from two dealers for the same manufacturer. I ask how he done that and he said if you have done business with one of the two manufacturers, you can write to the company or regional rep and get both quotes.

  16. #16
    Forum Member islandfire03's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    2,551

    Talking

    Quote Originally Posted by mtndew21 View Post
    I'm having problems trying to found a dealer to do some service work,but the company dealers from other area's in state and out will not take the business since it is not in their dealer zone.
    wouldn't be scott by chance?

  17. #17
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    441

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mtndew21 View Post
    I'm having problems trying to found a dealer to do some service work,but the company dealers from other area's in state and out will not take the business since it is not in their dealer zone.
    Perhaps it's a two way street and you've had previous dealings with the dealer that they didn't need?

    When in business (and want to stay in business) there are customers you have to politely (or not) tell to go away. Either because the customer can't understand a business HAS to make a profit to stay in business or because life is just to short.

    I don't know if all the SCBA brands have protected territories or not. Some do, same as for HRT, nozzles, gear, many industrial and consumer goods. There is a valid reason. Cut throat price competition is in no ones long term benefit. Particularily in economic times such as the Obama recession where thousands of business folding. We all have fire retailers contacting us that we've never heard of before. Desperate for sale at ANY price. This includes the largest multistate dealer in the USA. If the recession continues long many are going out of business because these guys aren't making PROFITABLE sales.

    So you buy that SCBA (or whatever) bootleg at 5% over the dealers cost and the dealer folds next week. Who is going to maintain it for you? You agreed to function test biannually. They are going to break. You're going to call the AUTHORIZED factory dealer and expect the same service as the FD who treated the dealer fairly? What word do you live in. Ever buy a washing machine at Home Depot or car far away and then take it to the local dealer for warranty. You didn't care about service when you purchased the item why now. Why does he care about your needs now?

    What do you expect the factory to do? You scammed the system. They still have warranty obligations. UPS it to the factory and mfg work on it. When they get to it.

    No matter what happens you'll be on here badmouthing the mfg, the dealer that went out of business, and the dealer that was smart enough to insist on making only profitable sales.

    Spending FG$ on mass replacement of SCBA and looking and MSA, Scott and one other secondary brands. The mfg will get motivated to provide additional discounts to the distributor/retailer which they can (will) pass along to you. The factory can afford to do this (or think they can) as comes out of their profit margin and locks you into them for many years for parts, additional parts, etc. So you can get a new SCBA with 2 tanks for $5k.

    If you're only buying 5 paks then not going to happen as no one is going to believe you when you tell them you're going to run 2 brands. If you're adding on a few paks the mfg is not going to give the retailer the additional promotional discount so they can't sell a pak with 2x tanks for $5k. Carbon bottles alone are near $1000ea. Does Fire Grant understand this? They are the Fed Gov't reality is not allowed inside the beltway. You can try to explain reality to them.

    Depending on SCBA brand unlikely that you can get 3x LEGITIMATE bids on one brand/model of pak. That's what a protected territory is.

    You can buy your carbon cylinders from Luxfer or their reps (can get multiple bids). Might save $ (I don't know). But the system the has not had NFPA test/approval as a system which might have warranty issues and might violate the FG requirements for NFPA approval.

    You got a big grant maybe have to come up with more $. What would you have done 10 years ago (before FG) when you had to come up with 100% of the cost?

  18. #18
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    135

    Default

    We had some departments that piggyback our bid. Once we got our bid they contacted the vendor who gave them the same bid and combined the order to make it a larger order and help them. Had three departments although it remain seperate orders.

  19. #19
    MembersZone Subscriber LVFD301's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    3,922

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by fireinfo10 View Post
    Perhaps it's a two way street and you've had previous dealings with the dealer that they didn't need?

    When in business (and want to stay in business) there are customers you have to politely (or not) tell to go away. Either because the customer can't understand a business HAS to make a profit to stay in business or because life is just to short.

    That could be - but bottom line $5,250.00 should be able to buy the airpacks, as long as they are not asking for the HVAC mounted face mask....

    Here in Missouri, we had a state grant program for radios. You were allocated X number of radios, for any amount up to 2k. They did need to be P25, VHF, at least 32 channels, and an alpha display. Other than that, you could do whatever. With very few exception, all the dealers across the state quoted radios at 1900 or so, and sold a bunch of them.

    2nd round, one of the very few dealers that quoted the radios at a fair profit, (about 1100
    each) mentioned that we could get a lot more radios out there, if we got rid of that 2k deal, and just bought radios in bulk, then handed the radios out.

    That dealer sold over 400 radios, because he was fair and honest.

    Now, the standard pricing for those radios is around 1100 - 1200 each, from most all of the dealers.

    Of course, now we have some dealers offering the new round of state acceptable radios, without all the required options, by playing on words...

    Amazing how that works.

    FFMVFD I should have some dealer info for you tomorrow.

  20. #20
    Forum Member medic190's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Stuyvesant Falls, NY
    Posts
    328

    Default

    Contact the regional Sales or Service Rep for the Company. It very well may be that the company has no idea what is going on and may not allow it to go on... In my area, one FD was not getting any reduction on the quote for SCBA's and the vendor kept telling him it is a closed (protected) territory. After a call to the regional sales rep, they got contacted by 2 other vendors from "outside" the territory who did what they could to 'make it right' The big manufacturers want you to stay with their brand, know how much AFG will allow, and will do what they can to 'make the sale'

    Also, I know for Scott anyway, in my area I have 3 vendors that overlap in my service area. And, if the vendor does not wish to work with you, you could always become an 'in house repair center' and do your own tests and repairs. Not that costly other than buying a bench tester (PosiChek), some spare parts, minor tools you likely have already, and a guy or 2 going out to the factory for 2.5 days for the class...

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Ribbons for Uniform
    By MarcusKspn in forum Firefighters Forum
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 02-02-2006, 11:42 PM
  2. Campbell River Fights Award To Firefighter
    By MalahatTwo7 in forum Firefighters Forum
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 01-15-2005, 11:27 AM
  3. Gloucester & Mount Ephraim Families Receive Russ Berrie Award
    By NJFFSA16 in forum The Off Duty Forums
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 05-30-2003, 01:58 AM
  4. Replies: 5
    Last Post: 04-17-2002, 06:30 AM
  5. Courage and Valor Award
    By NJFFSA16 in forum Line of Duty: In Memory Of
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 04-14-2002, 11:59 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts