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    Default Bail out systems?!?!?!?!

    Hello, I am trying to get some info on what to have for a bail out system. Yes, I tried the search function, however could not find what I was looking for so if there are already similar posts, I do apologize.

    Anyway, my dept issues us 40' of Sterling 8mm RIT 500 rope in a bag with two beaners. I dont know how to carry it. Leave it in the bag, in my pocket, or is 40' too much? My community has some taller bldgs, maybe five to six stories max. Other than that, we have industrial and residential. Also, some of the bail out techniques seem a little far fetched to do when your a** is on fire... too many steps and what not.

    So, what do people do with rope and why? Where do you have it, or do you even have it at all? I am still not sure if I want to have all 40' on me at one time. I have shorter lengths (25-30'), would those be better to carry, and just keep the 40' in my small duffle bag to use at training?

    Thank you in advance for any help you can give.

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    All you need to bail out a window is rope and your body. Anchor the rope, wrap it around your body, and out you go, using your body as friction. For higher buildings I would rather have a descending system. However, for those systems you will not only need a way to control the descent, like a rescue 8 or one of the aftermarket descenders, but also a harness of some kind in your gear. They are more complex to use and require more training, but they are better for higher bailouts.

    What I would do- keep the entire length of rope and a biner for anchoring in your gear and use the first technique mentioned above until you can get a better system and get trained on it. Better than jumping.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rescue101 View Post
    I don't mind fire rolling over my head. I just don't like it rolling UNDER my a**.

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    Just a thought...
    Has anybody ever thought of a way to integrate an SCBA harness with a seat harness all in one? Or just a way to use the SCBA harness to descend?

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    Quote Originally Posted by CGITCH View Post
    Just a thought...
    Has anybody ever thought of a way to integrate an SCBA harness with a seat harness all in one? Or just a way to use the SCBA harness to descend?
    Already exists...

    http://www.ritrescuesystems.com/prod...tail.php?id=10

    I have one of them as a demo. It's a great design. It just replaces the SCBA waist belt. Seeing as everybody in a fire would be wearing an SCBA, that would mean everybody is automatically wearing a bail out system. Granted, it's not a class II harness, but that is not a requirement of a bailout system anyhow. It uses the flat webbing which is super lightweight.

    We are currently testing many types of bailout systems for our department. RIT has some great systems. They have a new version coming out in the next month which will be a hip mounted version.

    The Petzl EXO is a great system as well, we are looking at those in the coming months too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rescue1man View Post
    Hello, I am trying to get some info on what to have for a bail out system. Yes, I tried the search function, however could not find what I was looking for so if there are already similar posts, I do apologize..
    Here is some good info:

    http://www.firehouse.com/forums/show...zl#post1141400



    Quote Originally Posted by rescue1man View Post
    Anyway, my dept issues us 40' of Sterling 8mm RIT 500 rope in a bag with two beaners. I dont know how to carry it. Leave it in the bag, in my pocket, or is 40' too much? My community has some taller bldgs, maybe five to six stories max. Other than that, we have industrial and residential. Also, some of the bail out techniques seem a little far fetched to do when your a** is on fire... too many steps and what not..
    I prefer 50'. That will get you out of a 5 story commercial building at the windowsill. But if you have no hook or a way to anchor at the windowsill, such as an axe or halligan, then you will need to find an object to tie off on. That can easily eat up more rope. Before you know it, you lost possibly 10 feet or more rope. So more is always better. And something to keep in mind, a bailout kit does not have to always get you to the ground. Most important is getting off the fire floor. You could be in a 50 story building and a 30' bailout rope will save your life. Just descend a few stories then smash a window and climb in to safety. The same goes with even a 6 story building. Let's say you have a 50' rope at the windowsill so it will only get you down to the second floor. Even though you can't reach the ground, your low enough that if you decide to jump, your jumping 10' vs 60'. That is the difference between a minor injury at best and death. Even if you just hung there till help arrived. Your out of harms way for the most part.

    Quote Originally Posted by rescue1man View Post
    So, what do people do with rope and why? Where do you have it, or do you even have it at all? I am still not sure if I want to have all 40' on me at one time. I have shorter lengths (25-30'), would those be better to carry, and just keep the 40' in my small duffle bag to use at training?

    Thank you in advance for any help you can give.
    The Sterling Firetech ropes are great. But the kevlar webbing is worth a look as well. It is much lighter and much smaller. 50' of Kevlar webbing weighs less then 50' of rope and takes up much less space.

    How long a rope to carry really comes down to the buildings you are required to protect. Most small towns with little to no major commercial business will mean structures no higher then 2-3 stories in most cases. So a 30' rope is plenty, even taking into account losing some length for tie off. But if your dealing with 5 stories and up, carry 50'. It gives you the most versatility. A harness mounted pouch or pocket pouch will easily store that much rope with little hassle.

    The RIT Pocket Pack is a model we have too. It's basically a pouch that sits in your bunker pocket and attaches via the velcro on the pocket body. When you close the pocket flap, it covers the rest of it. But the nice thing is the rope stays clean and neatly packed even when you use the pocket for other things.

    http://www.ritrescuesystems.com/prod...tail.php?id=56

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    I just noticed your in Mass, i am too. I could show you a bunch of demos we have.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CGITCH View Post
    Just a thought...
    Has anybody ever thought of a way to integrate an SCBA harness with a seat harness all in one? Or just a way to use the SCBA harness to descend?
    Other than the system that WD linked you to, carry an extra piece of webbing with you. Use it to tie a hasty harness around your lower body, and then biner into both the loops of the hasty harness and the waist belt of your SCBA.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rescue101 View Post
    I don't mind fire rolling over my head. I just don't like it rolling UNDER my a**.

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    We have the integrated harness in our t/o pants (FDNY spec morning pride). Its a nice harness and we've drilled with it extensively, but I still find the method I use a little quicker. Take the pointed end of the haligan bar and shove it into the wall so the bar is going across the corner of the window. Beaner the bar with a 50' piece of rope tied with a figure 9 (or 8 on a bite). Loop the rope around your body and grasp both ends with both hands, that should give you enough friction to lower safely. But that's just me. When we were in the market, we actually got a few field demos to take out and test. We carried them on calls to get the feel, and used them heavily in training. We then discussed it and made a decision. The big things to look at are quality, price and practicality. A lot of them seemed bulky and just had too much, which made them anything but quick. Good luck in your search and hope this helps.
    Matt G.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtg55 View Post
    We have the integrated harness in our t/o pants (FDNY spec morning pride). Its a nice harness and we've drilled with it extensively, but I still find the method I use a little quicker. Take the pointed end of the haligan bar and shove it into the wall so the bar is going across the corner of the window. Beaner the bar with a 50' piece of rope tied with a figure 9 (or 8 on a bite). Loop the rope around your body and grasp both ends with both hands, that should give you enough friction to lower safely.
    This is the method I was talking about in my original post. It works just fine with minimal equipment, and will only cost you about 50 bucks. For anything above a 3rd story window or so I would rather have a descending system with a harness.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rescue101 View Post
    I don't mind fire rolling over my head. I just don't like it rolling UNDER my a**.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WD6956 View Post
    Already exists...

    http://www.ritrescuesystems.com/prod...tail.php?id=10

    I have one of them as a demo. It's a great design. It just replaces the SCBA waist belt. Seeing as everybody in a fire would be wearing an SCBA, that would mean everybody is automatically wearing a bail out system. Granted, it's not a class II harness, but that is not a requirement of a bailout system anyhow. It uses the flat webbing which is super lightweight.

    We are currently testing many types of bailout systems for our department. RIT has some great systems. They have a new version coming out in the next month which will be a hip mounted version.

    The Petzl EXO is a great system as well, we are looking at those in the coming months too.
    So much for my money making adventure...

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    Quote Originally Posted by GTRider245 View Post
    This is the method I was talking about in my original post. It works just fine with minimal equipment, and will only cost you about 50 bucks. For anything above a 3rd story window or so I would rather have a descending system with a harness.
    I too have used this bailout method. One counterpoint I had made to me was what do you do when you are spent? Run around the training ground until physically exhausted then crawl up to the bail out floor and try the technique. Not so sure everyone will be able to hold on to the rope. I have yet to try it but with wet gloves and the fat guy behind me pushing me out the window, I am looking into a decent device bailout system.
    Shawn M. Cecula
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lewiston2Capt View Post
    I too have used this bailout method. One counterpoint I had made to me was what do you do when you are spent? Run around the training ground until physically exhausted then crawl up to the bail out floor and try the technique. Not so sure everyone will be able to hold on to the rope. I have yet to try it but with wet gloves and the fat guy behind me pushing me out the window, I am looking into a decent device bailout system.
    Shawn,just step aside and let the fat kid go FIRST! T.C.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rescue101 View Post
    Shawn,just step aside and let the fat kid go FIRST! T.C.
    And when he falls on his ***, jump on him to break your fall. That's my new bailout system.

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    Makes perfect sense to me!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rescue101 View Post
    I don't mind fire rolling over my head. I just don't like it rolling UNDER my a**.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GTRider245 View Post
    Makes perfect sense to me!
    Do you think I could make money off that idea? is it legal to sell overweight firefighters? Now where's that in NFPA...

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    At my FD we are issued these bailout bags and are supposed to slip them over the waist strap of the scba.

    http://www.thefirestore.com/store/pr...s_1_descender/

    I leave mine on a GUT belt along with a streamlight lightbox.

    We have done a pretty good amount of training on self rescue and learned alot of cool ways to make anchor points.
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    Quote Originally Posted by RFRDxplorer View Post
    At my FD we are issued these bailout bags and are supposed to slip them over the waist strap of the scba.

    http://www.thefirestore.com/store/pr...s_1_descender/

    I leave mine on a GUT belt along with a streamlight lightbox.

    We have done a pretty good amount of training on self rescue and learned alot of cool ways to make anchor points.
    Are you guys also issued a belt or harness to anchor to, or is that part up to you?

    I know I would have no problem footing the bill for a harness if the department was to buy the system itself.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rescue101 View Post
    I don't mind fire rolling over my head. I just don't like it rolling UNDER my a**.

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    Thanks for all the great info! my computer has been down, so I have been unable to reply...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lewiston2Capt View Post
    I too have used this bailout method. One counterpoint I had made to me was what do you do when you are spent? Run around the training ground until physically exhausted then crawl up to the bail out floor and try the technique. Not so sure everyone will be able to hold on to the rope. I have yet to try it but with wet gloves and the fat guy behind me pushing me out the window, I am looking into a decent device bailout system.
    If you have a hasty or gemtor-type (sp?) harness you can clip in a beaner, wrap it a few times with the rope and use it as a friction descender. I couldn't find a good picture except for the Bachman , but in this case there is a single rope and the beaner is directly clipped to the harness. 4-5 wraps should do it for most folks. Obviously using a beaner as a descender is bad for the hardware but if it gets you down safely, beaners are cheap. I don't know if the same setup would work w/out a harness. I don't think so since you need to be tied into the device somehow.

    I do like how most of the newer SCBA harness's have the bailout harness/devices built in.. I haven't tried bailing in one yet, though.
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    Quote Originally Posted by voyager9 View Post
    If you have a hasty or gemtor-type (sp?) harness you can clip in a beaner, wrap it a few times with the rope and use it as a friction descender. I couldn't find a good picture except for the Bachman , but in this case there is a single rope and the beaner is directly clipped to the harness. 4-5 wraps should do it for most folks. Obviously using a beaner as a descender is bad for the hardware but if it gets you down safely, beaners are cheap. I don't know if the same setup would work w/out a harness. I don't think so since you need to be tied into the device somehow.

    I do like how most of the newer SCBA harness's have the bailout harness/devices built in.. I haven't tried bailing in one yet, though.
    Currently we have no harnesses. I am looking into a Gemtor harness and the Escape artist descender with a crosby hook on 35 foot of 8mm sterling escape rope. We already have the rope and carabiners. The current method we are using is the body wrap method. I hesitate to use a carabiner as a friction device as the whistle test doesnt work too well with those. I want one I can be hands free while I am on my way out the window. I looked into the Exo like FDNY uses but I cant justify the cost of the training built into the device. I am familiar with the 540 belay device and the escape artist is basically a personal 540 so therefore I am trained on the descender.
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    This is now a law in NY state. You are required to have a bail out system in place and be trained on it.

    We use a gemtor (sp?) harness with a petzl system. Thanks FDNY for creating this law and being the only department in the state who is also exempt from it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GTRider245 View Post
    Are you guys also issued a belt or harness to anchor to, or is that part up to you?

    I know I would have no problem footing the bill for a harness if the department was to buy the system itself.
    They provide us with webbing and training on how to make a hasty harness. But alot of us have gone out and got gut belts or similar prodcuts.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SRLFD448 View Post
    This is now a law in NY state. You are required to have a bail out system in place and be trained on it.

    We use a gemtor (sp?) harness with a petzl system. Thanks FDNY for creating this law and being the only department in the state who is also exempt from it.
    And on top of that, Department of Labor is actively enforcing the resultant regulations, apparently intending to visit every fire department within the next 16 months. I know of one fire department that has been cited already. They have until the end of May to have the devices in hand, and the end of June to complete all training.

    The law became effective in November, after most everyone had set their budget for the coming year.

    Nobody really has a problem with the law or its intent, it's the execution that leaves a lot to be desired.

    We've done the risk assessment, SOP, and have the kits. We're just trying to figure out who will do the training. That's another vague area in the law.
    Opinions my own. Standard disclaimers apply.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lewiston2Capt View Post
    Currently we have no harnesses. I am looking into a Gemtor harness and the Escape artist descender with a crosby hook on 35 foot of 8mm sterling escape rope. We already have the rope and carabiners. The current method we are using is the body wrap method. I hesitate to use a carabiner as a friction device as the whistle test doesnt work too well with those. I want one I can be hands free while I am on my way out the window. I looked into the Exo like FDNY uses but I cant justify the cost of the training built into the device. I am familiar with the 540 belay device and the escape artist is basically a personal 540 so therefore I am trained on the descender.
    Using the caribiner as the friction device was just something to do in case you had the gemtor but no descender.. wrap pompier hook 3-5 times and go.

    In theory the Petzl system looks really nice. I've heard that they're pretty bulky and a PITA to actually carry around, though. Better than the alternative, I suppose. I think that's why I like the idea of having the system incorporated into the SCBA pack is a good idea. If done right it would get rid of having to hang another rope bag off your waist.

    Since this is for emergency use, why carry around a full descender (540/Grigri..etc). Wouldn't a sewn-in shock-rope or webbing work just as well for one-time use?

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    Quote Originally Posted by voyager9 View Post

    What's the "Whistle Test"?
    Basically a test to see how the chosen anchor, rope and hardware will hold up to a load.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rescue101 View Post
    I don't mind fire rolling over my head. I just don't like it rolling UNDER my a**.

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