JR's on a hose line.

[RS1606]

is an exposure line the same as a support line?

[RS1606]

Your profile gives it away as well as previous posts. I already looked.

im in more than the three on there. its not any of those post.

[FWDbuff]

is an exposure line the same as a support line?

What part of "Hot Zone" don't you understand? Do you need me to draw a diagram?

[RS1606]

no, im asking if they are the same thing. that guys post confused me. will you please answer my question.

[FWDbuff]

An exposure line is protecting an exposure from imminent danger from radiant heat and/or direct mechanical exposure to fire; therefore it is in the hot zone.
Therefore, you should not be on it.

If this is what you consider a "support line" then re-read the above statement.

I dont care what you call it, call it a Double-Whopper-with-Cheese handline, if it is in the HOT ZONE you should not be on it.

[BSFD9302]

RS, you asked a question about the child labor laws a while back and I believe you accepted the answer given. So I want to advice you on one point only. The law is the law and ignorance of the law is no excuse. Even if your Chief or IC did not know you where in the hot zone they are still breaking the law. See as a minor your options or choices are no matter. On these points you have no choice or opinion. It is the Chief's or IC's responsibility to guarantee that you are not in danger or in violation of the law. As officers this is one of the most difficult parts of having juniors. Sometimes it is difficult to keep them from doing things they are not suppose to be doing even after we tell them to stop or not to do something.

Also, salvage and overhaul is still the hot zone for one simple fact, collapse is still a possibility and so is fire.

On a side note, I think you are doing a good job asking questions. Just be careful and do not get snippy. Everyone on here will be more than happy to help you but if you turn snippy then that help will end.

Keep up the good work and be safe. There is plenty of time for you to do all the work.

[FWDbuff]

RS, you asked a question about the child labor laws a while back and I believe you accepted the answer given. So I want to advice you on one point only. The law is the law and ignorance of the law is no excuse. Even if your Chief or IC did not know you where in the hot zone they are still breaking the law. See as a minor your options or choices are no matter. On these points you have no choice or opinion. It is the Chief's or IC's responsibility to guarantee that you are not in danger or in violation of the law. As officers this is one of the most difficult parts of having juniors. Sometimes it is difficult to keep them from doing things they are not suppose to be doing even after we tell them to stop or not to do something.

Also, salvage and overhaul is still the hot zone for one simple fact, collapse is still a possibility and so is fire.

On a side note, I think you are doing a good job asking questions. Just be careful and do not get snippy. Everyone on here will be more than happy to help you but if you turn snippy then that help will end.

Keep up the good work and be safe. There is plenty of time for you to do all the work.

I would like to continue on this by saying that not only is it your organization's responsibility (Your Chief and all of his officers and senior firefighters) it is also YOUR responsibility to know the laws of your state and what you may and may not do as a Junior Firefighter. Just because THEY are ignorant, does not mean you have to be also. Here's a few questions for you- Do you respond to fires after 11pm on school nights? Do you spend more than 8 hours a day in the firehouse or at training or fire scenes on weekends during the school year?

[TheFIREkid05]

I'm a junior myself, and I'm NOT allowed to be near a hot zone or be on a hose line. There's plenty of other ways to help on a fireground without being on a hoseline. I noticed you've angered a few people on here and my only advice to you is the same advice I recieved from one of my best friends, who works full time for the department I'm with. Keep your mouth shut and your ears open. That doesn't necessarily mean don't ask questions, just don't argue with the responses you get. I ask TONS of questions when we're going over something new that I don't understand. Just don't fight the people that are willing to give you advice. Enjoy your time as a junior, and take in all of the skills and information you can!!! Good luck!

[maumon086]

I know in maryland it's legal for those that are 16 and up depending on department policy. Here's the Maryland code reference.

"Labor and Employment § 3-203. Scope of subtitle."

This is the part that says that Child Labor Laws in the State of Maryland do not apply to volunteer or charitable organizations. It then goes on to say, "This subtitle does not apply to an activity that a minor performs if the activity:

(4) is limited to:
(ix) work that is performed as an unpaid volunteer in a charitable or not for profit organization, if:




1. a parent of the minor or a person standing in the place of the parent consents in writing; and




2. for hazardous work in a volunteer fire department or company or volunteer rescue squad, the minor:




A. is at least 16 years old; and




B. has completed or is taking a course of study about fire fighting or rescue. "

The Maryland Fire and Rescue Institute allows for those that are 16 and up to complete their Firefighter I course (with inside, live fire evolutions and NFPA 1001 compliant) and also allows the completion of just about any course they offer. I know when I was 16 in Maryland I had FFI and Rescue Technician and before my 18th birthday I had EMT-B and HazMat Ops.

[RS1606]

An exposure line is protecting an exposure from imminent danger from radiant heat and/or direct mechanical exposure to fire; therefore it is in the hot zone.
Therefore, you should not be on it.

If this is what you consider a "support line" then re-read the above statement.

I dont care what you call it, call it a Double-Whopper-with-Cheese handline, if it is in the HOT ZONE you should not be on it.

thank you for answering my question. thats all i asked.

[RS1606]

I would like to continue on this by saying that not only is it your organization's responsibility (Your Chief and all of his officers and senior firefighters) it is also YOUR responsibility to know the laws of your state and what you may and may not do as a Junior Firefighter. Just because THEY are ignorant, does not mean you have to be also. Here's a few questions for you- Do you respond to fires after 11pm on school nights? Do you spend more than 8 hours a day in the firehouse or at training or fire scenes on weekends during the school year?

i do spend many weekends at the fire stations. so can the chief get introuble if we get hurt if he knows nothing about it? should this be something i bring to his attention?

[NWOhio157]

i do spend many weekends at the fire stations. so can the chief get introuble if we get hurt if he knows nothing about it? should this be something i bring to his attention?

You answered this yourself... YES. He's the boss. He should be fully aware of what's going on in his department.

[FWDbuff]

i do spend many weekends at the fire stations. so can the chief get introuble if we get hurt if he knows nothing about it? should this be something i bring to his attention?

I don't know, is ignorance against the law in Tennessee? Why don't you use your common sense, stop, and think about that for a second..... Ask yourself..."Will my Chief get in trouble if I get hurt at a fire doing something that I am forbidden by law from doing?"

Maybe, personally he will not get in trouble. But I guarantee, if one of you Juniors were to get hurt, your Fire Company in general will feel like it just got butt-f*cked by a gorilla with a d*ck the size of a watermelon once the State of Tennessee gets done handing out citations.

[TheFIREkid05]

But I guarantee, if one of you Juniors were to get hurt, your Fire Company in general will feel like it just got butt-f*cked by a gorilla with a d*ck the size of a watermelon once the State of Tennessee gets done handing out citations.

You just made my day.

[CGITCH]

I don't know, is ignorance against the law in Tennessee? Why don't you use your common sense, stop, and think about that for a second..... Ask yourself..."Will my Chief get in trouble if I get hurt at a fire doing something that I am forbidden by law from doing?"

Maybe, personally he will not get in trouble. But I guarantee, if one of you Juniors were to get hurt, your Fire Company in general will feel like it just got butt-f*cked by a gorilla with a d*ck the size of a watermelon once the State of Tennessee gets done handing out citations.

I admire the way you articulated that, so eloquent. Ever thought of being a poet?

[FWDbuff]

I admire the way you articulated that, so eloquent. Ever thought of being a poet?

Shock and Awe.

[mtg55]

Lmao buff. Agreed. Well put. I found these on the TN state site. Still looking for something more specific towards Jr's, but here is a start:

http://www.state.tn.us/labor-wfd/Title50-5-101to115.htm

Reference sections 50-5-106
50-5-109
50-5-111
50-5-112 (violations/penalties)
The last one list fines, misdemeanors and felonies for different violations. I'm still looking, but like I said these should help in the mean time.

[FWDbuff]

Oh and hey, act now, and you will also receive a BONUS molestation from Federal Authorities for failure to maintain policy regarding your (Federally Required!!!) respiratory protection policy! And since SCBA is required for overhaul under NFPA Standards, anyone performing overhaul has to have SCBA.......But guess who is NOT allowed to wear SCBA in an IDLH (that would be a "hot zone for you RS1606 in case if you are confused....) environment under federal OSHA requirements......go ahead.....guess.....

The molestation that your organization would receive from the State of Tennessee gorillas would look like a girl scout camp-out compared to what the Federal gorillas would do.......

[RS1606]

Lmao buff. Agreed. Well put. I found these on the TN state site. Still looking for something more specific towards Jr's, but here is a start:

http://www.state.tn.us/labor-wfd/Title50-5-101to115.htm

Reference sections 50-5-106
50-5-109
50-5-111
50-5-112 (violations/penalties)
The last one list fines, misdemeanors and felonies for different violations. I'm still looking, but like I said these should help in the mean time.

im not trying to prove any one wrong but i noticed ths one, care to explain it to me, NICELY?
50-5-107. Exempt minors. —
This part shall not apply to any minor who:



(14) Is fourteen (14) years of age or older and who is a student enrolled in a course of study and training in a cooperative career and technical training program, including a work experience and career exploration program, that is approved and authorized by the department of education and that complies with all applicable federal laws. The student learner must be employed under a written agreement, a copy of which must be retained by the employer in the employer's personnel records.

[mtg55]

im not trying to prove any one wrong but i noticed ths one, care to explain it to me, NICELY?
50-5-107. Exempt minors. —
This part shall not apply to any minor who:



(14) Is fourteen (14) years of age or older and who is a student enrolled in a course of study and training in a cooperative career and technical training program, including a work experience and career exploration program, that is approved and authorized by the department of education and that complies with all applicable federal laws. The student learner must be employed under a written agreement, a copy of which must be retained by the employer in the employer's personnel records.

I think in PA we call this Co-op. It is a program between school districts and registered businesses where students spend half of their school day going to work (most of the time a paid apprenticeship) to learn a trade. Examples being carpentry shop, body shop, auto service, sometimes career fire departments are involved. I think this is geared directly towards a school based program.