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    Cool JR's on a hose line.

    The department that I'm in allows explorers to be on a support line, (fight fire from outside the house). what our your opinions about this. Also do your departments let you do more, less, or same?

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    As far as I know now this could be incorrect but most areas don't allow Jr. Firefighters or Explorers to be anywhere near where such an exterior line would be needed as that could be and is considered the "Hot Zone" and you are putting them at risk by placing them that close to any burning structure or vehicle of any type.
    That is just my opinion. Correct me if I am wrong.

    Andrew

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    In training go for it.

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    Salvage and overhaul, maybe. Defensive? Nope.

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    well definsive wise, its us being set up on the big stationary line, and we judge the size of the shadow from the building to keep us away from the collapse zone. (big fires)

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    Quote Originally Posted by RS1606 View Post
    well definsive wise, its us being set up on the big stationary line, and we judge the size of the shadow from the building to keep us away from the collapse zone. (big fires)

    NOT a good way to determine a collapse zone! That means your zone changes with the time of day.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by pasobuff View Post
    NOT a good way to determine a collapse zone! That means your zone changes with the time of day.....
    it involves alot of math. idk how to explain it.

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    We would generally take the hieght of the building and then add half again for the collapse zone.....been a while but I think that was the 'formula' we used.....30 foot building = 45 foot collapse zone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pasobuff View Post
    We would generally take the hieght of the building and then add half again for the collapse zone.....been a while but I think that was the 'formula' we used.....30 foot building = 45 foot collapse zone.
    thats what i'm thinking of. and in mid day and another part of the day it will equal the length of the shadow. sorry thats what i was thinking about.

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    Here, I believe you can operate a hand line (up to a certain size and properly supervised) during training evolutions. It may have changed in the last year, but that's how I remember it. We go off of the state regulations for Jr FF's, and it really cuts out of the guess work on what they can/can't do. I would recommend checking yours if you state has them, as it cuts out a lot of liability too if something were to happen. We do not allow Jr's to operate hand lines at fire calls.
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    When i was chief of our explorer post ( feels like ages ago but only like 8 years) we were told we cant be on hose line.. Personally i think this is only thing i can think of thats worse then C.h.a.o.s.. imagine explaining that to homeowner. oh your house burnt down because we let the explorers operate the hoseline.

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    Quote Originally Posted by d_holder86 View Post
    When i was chief of our explorer post ( feels like ages ago but only like 8 years) we were told we cant be on hose line.. Personally i think this is only thing i can think of thats worse then C.h.a.o.s.. imagine explaining that to homeowner. oh your house burnt down because we let the explorers operate the hoseline.
    even for being on a support line?

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    What's a support line? How is it any different from a HOSE LINE?

    Your place isn't on a hoseline as a junior/explorer. Your place is outside of the red zone. Being a hoseline should be considered inside the redzone. If you were injured in doing so, who's covering you? Not the BSA because you shouldn't have been in that situation and definately not the FD's insurance because it doesn't cover you.
    Leave it to the guys who are properly covered, are trained, of age, who should be performing that task, and who know what they're doing.

    Collapse zones are ~1.5 times the height of the structure... What do shadows have to do with it?
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    a support line is a hose line thats there to put water on the fire from the out side, we do 5 weeks trainig before an explorer is allowed on it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CGITCH View Post
    In training go for it.
    Agreed.On my old vollie department,we'd let the Explorers train alongside us but for real ops,you had to be over 18 and certified "burnable" by the Commonwealth of Kentucky as a full active member.The Explorers handed out drinks and snacks and could help take up the hose and restow gear on the rigs.Not every department does that but they should.
    If there are so few people responding that the IC even considers putting the kids on a defensive line,they need to strike another alarm for mutual aid.
    It's too easy to forget details on scene and he might forget that "the blue line" is manned by Explorers and send them in on an offensive attack once the defensive tactics start controlling the fire.
    There will be plenty of time to get actual firefighting experience and risk getting hurt once you are 18 and responsible for yourself.
    As an Explorer,you should be learning as safely as possible so you are that much farther ahead of new members when you DO become a full member of your department.Don't be in such a hurry.
    Last edited by doughesson; 03-15-2010 at 01:06 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RS1606 View Post
    it involves alot of math. idk how to explain it.
    You should learn it before you go quoting it. One and a half times the building's height isn't too much math for me and I spent two of the least happiest years of my life in the 7th grade.

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    did the explorers get to be on a interior hose line when doing over haul? thats another thing we get to do.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RFxplr326 View Post
    Collapse zones are ~1.5 times the height of the structure... What do shadows have to do with it?
    our captian said that if we do the math and we are still in the shadow of the building we are to close. so he usaly has us stay 25 FT out of the shadow. if the sun is fully up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RS1606 View Post
    our captian said that if we do the math and we are still in the shadow of the building we are to close. so he usaly has us stay 25 FT out of the shadow. if the sun is fully up.
    Your Captain is an idiot, and you may tell him that I said so.
    "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

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    Quote Originally Posted by d_holder86 View Post
    When i was chief of our explorer post ( feels like ages ago but only like 8 years) we were told we cant be on hose line.. Personally i think this is only thing i can think of thats worse then C.h.a.o.s.. imagine explaining that to homeowner. oh your house burnt down because we let the explorers operate the hoseline.
    If your department is counting on explorers to make up staffing, there are problems. In addition, if they are putting water on the fire from the outside, the home is lost anyway and having or not having explorers on the hoseline didn't make a difference.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FWDbuff View Post
    Your Captain is an idiot, and you may tell him that I said so.
    Ditto........

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    Quote Originally Posted by RS1606 View Post
    our captian said that if we do the math and we are still in the shadow of the building we are to close. so he usaly has us stay 25 FT out of the shadow. if the sun is fully up.
    In house training at its best.
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    I'm a Jr,and only time im allowed to be on the line is when we are doing training..Now if its a real house fire i am not allowed to get a hose and run-up there and start spraying the fire,i can get in alot of trouble for that,,even the department can get in serious trouble if the right person seen me..soo

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    Quote Originally Posted by RS1606 View Post
    our captian said that if we do the math and we are still in the shadow of the building we are to close. so he usaly has us stay 25 FT out of the shadow. if the sun is fully up.
    An inquiring mind wants to know... Or verify... What department are you with?
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    Quote Originally Posted by FWDbuff View Post
    Your Captain is an idiot, and you may tell him that I said so.
    Agreed, and I'll also lay odds that if the insurance company finds out whats going on, he'll be in some serious trouble, I only hope it's before one of you kids gets hurt.

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