Thread: Zeroed Budget

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    Default Zeroed Budget

    I was wondering if anyone has had their budget zeroed out and gotten awarded. Mine got zeroed in December and I have seen no other action since.
    Just wondering if anyone else was experiencing the same.

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    What were you applying for? Exhaust system?

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    I have an SCBA project that I helped with that has the budget zeroed out since December. No other action has been taken. It will not surprise me if they end up with a computer DJ.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shinds View Post
    What were you applying for? Exhaust system?
    No a CAFS retrofit for our 2007 pumper and nozzles. Protecting an ethanol plant here now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by onebugle View Post
    I have an SCBA project that I helped with that has the budget zeroed out since December. No other action has been taken. It will not surprise me if they end up with a computer DJ.
    Hey One Bugle I sat in front of you at Reno, I'm still in that 6% left out of that group that is waiting for the award:-(

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    Quote Originally Posted by smokediver6102 View Post
    Hey One Bugle I sat in front of you at Reno, I'm still in that 6% left out of that group that is waiting for the award:-(
    The CAFS retrofits have been awarded in the past usually with some type of reduction. Not sure why it's zeroed out, but maybe they felt the 2007 should have been equipped with it. I'm assuming the Ethanol plant was not in existence when the engine was purchased though, since the request for CAFS.

    I'll keep my fingers crossed that something will change for the positive.

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    Quote Originally Posted by onebugle View Post
    The CAFS retrofits have been awarded in the past usually with some type of reduction. Not sure why it's zeroed out, but maybe they felt the 2007 should have been equipped with it. I'm assuming the Ethanol plant was not in existence when the engine was purchased though, since the request for CAFS.

    I'll keep my fingers crossed that something will change for the positive.
    Oh believe me if I could have got it then i would have, however the pumper was bought with limited funds from a CDBG grant, the ethanol plant was not built then either.

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    Quote Originally Posted by smokediver6102 View Post
    No a CAFS retrofit for our 2007 pumper and nozzles. Protecting an ethanol plant here now.

    Have you confronted the plant for a donation on this unit ? Do they not have to either keep on hand or supply the foam if needed ? Thought it was a law ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by mtndew21 View Post
    Have you confronted the plant for a donation on this unit ? Do they not have to either keep on hand or supply the foam if needed ? Thought it was a law ?
    They have their own fire suppression system and foam, however that does not help us on those tankers that flip over once they have left their property.
    We have had 2 tanker accidents since the plant opened about 18 months ago. They would bring us foam to a location if we needed it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by smokediver6102 View Post
    They have their own fire suppression system and foam, however that does not help us on those tankers that flip over once they have left their property.
    We have had 2 tanker accidents since the plant opened about 18 months ago. They would bring us foam to a location if we needed it.
    Frankly,

    I do not want to be anywhere near an ethanol tanker accident.

    I'll drop off your foam about 6 miles away from the scene for you.

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    There's a reason they build those things in the middle of nowhere.

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    We had a 1199A posted on our 2009 AFG in January and found that our budget was also zero and then several weeks later check and found the 1199 was not there and our budget is still zero so we are sitting and wait to see what happens.

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    Not to rain on anyones parade: But it would seem to me that if your application was zero'd out by the technical review folks , chances are slim that it will be funded. There's always hope it might get re-instated.

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    I repsectfully disagree islandfire. As Sean Daniels pointed out sevearl of my clients ( inlcuding him) this year have found there budgets zeroed out, which is an indication to me that the grant has scored well and gone to peer review, been accepted and is now in the tech review phase of award.

    Since budget adjustments or reductions only occur in tech review, it makes no sense that they would be even messing with their budget unless they had passed computer scoring and peer, since they would simply recieve a DJ notice if rejected at either phase.

    I mean they have enough to do already and why would they adjust a budget for which they had no intention of awarding? I beleive what is going on is that when they decide that a reducation of some level is called for they pull the sheet and when they do , it zeroes everything until they re-insert it with their recomendations.

    So far, and caution that with "so far", any of my 10-12 cleints that have found their budgets zeroed have eventually had the budget page restored with lower amounts and they have ben funded, albeit at a lesser amount.

    Smokediver, hang in there I still think and am confident that you have a great grant, it will be awraded and you will be doing a happy dance soon.
    Kurt Bradley
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    Kurt: I bow to your superior knowledge of how the system works. It just seemed to me that this year , reductions were posted without any changes to the app until then , then 1199's followed by the 10Q's. followed by awards.

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    Quote Originally Posted by islandfire03 View Post
    Kurt: I bow to your superior knowledge of how the system works. It just seemed to me that this year , reductions were posted without any changes to the app until then , then 1199's followed by the 10Q's. followed by awards.
    I just think we re all learning things this year. This is the first time we have ever been able to see that reductions were being made prior to seeing the 10 qs coming and suggesting same. Ever changing program, new admin, new rules!
    Kurt Bradley
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    I'm a believer in CAFS. Particularily for rural. My new FG tanker pumper has CAFS.

    But it's no going to do anything for you in Ethanol incident. You need Ar-Afff thru fog nozzles using foam tubes. Low expanision tube for attack and medium expansion for finish.

    And LOTS of Ar-Afff. A foam trailer for a couple skids and with mounted monitor would be good FG app for a small/meidum size incident.

    Possible that a hard sell for CAFS as an ethanol solution fell flat with knowledgable reviewer.

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    Neiowa
    You are exactly correct on your statement, we did get a price of a dual tank system with both foams, I am mostly concerned about the tankers going in and out of the facility rather than the facility itself.

    I did attend a class recently in Texas where depts stated that they had used CAFS on ethanol fires and it worked respectively. If you had to perform a rescue it was better than water.

    But I was not totally basing my need of a CAF system on the ethanol plant, mainly the ability to extend the use of water in our rural area, the lighter weight of the hose and less fatigue of the firefighters.
    I look at it as just another tool to use.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ktb9780 View Post
    I repsectfully disagree islandfire. As Sean Daniels pointed out sevearl of my clients ( inlcuding him) this year have found there budgets zeroed out, which is an indication to me that the grant has scored well and gone to peer review, been accepted and is now in the tech review phase of award.

    Since budget adjustments or reductions only occur in tech review, it makes no sense that they would be even messing with their budget unless they had passed computer scoring and peer, since they would simply recieve a DJ notice if rejected at either phase.

    I mean they have enough to do already and why would they adjust a budget for which they had no intention of awarding? I beleive what is going on is that when they decide that a reducation of some level is called for they pull the sheet and when they do , it zeroes everything until they re-insert it with their recomendations.

    So far, and caution that with "so far", any of my 10-12 cleints that have found their budgets zeroed have eventually had the budget page restored with lower amounts and they have ben funded, albeit at a lesser amount.

    Smokediver, hang in there I still think and am confident that you have a great grant, it will be awraded and you will be doing a happy dance soon.
    I can buy that explanation as well, but I'm not convinced that it will hold true 100% across the board.

    The issue is that I have an SCBA project that has been zeroed out since December. I find it hard to believe that tech review is taking this long on such a project. The cost was about $500 less than the AFG max. allowed, so that would not be a factor. It only leaves the edition which are '97. Still not a complicated decision to make in that regard.

    I guess we will know for sure when the DJ's start arriving.

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    Quote Originally Posted by onebugle View Post
    I can buy that explanation as well, but I'm not convinced that it will hold true 100% across the board.

    The issue is that I have an SCBA project that has been zeroed out since December. I find it hard to believe that tech review is taking this long on such a project. The cost was about $500 less than the AFG max. allowed, so that would not be a factor. It only leaves the edition which are '97. Still not a complicated decision to make in that regard.

    I guess we will know for sure when the DJ's start arriving.
    Andy, per chance did you ask for CBRNE rated equipment? It may be held up at your state level since any CBRNE request must have State approval before award indicating that this type of equipment is needed by your department just like an ICE grant must go through.
    Kurt Bradley
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    Quote Originally Posted by ktb9780 View Post
    Andy, per chance did you ask for CBRNE rated equipment? It may be held up at your state level since any CBRNE request must have State approval before award indicating that this type of equipment is needed by your department just like an ICE grant must go through.
    I do believe under NFPA 1981 2007 CBRNE is required anyways. The SCBA have to be certified to NIOSH's Statement of Standard for NIOSH CBRN SCBA Testing.

    I know prior to 2007 that we needed State approval if we wanted CBRNE rated equipment, but I believe that would be not the case now. But that's my interpretation, but in any case no request was made for CBRNE SCBA.
    Last edited by onebugle; 03-14-2010 at 05:11 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by onebugle View Post
    No request for CBRNE rated SCBA.
    I had a client yesterday that had been waiting since Decemeber and they finally posted new budget and 1199a on same day.Chances could be that they are just behind schedule in working their way through the pile. I cannot see any correlation on an SCBA project, unlike what we are seeing with VES.I think you are still good to go here Andy,patience is a killer though.
    Kurt Bradley
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    Quote Originally Posted by ktb9780 View Post
    I had a client yesterday that had been waiting since Decemeber and they finally posted new budget and 1199a on same day.Chances could be that they are just behind schedule in working their way through the pile. I cannot see any correlation on an SCBA project, unlike what we are seeing with VES.I think you are still good to go here Andy,patience is a killer though.
    Couldn't finish my original post.....flooded basement calls.

    I do believe under NFPA 1981 2007 CBRNE is required anyways. The SCBA have to be certified to NIOSH's Statement of Standard for NIOSH CBRN SCBA Testing.

    I know prior to 2007 that we needed State approval if we wanted CBRNE rated equipment, but I believe that would be not the case now. But that's my interpretation, but in any case no request was made for CBRNE SCBA.

    Definately strange, as this is the only Ops application that has done this. I'm just sitting back and waiting.

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    "I'm just sitting back and waiting."

    And that is so hard.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ktb9780 View Post
    I repsectfully disagree islandfire. As Sean Daniels pointed out sevearl of my clients ( inlcuding him) this year have found there budgets zeroed out, which is an indication to me that the grant has scored well and gone to peer review, been accepted and is now in the tech review phase of award.

    Since budget adjustments or reductions only occur in tech review, it makes no sense that they would be even messing with their budget unless they had passed computer scoring and peer, since they would simply recieve a DJ notice if rejected at either phase.

    I mean they have enough to do already and why would they adjust a budget for which they had no intention of awarding? I beleive what is going on is that when they decide that a reducation of some level is called for they pull the sheet and when they do , it zeroes everything until they re-insert it with their recomendations.

    So far, and caution that with "so far", any of my 10-12 cleints that have found their budgets zeroed have eventually had the budget page restored with lower amounts and they have ben funded, albeit at a lesser amount.

    Smokediver, hang in there I still think and am confident that you have a great grant, it will be awraded and you will be doing a happy dance soon.
    Thanks Kurt for your input just hope everything works out it was just really confusing see that we had the 1199 posted and the budget zero and then a few weeks later the 1199 disappear but hopefully will will heard some news on it soon. Just hope we hear something soon because the guys are driving me nuts waiting to hear.

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