Closed Thread
Page 1 of 2 12 Last

Thread: Foldatank rack

  1. #1
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Rural Iowa
    Posts
    3,106

    Default Foldatank rack

    Looking for design ideas for a foldatank rack. Outside of the box ideas that have worked (or not so much).

    Problem - Tanker pumper with 3000gal tank. Catwalk along side of water tank is 67" from ground. Looking for a "deployment" rack design.

    1.) Manual fold down box with large foldatank is to heavy and too high to be practical or safe.

    2.) Zico 3098 Quik Lift Portable Tank system. In stock configuration when down position the bottom of the tank is still 39" above the road and top of the tank is 67". Not down to a convent lifting height. Lift is expensive.

    3.) Zico 3098 Quik Lift horizontal/overhead lift. In stock configuration when down position the bottom of the tank is still 69" above the road. Not a useful option. Lift is expensive.

    What other options have you used/seen to put the deployed tank in a low, accessible egonomic corrent location for FF removal/access? By truck mfg, aftermarket mfg, or homegrown. Photo appreciated.
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    Last edited by neiowa; 03-14-2010 at 08:54 PM.

  2. #2
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Bryn Athyn, Pa.
    Posts
    1,619

    Default

    Look on Toyne's web site at Maury, N.C.'s tanker. I sent you a PM with a little more info.

  3. #3
    Forum Member
    Rescue101's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Bridgton,Me USA
    Posts
    8,162

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by neiowa View Post
    Looking for design ideas for a foldatank rack. Outside of the box ideas that have worked (or not so much).

    Problem - Tanker pumper with 3000gal tank. Catwalk along side of water tank is 67" from ground. Looking for a "deployment" rack design.

    1.) Manual fold down box with large foldatank is to heavy and too high to be practical or safe.

    2.) Zico 3098 Quik Lift Portable Tank system. In stock configuration when down position the bottom of the tank is still 39" above the road and top of the tank is 67". Not down to a convent lifting height. Lift is expensive.

    3.) Zivco 3098 Quik Lift horizontal/overhead lift. In stock configuration when down position the bottom of the tank is still 69" above the road. Not a useful option. Lift is expensive.

    What other options have you used/seen to put the deployed tank in a low, accessible egonomic corrent location for FF removal/access? By truck mfg, aftermarket mfg, or homegrown. Photo appreciated.
    To do what you want to do isn't going to be CHEAP and I don't care WHO does it. But if you do it RIGHT it will serve well and outlive the truck. There are any number of mfgs capable of making a nice compounded hyd lift that will do what you want to do,Toyne being just on of them. Rosie ia another. Good luck in your quest. T.C.

  4. #4
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    119

    Default

    Who is the original builder of the truck? Do they have anything to offer?

  5. #5
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    306

    Default

    We had the Zico Tank Lift on our tanker that we just sold and it was fairly easy taking the porta tank off and on the apparatus.
    Attached Images Attached Images   

  6. #6
    Forum Member
    FyredUp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 1999
    Location
    Rural Wisconsin, Retired from the burbs of Milwaukee
    Posts
    10,043

    Default

    I have to ask this, and seriously I mean no disrespect, but you bought this brand new tanker and no one thought about how to mount a foldatank on it until it was delievered?

    It appears that whatever you do at this point it is going to be expensive. It seems that you will need a power assisted lift in order to get the tank as low as you want. If you have any local metal fabricators they should be able to build you something suitable.

    Personally, if I ever spec a new tanker/tender I would look at a through the tank foldatank located as low as possible.
    Crazy, but that's how it goes
    Millions of people living as foes
    Maybe it's not too late
    To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

  7. #7
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Rural Iowa
    Posts
    3,106

    Default

    Duh. Thats for insightful input from Wi. Demo tanker. Bought @ $249k what would have cost $350k to spec at time of purchase is Sept 08.

    It's an Frtliner with Class 1 Pump module. Assemble by the late unlamented ALF. Waterous CAFS install by Feld Fire.

  8. #8
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Rural Iowa
    Posts
    3,106

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ejfeicht View Post
    We had the Zico Tank Lift on our tanker that we just sold and it was fairly easy taking the porta tank off and on the apparatus.
    What is the height to the cat walk on your truck?

  9. #9
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    SW Missouri
    Posts
    1,154

    Default

    Have a local machine shop build you a fold down rack on the side that has longer arms. That will do two things, make the tank/rack lower to the ground when lowered and you can leave your hard suction mounted where it is.

  10. #10
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    West Burlington, IA
    Posts
    120

    Default

    My department has two vehicles which we had tank racks added to. All work was done by Alexis (www.alexisfire.com). From the look of your tanker, its similar in height to ours. When folded down, the load height isn't awful to work with. Yeah, they're heavy to lift back up into place once loaded, however considering the other option of hoisting them overhead to load in the hosebed, lifting the rack is a snap.

    On both vehicles, they were able to modify exisiting equipment to mount the racks. We've had them in service for 5 years (IH) and 4 years (Pete).
    Attached Images Attached Images   

  11. #11
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    598

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by neiowa View Post
    Looking for design ideas for a foldatank rack. Outside of the box ideas that have worked (or not so much).

    Problem - Tanker pumper with 3000gal tank. Catwalk along side of water tank is 67" from ground. Looking for a "deployment" rack design.

    1.) Manual fold down box with large foldatank is to heavy and too high to be practical or safe.

    2.) Zico 3098 Quik Lift Portable Tank system. In stock configuration when down position the bottom of the tank is still 39" above the road and top of the tank is 67". Not down to a convent lifting height. Lift is expensive.

    3.) Zivco 3098 Quik Lift horizontal/overhead lift. In stock configuration when down position the bottom of the tank is still 69" above the road. Not a useful option. Lift is expensive.

    What other options have you used/seen to put the deployed tank in a low, accessible egonomic corrent location for FF removal/access? By truck mfg, aftermarket mfg, or homegrown. Photo appreciated.
    1) If a manual fold down is too heavy start investigating gas struts. One on each end that could hold back 50 to 100 pounds might make it easier.

    2) If you have a manual fold down design in mind, go online and look into linear actuators. A 500 pound capacity actuator with a 24" stroke only costs about $100.00. If your tank and the bracket weigh more than that, get rid of the treadplate. Actuators are not the fastest thing around but are stout and reliable. To increase the speed, increase that capacity of the actuator and move the end of the rod closer to the pivot point. Higher rated actuators move slower but using mechanical advantage can actually move a comparable weight faster with a slower unit. The newer ones can also serve as a locking device. Or, with an over center design the lock wouldn't be necessary.

    3) If you have someone on the department with some mechanical engineering experience you could create an over-center, counter balance design that would simply throw bulk and pivot points with a few springs at the problem.

    Whether you use my suggestions or not, I would advise that you tie the rack into the warning light for your open door system or deployed equipment warning light.

  12. #12
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Rural Iowa
    Posts
    3,106

    Default

    Gone thru all that. I'm actually an engineer (outside of the box type) in real life. Looking for FD created alternatives that actually worked out well. Before start cutting & welding. OR ideas didn't work out.

    Typcial treadplate manual folding rack is hinged at around 55-60" from ground With a 2100gal tank is a 3man job to safely operate.

    To be viable need to be quick, max 2FF to operate.

    CAFS truck so have 140cfm of 100psi air to available.

    A 2 arm lifeboat davit might be optimal solution. With right geometry will bring to ground level. But expensive and complicated.

    Slide in from rear box is a possible if the box is hinged at the rear and tilts (front lifts).

  13. #13
    Forum Member
    FFWALT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    Nebraska
    Posts
    357

    Default

    Have you looked at adapting one the Zico ladder racks? The Quick Lift: Ladder and Hard Sleeve lowers 31". That would start to get you down around a manageable height.

    Since you are looking for outside the box ideas, how about adapting the Zico Outside Arm Ladder rack? Granted you will have to talk with Zico to see if it would work but I'm thinking about having a pan similar to the one on their portable tank lift but having it mount on the end of the lift arms with a connection that would let it swivel. Same concept as a ferris wheel seat to keep the dump tank upright. You would need to probably implement a stop to keep it from swiveling back when putting the tank in or out. Not to mention some way to keep it secured from swinging when going down the road. You're the engineer, I'm just throwing out an idea for you to mull over.
    Train like you want to fight.
    www.kvfd.net

  14. #14
    Forum Member
    FyredUp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 1999
    Location
    Rural Wisconsin, Retired from the burbs of Milwaukee
    Posts
    10,043

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by neiowa View Post
    Duh. Thats for insightful input from Wi. Demo tanker. Bought @ $249k what would have cost $350k to spec at time of purchase is Sept 08.

    It's an Frtliner with Class 1 Pump module. Assemble by the late unlamented ALF. Waterous CAFS install by Feld Fire.
    Seriously Dude, you are an ***. I said I meant no disrespect when I asked about buying a tanker with no forethought as to how to mount the foldatank. It would have been simple for you to just come back and say we got a great deal on a demo.

    Good luck with your American LaJunk...and even more with your half *** home made foldatank rack. Couldn't find anything to cobble out of military surplus this time?

    Oh, and have a nice day.
    Crazy, but that's how it goes
    Millions of people living as foes
    Maybe it's not too late
    To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

  15. #15
    Forum Member
    FIREMECH1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    HUSKER LAND
    Posts
    2,425

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by neiowa
    I'm actually an engineer (outside of the box type) in real life. Looking for FD created alternatives that actually worked out well. Before start cutting & welding.
    Yeah, you're definitely outside the box, even in real life.

    Instead of trying to copy what others may have made, or created, how about making your own?? I also have a Bachelors degree in engineering. Am I going to share with you 3-5 ideas that may work??? I don't think so. You burnt that bridge along time ago.

    FM1
    I'm the one Fire and Rescue calls, when they need to be Rescued.

    Quote Originally Posted by EastKyFF
    "Firemens gets antsies. Theys wants to goes to fires. Sometimeses they haves to waits."

  16. #16
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    306

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by neiowa View Post
    What is the height to the cat walk on your truck?
    We sold this apparatus so I am unable to measure it. The OAH on it was 9'4" so I would estimate right around 5'6" give or take.

  17. #17
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Rural Iowa
    Posts
    3,106

    Default

    As above. Alternatives that actually been built and work.

  18. #18
    MembersZone Subscriber
    LVFD301's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    3,956

    Default

    Do you need pretty, or functional?

    1 inch square tubing, hinged. build it with 8 inches from the hinge to the base/top of the
    frame of the storage area, so it hinges OVER the hard suction.


    Takes a LOT of the weight of the diamond plate box away. 2 people
    can easily handle a 2k tank.

  19. #19
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Udall, Kansas
    Posts
    436

    Default Aluminum Frame ion the tank

    We conducted a county wide tanker shuttle drill this weekend. One tank was a 3,000 gal with aluminum frame, others were 2500 gallon with with steel frame. After loading and unloading, I will never by a steel frame again.

    Our Rosie's has the 2500 gallon steel frame and the carrier is all aluminum, 2 people can pretty easliy tilt it down and deploy. Our other tanker has a open frame carrier that we built, have to be careful with tree's.

  20. #20
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    598

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by neiowa View Post
    Gone thru all that. I'm actually an engineer

    So, that's the problem. What kind of engineer? I can't imagine a mechanical engineer asking this question. Perhaps a civil engineer? I heard that God was a civil engineer. The proof is that he ran a raw sewage discharge next to a playground.

  21. #21
    Forum Member
    Rescue101's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Bridgton,Me USA
    Posts
    8,162

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LVFD301 View Post
    Do you need pretty, or functional?

    1 inch square tubing, hinged. build it with 8 inches from the hinge to the base/top of the
    frame of the storage area, so it hinges OVER the hard suction.


    Takes a LOT of the weight of the diamond plate box away. 2 people
    can easily handle a 2k tank.
    Me being me, I'd probably use 3/4" but that's just the way I am. Like I said,with a little thought you could design a hydraulic COMPOUND lift to get the range of motion the OP is looking for. AND hang your suction if that is what you wanted. I could ALSO build the rack you're proposing in ALUMINUM 3/4 thickwall and further reduce the weight. But the price goes up. T.C.

  22. #22
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    306

    Default Ergonomics vs. Overall Cost

    Even on a limited budget you must take into account the "overall" costs of having a properly funtioning ergonomic system vs. not having one. Can a small department already operating with limited manpower afford to have one or two firefighters off the job with back injuries ? The costs of a system may seem high but in realtionship to the costs of workmans compensation claims and lost manpower are actually money well spent.

  23. #23
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Rural Iowa
    Posts
    3,106

    Default

    Industrial, Project management.

    Budget is around $5000. Not $1.95 but not unlimited.

    Object, as above, is to get the deployed lift/tank down near ground level so have mininal (egonomically correct) hand lift. Our short FF have real issues that need to consider.
    Last edited by neiowa; 03-15-2010 at 03:01 PM.

  24. #24
    Forum Member
    Rescue101's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Bridgton,Me USA
    Posts
    8,162

    Default

    Our Rosie has a nice compounded lift that puts the Ladders over the top but lets them down to shoulder level. Wouldn't be much of a stretch to modify the bracket to get a Foldatank down a little lower. I can get a pic or two if you like. T.C.

  25. #25
    MembersZone Subscriber
    npfd801's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Somewhere in Illinois
    Posts
    2,220

    Default

    Any thought about using a setup using a garage door spring? I sold a rig that had the hard suction on the rack to keep it low and accessible, which worked out fairly well.
    Last edited by npfd801; 03-15-2010 at 06:31 PM.
    "Share your knowledge - it's a way to achieve immortality." - Stolen from Chase Sargent's Buddy to Boss program

Closed Thread
Page 1 of 2 12 Last

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Power foldatank rack
    By fireinfo10 in forum Apparatus Innovation
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 02-11-2010, 01:53 PM
  2. Pump Training - Handline/nozzle rack
    By Marc435 in forum Fireground Tactics
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: 01-31-2007, 01:47 AM
  3. Hard Suction on hydraulic swing down rack
    By jfTL41 in forum Apparatus Innovation
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 05-31-2006, 06:05 PM
  4. What's Rack & Pinion Look Like?
    By rmoore in forum University of Extrication
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 04-15-2003, 09:17 AM
  5. SMC Break bar rack
    By ADSN/WFLD in forum Specialized Rescue
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 03-05-2001, 09:12 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts

Log in

Click here to log in or register