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Thread: Cleveland Fire Dept., Fire exam, July 31st, 2010

  1. #401
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    Quote Originally Posted by FIREJAWZ View Post
    Any updates on the layoff situation in Cleveland? Has the city brought back any of the laid off firefighters? What's the latest word (or speculation) on when all the guys will be recalled to work?
    http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2011..._firefigh.html

    Here's your update, 25 are back to work hopefully in the next few days!

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    Quote Originally Posted by fromCLE View Post
    http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2011..._firefigh.html

    Here's your update, 25 are back to work hopefully in the next few days!
    Here's a question... Lets say 5 retire a month (very optimistic), then all the rest of the lay offs would be back by the end of the year. This would mean that the staffing level Jan 1 would be the same as it will be on Monday. Does the SAFER grant mandate they keep staffing levels at that number, or the number it was BEFORE the grant was given? Basically if there are 775 FF's today, 800 on monday due to the grant, which staffing level will the Feds hold CFD to?

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    @fromCLE: thanks for the update. I'm happy those guys are going back to work! Hopefully it won't be too long before they recall the remaining firefighters.

    Of course, the article did not mention anything about hiring a new class. However, the article alluded to the possibility of more staffing grants in the future. Is there a likelihood that Cleveland will put on a class around this time next year? I imagine there will be a great many retirements between now and next summer. And judging from the tone of the article, it appears that the City is not comfortable with letting staffing numbers dip below 800 FFs. Any thoughts...

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    spoke with a guy from CFD the other day at work. He told me nothing on the horizon looks good reguarding a class and getting back to "where they should be" Also with as short staffed as CEMS is, CEMS has been relying on the 3 Heavy Rescue Squads (I believe CFD has 3 maybe 4) to take people in to the ER. Also he said a lot of guys on the line are talking and want to merge with CEMS. It's the higher ups and union that cannot agree. This was all from a line guy with CFD.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ffmedicmatt View Post
    Also he said a lot of guys on the line are talking and want to merge with CEMS. It's the higher ups and union that cannot agree. This was all from a line guy with CFD.
    Just a question. Why would the CFD brothers want to merge with CEMS?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ffhh74 View Post
    Just a question. Why would the CFD brothers want to merge with CEMS?
    My guess is job security and a more balanced distribution of runs/resources. I have spoken with a few CFD members about this and they say that merging CFD and CEMS would justify the department's desired staffing levels and facilitate increased funding for the department. I also get the impression that its the younger guys who are more open to merging (many are already cross-trained as medics) and that the older guys want no part of it. Not that it matters now, as it seems that merger talks have stalled altogether.

    As has been reported, 25 firefighters were recalled to duty yesterday. That still leaves approx 20 firefighters laid off. I had a chance to speak with an officer and was told that the city may recall them 1-by-1 as people retire, or, they might wait until another 20-25 retirees fall off the books and then call everyone back at once. I was also informed that about 39 people have retired this year to date. If DROP retirements continue at the present rate, we could be looking at around 80 retirements by the end of the year.

    The officer went on to say that due to various factors (e.g., SB5, demotions, stalled promotions, low staffing and overstretched resources, etc), a good number of CFD members are planning to leave BEFORE they max out on their DROP eligibility. He expects between 100 and 150 retirements between now and the end of next year. So theoretically, the rate of attrition might be higher than anticipated, potentially creating the need for a new class some time next year. Of course, I can't make any declarations and I don't intend to create any false hope. I am simply relaying pertinent information that was shared with me. Interpret it however you want
    Last edited by zarack808; 07-12-2011 at 07:42 PM.

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    Agree. Although there are a few older guys who favor it...very few. It'll (in the long run) save jobs and money. Saving money will hopefully get CFD and CEMS better stuff.

    And by save jobs I mean not layoff people. Getting more...well...

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    Default Over/Under on when CFD will hire

    What's the over/under on when Cleveland Fire will hire a new class? Will it happen before or after January 2013? I'm guessing before 2013, possibly next summer or fall.

    Just having a little fun with the topic. I'd like to get some of your thoughts...

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    Quote Originally Posted by FIREJAWZ View Post
    What's the over/under on when Cleveland Fire will hire a new class? Will it happen before or after January 2013? I'm guessing before 2013, possibly next summer or fall.

    Just having a little fun with the topic. I'd like to get some of your thoughts...
    I'd say around June 2012 if I were to venture a guess. Of course it depends on what shakes out with SB5 to a degree. but i'd believe that the city will continue to apply for grants, and try and get FEMA to help foot the bill for a class like they did before.

    probably biggest would be overall economic climate. tax revenue can go up, down more, or stay the same. if tax revenue goes down, i would not believe they'd being doing any hiring. revenue up or the same would be far more favorable.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fromCLE View Post
    I'd say around June 2012 if I were to venture a guess. Of course it depends on what shakes out with SB5 to a degree.
    June of next year sounds plausible considering the current attrition rate. And I agree that Cleveland will likely try to re-up that FEMA grant to assist with new hires.

    But I'm curious as to why you think the outcome of SB5 will have an impact on hiring. To my understanding, the bill limits collective bargaining rights of unionized firefighters (e.g., wages, medical insurance premiums, disciplinary issues, etc.). How would this either improve or reduce the likelihood of hiring new firefighters if there is a staffing deficiency from DROP? Granted, if SB5 is upheld, new cadets will be probably be hired into less favorable working conditions than before SB5 was enacted. However, I don't quite see how the new law would preclude hiring altogether.

    Barring any other unforeseen political craziness from the governor, I anticipate that Cleveland's tax revenue will remain the same - and possibly even increase over the next couple of years. The Medical Mart construction is well under way, so there is a new source of property tax and commercial activity tax. Also, phase I of the new casino project by Rock Ceasers Gaming is slated for 2012 grand opening. This, too, should generate at least a marginal increase in commercial activity and property tax revenue. Production for the Avengers movie is already underway, and I have to imagine that the city sees some kind of revenue from that. So, once we weather this Kasich budget fiasco, I think Cleveland will be headed in the right direction, at least in the short run.
    Last edited by FIREJAWZ; 07-23-2011 at 09:28 AM.

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    I mentioned SB5 because until it's resolved one way or another, it leaves uncertainty. Uncertainty = wait and see attitude. Just like the casino was paused until the CAT was figured out, most business minded folks would wait until they new the true costs of going forward with a new class. Fortunately, we'll get resolution before the end of the year, and that can only help. I guess I meant a resolution might help get the planning rolling, and the outcome may even speed up a new class in my mind. Reasoning: if it's not repealed, retirements could go up.

    Cleveland can't help but head in a better financial direction. CAT is only to be paid on earnings, not revenue/bets, and property taxes are probably greatly reduced for a while, but construction and soon service worker income taxes ought to help. There's also the construction on the Flats East Bank that will be coming to fruition in the next couple years also. Maybe an end to the NBA lockout would be on the wish list, too, along with some playoff baseball this fall to improve revenue.

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    Default Medical insurance for cadets

    I was talking today with another candidate on the list and the topic of medical benefits came up in the context of SB5. We then wondered if newly hired firefighter cadets in academy receive medical coverage, or if they have to wait until the 4 month academy class is complete to get medical insurance.

    Considering that the city has an interest in protecting its investment, even during fire academy, I am guessing that some health coverage is available. Does anyone have any good info on this?

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    Quote Originally Posted by maverick80 View Post
    I was talking today with another candidate on the list and the topic of medical benefits came up in the context of SB5. We then wondered if newly hired firefighter cadets in academy receive medical coverage, or if they have to wait until the 4 month academy class is complete to get medical insurance.

    Considering that the city has an interest in protecting its investment, even during fire academy, I am guessing that some health coverage is available. Does anyone have any good info on this?
    It is my understanding that there is no grace period before enrollment in health benefits. That may just be for the individual, as to whether a family is covered before academy is finished or not I don't know. Unlike the PAT, I don't think you can waive liability for injuries sustained during an academy, so health insurance is a lot cheaper than paying a big claim for the city.

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    Any new developments and/or rumors to report? Just trying to keep this thread alive...

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    Quote Originally Posted by zarack808 View Post
    Any new developments and/or rumors to report? Just trying to keep this thread alive...
    i think this thread is more alive than our chances of getting on CFD...

    but no I haven't heard anything and I work at one of the ER's downtown and talk to the CFD, CEMS guys a lot. No word on the merger and/or hiring.

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    Encouraging news...

    Yesterday I chatted with a CFD lieutenant about future hiring and he was very optimistic that the City will have to bring on at least one new class by next spring or summer at the latest. He said that DROP retirements are steady and picking up as the year goes on. He also said that another large number of firefighters are set to DROP in 2012. He speculated that at least a handful of firefighters might even leave before they max out on DROP if SB5 is not rescinded in November.

    The lieutenant claimed to be quite familiar with personnel and staffing needs and said the department absolutely cannot meet staffing needs going into next year without adding personnel - regardless of what the budget issues are. He hinted that the City is working on obtaining a new FEMA grant to hire new cadets, similar to the grant they had to decline earlier this year.

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    Quote Originally Posted by maverick80 View Post
    Encouraging news...

    Yesterday I chatted with a CFD lieutenant about future hiring and he was very optimistic that the City will have to bring on at least one new class by next spring or summer at the latest. He said that DROP retirements are steady and picking up as the year goes on. He also said that another large number of firefighters are set to DROP in 2012. He speculated that at least a handful of firefighters might even leave before they max out on DROP if SB5 is not rescinded in November.

    The lieutenant claimed to be quite familiar with personnel and staffing needs and said the department absolutely cannot meet staffing needs going into next year without adding personnel - regardless of what the budget issues are. He hinted that the City is working on obtaining a new FEMA grant to hire new cadets, similar to the grant they had to decline earlier this year.
    Ok maverick, I want to believe your 'encouraging news' but someone just posted on the Rocky River thread that CFD is NOT hiring from the current list. According to this person, they were told that Cleveland is going to scrap the current list and probably give another test in a couple years.

    Talk about mixed messages! So, which is it people? While I find it difficult to believe that the city would waste a few million dollars to give a test without hiring from the list; it's not unthinkable especially in this economic climate. Can someone with actual knowledge provide some reliable and accurate information about developments within CFD? It would be great to hear from an actual CFD member. But if someone else has ACCURATE info, I would appreciate some clarity.

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    I am not a CFD member but if you live in NE Ohio you would know Cleveland is a city that unfortunately lives on razor thin budgets and has been for years. Hiring always depends if the money is there to pay new cadets. The best person to ask on this forum would be Don McNea. I have mentioned this a long time ago. The guy who runs this McNea is an assistant chief in Cleveland. You could email him with your questions. He has responded to any of mine in the past to what I thought was accurate information.

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    @BrutusBuckeye: thanks for your feedback. I considered reaching out to Don McNea (he goes by dmfireschool on this forum), but his profile indicates that he hasn't been active on this forum since May, 2011. I'll send him a message anyway, but if there's anyone else out there with relevant info...i'm all ears.

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    You could try McNea's firehouse profile. I meant go to his website www.fireprep.com. Like I said anytime I emailed him through his website he responded in a timely fashion with what info he could provide. I have not tried it in a while so I cannot say for sure if I am correct.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FIREJAWZ View Post
    June of next year sounds plausible considering the current attrition rate. And I agree that Cleveland will likely try to re-up that FEMA grant to assist with new hires.

    But I'm curious as to why you think the outcome of SB5 will have an impact on hiring. To my understanding, the bill limits collective bargaining rights of unionized firefighters (e.g., wages, medical insurance premiums, disciplinary issues, etc.). How would this either improve or reduce the likelihood of hiring new firefighters if there is a staffing deficiency from DROP? Granted, if SB5 is upheld, new cadets will be probably be hired into less favorable working conditions than before SB5 was enacted. However, I don't quite see how the new law would preclude hiring altogether.

    Barring any other unforeseen political craziness from the governor, I anticipate that Cleveland's tax revenue will remain the same - and possibly even increase over the next couple of years. The Medical Mart construction is well under way, so there is a new source of property tax and commercial activity tax. Also, phase I of the new casino project by Rock Ceasers Gaming is slated for 2012 grand opening. This, too, should generate at least a marginal increase in commercial activity and property tax revenue. Production for the Avengers movie is already underway, and I have to imagine that the city sees some kind of revenue from that. So, once we weather this Kasich budget fiasco, I think Cleveland will be headed in the right direction, at least in the short run.
    SB5 will play a part in CFD hiring, if it is passed. Currently CFD's contract calls for 4 man minimum on every apparatus. If SB5 passes, staffing/manning is not a negotiable item any longer. The City of Cleveland has wanted to lower staffing to 3 per apparatus for some time-CFD has always won in the end. If SB5 passes, the City of Cleveland could do so, and that would eliminate at least 200 guys.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ECFD121 View Post
    SB5 will play a part in CFD hiring, if it is passed. Currently CFD's contract calls for 4 man minimum on every apparatus. If SB5 passes, staffing/manning is not a negotiable item any longer. The City of Cleveland has wanted to lower staffing to 3 per apparatus for some time-CFD has always won in the end. If SB5 passes, the City of Cleveland could do so, and that would eliminate at least 200 guys.
    Let's assume SB5 passes...when you say eliminate 200 guys, are you saying the City of Cleveland will do another layoff just to reduce staffing in accordance with 3 FFs per apparatus? That would be unprecedented for CFD.

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    Hopefully SB5 does not pass. Make sure you, your family and anyone else you know who is of voting age votes NO on Issue 2. With that being said, IF it passes it's impossible to say what will happen. There would be no doubt plenty of lawsuits filed by different unions across the state for various reasons in the future if the laws of SB5 are applied by cities. To say CFD or any FD would just lower the manpower automatically is hard to predict. Let's all make sure we never have to find out. Again NO on Issue 2.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BrutusBuckeye View Post
    Hopefully SB5 does not pass. Make sure you, your family and anyone else you know who is of voting age votes NO on Issue 2. With that being said, IF it passes it's impossible to say what will happen. There would be no doubt plenty of lawsuits filed by different unions across the state for various reasons in the future if the laws of SB5 are applied by cities. To say CFD or any FD would just lower the manpower automatically is hard to predict. Let's all make sure we never have to find out. Again NO on Issue 2.
    Yeah, Issue 2 looks like it will sink, but that makes voting even more important. Plenty of early favorites lose their position because people take the win for granted. November 8th is a long way away, and the ads haven't even started yet.

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    fromCle you are correct. It's a long way to November. Unfortunately Gov. Kasich and his buddies are waiting till after the 9/11 anniversary before they start putting out ads painting police and firefighters as the current enemies of the state. Again we will need the help of every Ohio state resident (on and off the job) to defeat Issue 2.

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