Cleveland Fire Dept., Fire exam, July 31st, 2010

[FIREJAWZ]

Unfortunately as of right now because of the cuts from the state of Ohio there will be no class in 2011. I wish I had better news to give all of you. When I hear something that is positive in the hiring process I will let all of you know.

Brent Collins
Assist Chief Cleveland Fire Dept.

Unfortunate indeed. Anyone think Cleveland hires a class within the next couple of years?

[ffmedicintheCLE]

doubtful...smells like 1999 all over again

[FF0055]

So with no class being brought in for 2011...And with the assumption most people whom took cleveland will be taking columbus and other cities, I wonder when it is infact time for Cleveland to put on a class,if they interview and investigate on backgrounds for changes in the past year or so, or will they end up retesting totally? Something would have to happen with the amount of retirees coming up right?

[zarack808]

So with no class being brought in for 2011...And with the assumption most people whom took cleveland will be taking columbus and other cities, I wonder when it is infact time for Cleveland to put on a class,if they interview and investigate on backgrounds for changes in the past year or so, or will they end up retesting totally? Something would have to happen with the amount of retirees coming up right?

While there's no telling when a cadet class will be hired, I doubt the city will resort to giving another test to create a new list. The city spent millions of dollars putting on this most recent test and they have a list of candidates to choose from. I'm guessing they want to have something to show for all the money and energy put into this last exam. At worst they will probably just keep this list active for a few more years and go deeper into the eligibility list for candidates if necessary. I'm sure that a good number of people on Cleveland's list will also take Columbus test. But I'd be surprised if many people on Cleveland's list also test very high on Columbus test. That's not a knock on Clevelanders, but there will be many more people taking the Columbus test and there is no preference points for residency in Columbus. Even if a few people did score very high on the Columbus test, it's possible that Cleveland will bring on a class before Columbus completes the testing, PAT, background checks, and interview process.

[FF0055]

I wish I was Tommy Gavin...Wouldnt have to worry about all this

[zarack808]

I wish I was Tommy Gavin...Wouldnt have to worry about all this

abundant liquor consumption, banging random hot chicks, a few hallucinations here and there...sounds exciting!

[maverick80]

Here's a question that is sure to interest some of you older guys (>30 years old)...

The maximum age for appointment to the Cleveland Fire Dept is 35 years, right? And only a couple of years ago the maximum age was 38. However, there were at least 5 guys over the age of 40 who were appointed in 2009 from that 1998 list. Just wondering how that was possible??

Might it have something to do with the fact that those guys called in 2009 were already certified for appointment back in 1999 before that list expired? Does having that status preserve your eligibility for hire even if you're called into academy after you exceeded the maximum age limit?

I tried looking into this on my own, but I couldn't find anything too helpful. All I know is that the city certified them for appointment in 1999 before the list expired, but didn't send conditional offer letters until years after the list expired. Anyone out there know the deal with this class? And more importantly, how might that affect the older guys on this list in light of cancellation of the this year's cadet class?

[fromCLE]

Here's a question that is sure to interest some of you older guys (>30 years old)...

The maximum age for appointment to the Cleveland Fire Dept is 35 years, right? And only a couple of years ago the maximum age was 38. However, there were at least 5 guys over the age of 40 who were appointed in 2009 from that 1998 list. Just wondering how that was possible??

Might it have something to do with the fact that those guys called in 2009 were already certified for appointment back in 1999 before that list expired? Does having that status preserve your eligibility for hire even if you're called into academy after you exceeded the maximum age limit?

I tried looking into this on my own, but I couldn't find anything too helpful. All I know is that the city certified them for appointment in 1999 before the list expired, but didn't send conditional offer letters until years after the list expired. Anyone out there know the deal with this class? And more importantly, how might that affect the older guys on this list in light of cancellation of the this year's cadet class?

It's my understanding that loophole was closed by city ordinance change a few years ago or so. You now must meet the age requirement at time of appointment, or something along those lines. Point being, there will be no 36 year olds in academy, barring a change in ordinance, unlike there was with the 1999 list.

EDIT: Found the ordinance revision:

135.071 Maximum Age for Original Appointment to the Divisions of Police and Fire
(a) No person is eligible to receive an original appointment to the academy for the Division of Police on and after the person's fortieth birthday. [RC 124.41]

(b) No person is eligible to receive an original appointment to the academy for the Division of Fire on and after the person's thirty-sixth birthday. [RC 124.42]
(Ord. No. 661-09. Passed 6-1-09, eff. 6-5-09)

Source: http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/clevel...part1_135.html

[sweetpete]

Cleveland is still bringing on a class for this year. This is coming from multiple sources very well connected to the process. I cannot say when exactly, but likely sooner than later. There is also an important caveat regarding the new academy class coming in, but I am not privileged to share that information yet. More details to follow...

Wow!! Hahahaha....you just got clowned son!! By an Assistant Chief, nonetheless. Epic. Where'd you go? Hahahahahaha.
Pete

[maverick80]

It's my understanding that loophole was closed by city ordinance change a few years ago or so. You now must meet the age requirement at time of appointment, or something along those lines. Point being, there will be no 36 year olds in academy, barring a change in ordinance, unlike there was with the 1999 list.

EDIT: Found the ordinance revision:

135.071 Maximum Age for Original Appointment to the Divisions of Police and Fire
(a) No person is eligible to receive an original appointment to the academy for the Division of Police on and after the person's fortieth birthday. [RC 124.41]

(b) No person is eligible to receive an original appointment to the academy for the Division of Fire on and after the person's thirty-sixth birthday. [RC 124.42]
(Ord. No. 661-09. Passed 6-1-09, eff. 6-5-09)

Source: http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/clevel...part1_135.html

Yes, I am aware of the revised ordinance that makes 35 the maximum age for appointment (I referenced it in my original post). This ordinance was revised pursuant to the Ohio Revised Code provision that states the same. However, 38 years was the maximum age for appointment in Cleveland prior to the revision. In either case, the 40 somethings in this last class were well over the maximum age limit when they started academy. So, there must be another loophole, right? IDK...

[fromCLE]

Yes, I am aware of the revised ordinance that makes 35 the maximum age for appointment (I referenced it in my original post). This ordinance was revised pursuant to the Ohio Revised Code provision that states the same. However, 38 years was the maximum age for appointment in Cleveland prior to the revision. In either case, the 40 somethings in this last class were well over the maximum age limit when they started academy. So, there must be another loophole, right? IDK...

can you show me anything that shows someone over 38 was in the academy? I just don't see anything out there is all.

[ArnoldFF]

I WOULD SEEK EMPLOYMENT OUTSIDE OF THE CLEVELAND AREA!

CLEVELAND - Cleveland’s firefighters are on edge after the announcement of 359 to 400 layoffs across the city.

The president of the Cleveland Fire Fighters Union Local 93 Tom Lally had a meeting with Mayor Frank Jackson Wednesday afternoon. Lally said he doesn’t blame the mayor, he blames the state.

According to the city, they plan to close fire stations, but the exact number is not known at this time. The city will also cancel the fire training academy class this year, the city said.

Cleveland Fire Department spokesperson Larry Gray said it will probably be about a week before the fire department knows exactly how they will be affected.

Lally said he is concerned about the layoffs to the fire department, as well as closing fire companies. There are 840 firefighters working for the Cleveland Fire Department.

On Wednesday, May 4, chair of the city’s public safety committee Councilman Kevin Conwell will hold a meeting to discuss the changes to the public safety forces. Cleveland Public Safety Director Martin Flask, as well as the city’s police chief, fire chief and the commissioner of the EMS, will also attend the meeting to answer questions. The meeting will start at 10 a.m. in the Cleveland City Council Committee Room in city hall.

[zarack808]

Could the Cleveland Fire Department be the most unstable gig among the "major" fire departments in the country? The past 15 years have been wrought with layoffs and litigation.

1.) The last exam given was in 1998 and due to financial problems the city went nearly 10 years before they hired off that list. The average age on the department is 46 and there is no one under the age of 33 on the department - yet they are expected to lose approx 150 personnel over the next two years from DROP.

2.) No sooner than the cadets finish fire academy in fall of 2008, they were laid off in January of 2009.

3.) In 2003 Mayor Jane Campbell laid off 150 firefighters. These firefighters were not completely recalled to duty until more than 2 years later.

4.) A firefighter exam was given in July 2010 for the purpose of hiring cadets to replace the DROP retirees. A class was scheduled to begin in summer 2011, but in April the Mayor announces the cancellation of academy. Additionally, several fire stations will be shut down and 150 police and firefighters will be laid off for up to one year.

5.) Throughout the past 15 years the Cleveland Fire Department has been mired in multiple lawsuits over alleged racial discrimination and affirmative action hiring. Some of these matters, including the affirmative action lawsuit, is still ongoing in the courts.

Do I still want this job? Hell yeah!! But this city has issues...more than your average town that's for sure.

[OHFirestopper]

Could the Cleveland Fire Department be the most unstable gig among the "major" fire departments in the country? The past 15 years have been wrought with layoffs and litigation.

1.) The last exam given was in 1998 and due to financial problems the city went nearly 10 years before they hired off that list. The average age on the department is 46 and there is no one under the age of 33 on the department - yet they are expected to lose approx 150 personnel over the next two years from DROP.

2.) No sooner than the cadets finish fire academy in fall of 2008, they were laid off in January of 2009.

3.) In 2003 Mayor Jane Campbell laid off 150 firefighters. These firefighters were not completely recalled to duty until more than 2 years later.

4.) A firefighter exam was given in July 2010 for the purpose of hiring cadets to replace the DROP retirees. A class was scheduled to begin in summer 2011, but in April the Mayor announces the cancellation of academy. Additionally, several fire stations will be shut down and 150 police and firefighters will be laid off for up to one year.

5.) Throughout the past 15 years the Cleveland Fire Department has been mired in multiple lawsuits over alleged racial discrimination and affirmative action hiring. Some of these matters, including the affirmative action lawsuit, is still ongoing in the courts.

Do I still want this job? Hell yeah!! But this city has issues...more than your average town that's for sure.

The upcoming academy being canceled and the new layoffs are not part of the citys fault, they're bracing for the wrath of senator Kasich who is about to cut the funding that all local governments get from the state. This is funding that has been in placed for many many years and local governments rely on this.

[OHFirestopper]

Who knows where the SAFER money went, maybe it will help prevent layoffs.

[zarack808]

The upcoming academy being canceled and the new layoffs are not part of the citys fault, they're bracing for the wrath of senator Kasich who is about to cut the funding that all local governments get from the state. This is funding that has been in placed for many many years and local governments rely on this.

I don't disagree that Cleveland's current budget crisis is due in large part to heavy cuts proposed by Governor Kasich. But my point was not to assign blame (although both Kasich and local Cleveland officials share some of the blame in my opinion). Regardless of who is at fault, the point is that Cleveland is always facing some kind of fiscal or legal crisis that seems to negatively impact the stability of public safety employment. This latest example is just one of many others.

As for the SAFER funds, that money is being returned to the feds. It was originally earmarked for hiring and must be used for that purpose or returned. If the City wants to receive grant money to prevent layoffs then they will have to re-apply for a grant specifically for that purpose.

[johnsmith1989]

lets hope for the best for all city workers that a resolution can be come to, so families are not affected by these cuts.

[zarack808]

100% agreed! These cuts and layoffs can cause a lot of pain to families. For some of these firefighters, this will be their second or third time being laid off in 7 years. I hope things improve soon for the city.

[johnsmith1989]

finely worded letter they sent out, a nice way of saying everyone is screwed, no one is hiring, no money, no jobs, etc.
i smell 1999 all over again too!!
lets just hope the list doesnt expire, or they extend the list for some time....that would be a nice gesture, or we will all have to go thru this stuff again....
see all of you for the columbus test!!!!

[maverick80]

finely worded letter they sent out, a nice way of saying everyone is screwed, no one is hiring, no money, no jobs, etc.
i smell 1999 all over again too!!
lets just hope the list doesnt expire, or they extend the list for some time....that would be a nice gesture, or we will all have to go thru this stuff again....
see all of you for the columbus test!!!!

Did this letter leave any wiggle room or give any reason to hope that they might do something before the list expires?