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Thread: Cleveland Fire Dept., Fire exam, July 31st, 2010

  1. #441
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    Quote Originally Posted by fromCLE View Post
    To look at your fact #2 from a different light, Cleveland has a roughly 30% larger force than Pittsburgh. Cleveland covers roughly 30% more area than Pittsburgh. Their staffing is pretty comparable from that perspective. Pittsburgh is a much better comparison than Detroit, the cities have very similar makeups in many ways. I just think way too bloated is a little harsh of a word to pick for CFD.

    I wonder if a strong candidate emerges to run for mayor in 2013 would have any effect on the re-hirings and new hires. All the gun violence has been unfortunate and sad, and been getting a lot of media attention. A mayor who struggles with safety issues tends to not be mayor for long.
    You make good points. And I would agree that "way too bloated" is maybe too strong. But speaking objectively, I still think CFD is a bit overstaffed in relation to the population. The current department size was intended for a population of at least 500,000. However, Cleveland has lost more than 20% of its population in the last 12 years. It has the fastest declining population of any major city in the nation.

    You are correct about Cleveland having roughly 30% more land area than Pittsburgh. But on the other hand, much of the area in Cleveland is sparsely populated and contains vacant lots and dilapidated warehouses. As I mentioned in my previous post, CFD has closed over a half-dozen fire companies without experiencing a noticeable deficiency in response times. Although Cleveland is a fairly large city geographically, its population is concentrated in pockets throughout the city. These pockets can be effectively serviced by strategically placed fire companies.

    I agree that an upcoming mayoral campaign might put the focus back on the safety services. The talk around town is that Frank Jackson will not be seeking re-election. So, his absence will result in a wide open field of candidates. As long as SB5 is overturned in November, the police and fire unions will continue to have a lot of political sway with the local politicians. Thus, whoever gets in good with the safety forces will have a better shot at getting elected.
    But here is the problem, the current mayor is in office until January 2014. And if the rumors are true about him not seeking re-elections, Jackson has no incentive to cater to the safety forces. FYI: the current eligibility list expires in January 2013.

    Trust me, I want this job as much as anyone else. This is my dream job and I'm high enough on the list to have a very real chance to get the job if circumstances change. But I also see what's going on around me and the talk I'm hearing from people close to the matter is not encouraging. But who knows! All we can do is stay positive, stay ready, and stay out of trouble!
    Last edited by zarack808; 09-20-2011 at 04:37 PM.


  2. #442
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    This is my first post to this forum but I have been following this thread for some time. Understandably there is concern over whether Cleveland will hire firefighters from the 2010 exam. But while the concern is warranted, the sky is not falling in Cleveland. So try to relax and be patient. The city gave the test because they know they need firefighters to replace the many people leaving due to DROP. The city will hire at some point in the foreseeable future. Someone pointed out that the eligibility list will expire in 2013, and this is true. But the city can very easily request that the civil service department extend the life of the eligibility list for an additional 1 or 2 years.

    Again, this is not a question of if the city will hire, but a question of when. And when the city does hire you can bet it will be from the 2011 eligibility list. The top 100 candidates have already been certified for appointment earlier this year and were being processed for the June Academy Class that was cancelled. Even if the eligibility list expires in 2013 without renewal, the city can still hire firefighters from the list of candidates that were certified for appointment without having to give another test. This means that if you are among this list of candidates, you are virtually guaranteed a job at some point, assuming you don't screw up beforehand.

    It was also mentioned that the city spent in excess of $3 million to give the civil service exam last year. This is true and to the best of my knowledge this dollar figure only represents the money that was paid to the testing company to develop, administer, and grade the exam. Additional monies were budgeted for recruitment efforts, radio & tv advertising, as well as exam preparation courses facilitated by CFD personnel. The city can ill afford to waste that kind of money. Moreover, the city cannot afford to spend an additional $3 million-plus to give another exam. Thus, you can bet that at least one class of cadets will be appointed from the current list. The city planned to utilize federal grant money for the new hires and is currently utilizing grant money to pay for the reinstated firefighters. Common sense tells me that whenever the city goes forward with a class, it will seek grant money again.

    Everybody relax. Things will get moving soon enough.
    Last edited by GJ_NEOhio; 09-21-2011 at 01:09 PM.

  3. #443
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    Quote Originally Posted by GJ_NEOhio View Post
    This is my first post to this forum but I have been following this thread for some time. Understandably there is concern over whether Cleveland will hire firefighters from the 2010 exam. But while the concern is warranted, the sky is not falling in Cleveland. So try to relax and be patient. The city gave the test because they know they need firefighters to replace the many people leaving due to DROP. The city will hire at some point in the foreseeable future. Someone pointed out that the eligibility list will expire in 2013, and this is true. But the city can very easily request that the civil service department extend the life of the eligibility list for an additional 1 or 2 years.

    Again, this is not a question of if the city will hire, but a question of when. And when the city does hire you can bet it will be from the 2011 eligibility list. The top 100 candidates have already been certified for appointment earlier this year and were being processed for the June Academy Class that was cancelled. Even if the eligibility list expires in 2013 without renewal, the city can still hire firefighters from the list of candidates that were certified for appointment without having to give another test. This means that if you are among this list of candidates, you are virtually guaranteed a job at some point, assuming you don't screw up beforehand.

    It was also mentioned that the city spent in excess of $3 million to give the civil service exam last year. This is true and to the best of my knowledge this dollar figure only represents the money that was paid to the testing company to develop, administer, and grade the exam. Additional monies were budgeted for recruitment efforts, radio & tv advertising, as well as exam preparation courses facilitated by CFD personnel. The city can ill afford to waste that kind of money. Moreover, the city cannot afford to spend an additional $3 million-plus to give another exam. Thus, you can bet that at least one class of cadets will be appointed from the current list. The city planned to utilize federal grant money for the new hires and is currently utilizing grant money to pay for the reinstated firefighters. Common sense tells me that whenever the city goes forward with a class, it will seek grant money again.

    Everybody relax. Things will get moving soon enough.
    GJ we are talking about Cleveland you know? Everything you said is very logical, but it's Cleveland they do things backwards.

  4. #444
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    Cleveland...hiring firefighters?? LMAO! The damn city has turned into a war zone this summer and Jackson hasn't made a peep about reloading the police department. We're talking about 9 or 10 shootings this month already, several in broad daylight. I think there were even a couple of failed child abduction attempts recently too, again in broad daylight. But Jackson has not indicated that he wants to rehire police officers or bolster law enforcement presence in the streets. If the police department is being ignored right now, then you can certainly forget about the fire department.

    Cleveland neighborhoods are gone to crap - even the decent ones are experiencing inexplicable and reckless violence. IMHO, the city is already beyond the point of redemption and is simply circling the drain. Whatever remaining stable tax base in Cleveland will move out, thus resulting in even an even smaller population and less tax dollars to fund safety services. This means more violence, arson, and medical emergencies (from the violence & drugs), but not nearly enough police and fire to handle it. In other words, Cleveland is about 5 to 7 years from becoming East Cleveland.

    Forget worrying about getting hired by the fire department. If you currently live in Cleveland, your main concern should be on how fast you can get the heck out of that black hole.

  5. #445
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    Quote Originally Posted by FIREJAWZ View Post
    Cleveland...hiring firefighters?? LMAO! The damn city has turned into a war zone this summer and Jackson hasn't made a peep about reloading the police department. We're talking about 9 or 10 shootings this month already, several in broad daylight. I think there were even a couple of failed child abduction attempts recently too, again in broad daylight. But Jackson has not indicated that he wants to rehire police officers or bolster law enforcement presence in the streets. If the police department is being ignored right now, then you can certainly forget about the fire department.

    Cleveland neighborhoods are gone to crap - even the decent ones are experiencing inexplicable and reckless violence. IMHO, the city is already beyond the point of redemption and is simply circling the drain. Whatever remaining stable tax base in Cleveland will move out, thus resulting in even an even smaller population and less tax dollars to fund safety services. This means more violence, arson, and medical emergencies (from the violence & drugs), but not nearly enough police and fire to handle it. In other words, Cleveland is about 5 to 7 years from becoming East Cleveland.

    Forget worrying about getting hired by the fire department. If you currently live in Cleveland, your main concern should be on how fast you can get the heck out of that black hole.
    hit the nail on the head.

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    Its funny to watch some of the attitudes in this thread do a 180 since last spring.

    Cleveland will hire firefighters; there is still a service to provide and runs aren't getting any lighter, not to mention the age of the department. Obviously at this point no one knows anything for sure, but imo at least one class will be off this list even if they have to issue conditional employment letters like they did for the class that got hired 10 yrs after their exam. Like mentioned before, the city won't want to let a list go to waste.

    It seems like some of you should stick to testing for the cushy suburbs. Lets not forget we are on an urban fire department eligibility list. These problems aren't anything new.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mdd2121 View Post
    Its funny to watch some of the attitudes in this thread do a 180 since last spring.

    Cleveland will hire firefighters; there is still a service to provide and runs aren't getting any lighter, not to mention the age of the department. Obviously at this point no one knows anything for sure, but imo at least one class will be off this list even if they have to issue conditional employment letters like they did for the class that got hired 10 yrs after their exam. Like mentioned before, the city won't want to let a list go to waste.

    It seems like some of you should stick to testing for the cushy suburbs. Lets not forget we are on an urban fire department eligibility list. These problems aren't anything new.
    yeah cushy suburbs where you deal with semi decent individuals, better equipment, and get paid far more. Not to mention depending on where you are probably less chance of getting laid off. But oh no you have that allure of a big city deparment fighting fire all day!

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    Quote Originally Posted by OHFirestopper View Post
    yeah cushy suburbs where you deal with semi decent individuals, better equipment, and get paid far more. Not to mention depending on where you are probably less chance of getting laid off. But oh no you have that allure of a big city deparment fighting fire all day!
    I guess that depends on what kind of firefighter you want to be and what each individual is looking for in the fire service then, right?
    Last edited by mdd2121; 09-23-2011 at 03:49 PM.

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    I can't imagine anybody getting hired anytime soon either. I live in the city and it is a dump. The residents are on their own. Mayor Jackson doesn't about public safety. Just watch the news. Everyday there are murders, rapes and fires. Lots of them and cops and firefighters are still laid off. I love this city and love living downtown but it is nasty! Just my opinion

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    Quote Originally Posted by mdd2121 View Post
    I guess that depends on what kind of firefighter you want to be and what each individual is looking for in the fire service then, right?
    Sure, fighting fires in vacant boarded up homes that some thug firebombed because he was bored and dealing with nasty low life people all day. I don't think it depends on what kind of firefighter you want to be it depends on whether or not you have any common sense to not want to do deal with that stuff or not

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    Quote Originally Posted by OHFirestopper View Post
    Sure, fighting fires in vacant boarded up homes that some thug firebombed because he was bored and dealing with nasty low life people all day. I don't think it depends on what kind of firefighter you want to be it depends on whether or not you have any common sense to not want to do deal with that stuff or not
    That's a pretty bold statement. Common Sense? or rather a lack thereof as you implied? I'd call it a matter of preference. One may argue they'd much rather "deal with that stuff" than shuffle grandma to the ER all day for flu like symptoms.

    Aside from the volume and types of runs, you will find vastly different cultures within each type of department. Hopefully you will be lucky enough to have your pick as to which best suites you.

    oh, and if you think the inner city is the only place where you'll encounter people that may not live up to your standard of living, guess again.

    good luck to all

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    Quote Originally Posted by toddrat1 View Post
    I can't imagine anybody getting hired anytime soon either. I live in the city and it is a dump. The residents are on their own. Mayor Jackson doesn't [care] about public safety. Just watch the news. Everyday there are murders, rapes and fires. Lots of them and cops and firefighters are still laid off. I love this city and love living downtown but it is nasty! Just my opinion
    You are precisely right. Mayor Jackson even admitted as much today. When responding to a Fox 8 News reporter's question about what he plans to do to address the spike in homicides, Jackson gave this statement...

    "the state-imposed budget cuts have meant that we've had to reduce some police force, but that just means that it's the community's opportunity to step-up and really have an impact on what's going on with crime in our community." http://www.fox8.com/news/wjw-clevela...tory?track=rss

    So, how exactly are residents supposed to restore the order? Vigilante justice? What a joke this guy is!

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    I love this city but it is nasty. I live downtown and it is really nasty downtown too.
    I moved from the burbs to the city in 1998 now i cant't wait to get out of here. I wanted this job just as bad as anyone else but i don't think there is a big reward here. The citizens don't give two ****s about you and neither does the city. I felt safer in rio de jeneiro this summer than i do walking in my neighborhood

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    Quote Originally Posted by mdd2121 View Post
    That's a pretty bold statement. Common Sense? or rather a lack thereof as you implied? I'd call it a matter of preference. One may argue they'd much rather "deal with that stuff" than shuffle grandma to the ER all day for flu like symptoms.

    Aside from the volume and types of runs, you will find vastly different cultures within each type of department. Hopefully you will be lucky enough to have your pick as to which best suites you.

    oh, and if you think the inner city is the only place where you'll encounter people that may not live up to your standard of living, guess again.

    good luck to all
    odds man, odds. Yes, in the burbs you are going to get your fair share of lower than normal standard people but trust me, I work in one of the ER's downtown and the amount of people that not only CEMS are bringing in but CFD bring in as well (since CEMS is short the CFD rescue trucks are just large ALS trucks) far outweight the amount of trash that say Cleveland Heights or Shaker Heights bring in.

    Now I agree. Fighting fire in a vacant structure is just dumb. Surround and drown. It'll do two-fold. 1, you are saving your guys from potential harm. 2, you are getting rid of rundown sh*tholes and therefore maybe making it a better place. Skewed thinking I know but eh, we're all a little off.

    Also, don't think that this BS about classes not happening isn't affecting the current line guys. They all want new guys to come on. There are a lot and I mean ALOT of line guys that have been on CFD for years who are just fed up with the BS runs and all of the BS in total. Same as the CEMS guys are burned out after just a few years...if that.

    Will a class happen? yeah. When? eh end of 2012/start of 2013. I'll stay where I'm at for now doing my ER thing but when I get that call sometime soon for (insert surbuban fire dept here), I won't even think twice about saying yes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ffmedicintheCLE View Post
    Will a class happen? yeah. When? eh end of 2012/start of 2013...
    @ffmedicintheCLE: Is this your own guesstimate or did someone in CFD mention these dates as a realistic time frame?

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    Quote Originally Posted by FIREJAWZ View Post
    @ffmedicintheCLE: Is this your own guesstimate or did someone in CFD mention these dates as a realistic time frame?
    sorry should have clarified it...my guesstimate I will talk to a few of the guys though when I see them about if they hear any grumbling about anything (merger, class, ect)

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    I heard that There are expected to be 100-150 CLE Firefighters retiring in the next few years.. Is this true or just some BS?

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    There are 100-150 leaving every "few years."

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    The next academy class for the Cleveland Division of Fire will be late summer or fall of 2013. For those in that first class, I hope to see you there. Until then, be safe and stay out of trouble.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GJ_NEOhio View Post
    The next academy class for the Cleveland Division of Fire will be late summer or fall of 2013. For those in that first class, I hope to see you there. Until then, be safe and stay out of trouble.
    Whats this based on?

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