Like Tree3Likes

Thread: Cleveland Fire Dept., Fire exam, July 31st, 2010

  1. #576
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    53

    Default

    I heard this was the last list that they are allowed to use the quota on.

  2. #577
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    32

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by johnsmith1989 View Post
    I heard this was the last list that they are allowed to use the quota on.
    Based on what I was told, the quota issue has not yet been resolved. According to a Plain Dealer article i read from several months ago, it seemed to suggest the court would not allow the city to use the quota anymore. But city officials still want to use it for this list, but the union is fighting the quota. It was explained to me that the court is expected to make a final decision on this pretty soon (but who knows). I can't speak to the accuracy of the info I receive, but I will say that this came from a credible source within CFD. Take it for what it's worth.

    What I do know for sure is that the city will have to send out conditional offers before mid January no matter what. As that is when the current list expires.
    Last edited by laddernhook; 12-02-2012 at 11:44 AM.

  3. #578
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    42

    Default

    The "quota" (Headen decree) was shot down in US District Court. However, it was appealed and send BACK to the district court from the appeals court for basically not following correct judicial process. You raised my concern though, which is that the list ends in January and there is no way a court will have ruled by then.

  4. #579
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    32

    Default

    The person i spoke with gave the impression that the city intends to send conditional offers before the list ends, even if the court has not given its ruling on the Headen decree. He told me that current CFD staffing levels are critically low and that the city cannot afford to throw away this list without hiring. Hopefully there will be a court ruling in time. But if not, I don't know what the legal ramifications are for sending out offers or even starting an academy before the court makes its decision.

  5. #580
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    47

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by laddernhook View Post
    But if not, I don't know what the legal ramifications are for sending out offers or even starting an academy before the court makes its decision.
    The city has to act in the best interest of the citizens and their employees, and being undermanned benefits neither. Plus assuming the two class rumors are true, they could hold that second class out to remedy any ill caused from the first class hiring, assuming the plaintiffs win, and giving the court more time to act. Just an analytical thought, not a rumor or fact.
    future fire likes this.

  6. #581
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    32

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by fromCLE View Post
    The city has to act in the best interest of the citizens and their employees, and being undermanned benefits neither. Plus assuming the two class rumors are true, they could hold that second class out to remedy any ill caused from the first class hiring, assuming the plaintiffs win, and giving the court more time to act. Just an analytical thought, not a rumor or fact.
    I agree that the city is probably inclined to bring on at least one class from this list in the absence of a ruling from the court before the list expires. Like you said, the citizens and fellow firefighters would be ill served by further diminished staffing.

    I also see your point about using the second class to correct any problems if the first class turns out to be constituted in a manner contrary to the court's eventual ruling. The problem there, however, is that all conditional offers from this list must be made prior to the expiration of the list in mid January. That means if the city is in fact hiring two classes of firefighters from this list in 2013, all the individuals slated for hire in those classes must receive their conditional offers before the list ends. If the court doesn't render a decision on the Headen quota before the city sends its conditional offers, any damage done as a result of the city's selection process will be permanent.

    I can even imagine a scenario where the city hires a class either using or not using the quota, the court later rules in a manner contrary to the city's hiring method, and the individuals on the list who were adversely affected bring lawsuits against the city. I guess the point is that lets all hope this legal stuff gets resolved quickly - for the sake of everyone who has a stake in the outcome.

  7. #582
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    42

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by fromCLE View Post
    The city has to act in the best interest of the citizens and their employees, and being undermanned benefits neither. Plus assuming the two class rumors are true, they could hold that second class out to remedy any ill caused from the first class hiring, assuming the plaintiffs win, and giving the court more time to act. Just an analytical thought, not a rumor or fact.
    City acting in the best interest of its citizens and employees? Issue 119? Decrepit firehouses? Closing/browning out companies? Civil service test that is the analytical equivalent of fingerpainting (strongly agree/disagree)? Lets at least agree the city only supports the fire department to the extent that it is necessary to have one so they can keep their jobs...

  8. #583
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    32

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Buffalo21 View Post
    City acting in the best interest of its citizens and employees? Issue 119? Decrepit firehouses? Closing/browning out companies? Civil service test that is the analytical equivalent of fingerpainting (strongly agree/disagree)? Lets at least agree the city only supports the fire department to the extent that it is necessary to have one so they can keep their jobs...
    @Buffalo: I completely understand your cynicism. I'm a lifelong Clevelander (near west side) and I am constantly amazed (although I shouldn't be) by the ineptitude of city leadership and its apparent apathy with regard to the city's public safety operations.
    Despite my frustrations with this city, I dream of becoming a Cleveland firefighter for various reasons - i love the job; there is still strong tradition in the department; and of course I want to help people. But if I get on the department and successfully complete my probie period, they better lookout because I am going to be one heckuva hellraiser. Nothing will improve until the rank and file demands it. As that old saying goes, the squeaky wheel gets the grease. No disrespect to the current firefighters, but lets face it, most of those guys are older with many years on the job. At this point in their careers, all they want to do is work their tour, get home safe, and look forward to retirement. And who can blame them?

    CFD is one of the busiest fire departments in the midwest and sees more fire and ems calls per capita than any other midwest city not named Detroit or Chicago. It's shameful to see most of the firehouses falling apart with broken pipes, sink holes in the bay, no heat, exposed electrical wiring, etc. And instead of allocating resources to fix these problems, the city jumps at every chance to shrink the department further and close companies - to the detriment of the public and the men and women responders. I, for one, won't just sit back and take it. If I get the job, hopefully I will be joined by many other young and hungry like-minded firefighters who will make it clear to the city and union that things must change.

    Sorry for the rant, but sometimes this city really gets to me.

  9. #584
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    3

    Default

    Having a chip on your shoulder before you are even hired does no one any good. I agree with the you on the condition of the firehouses but you are talking about buildings that were built fifty to sixty or more years ago. Most should probably be replaced however, with the loss of population in the City comes the loss of tax revenue. The Detroit Fire Deartment recently had to have toilet paper donated to them because the City could not pay there vendors. That is the reality today. I am a Cleveland resident and when i call the Fire Department for help i expect a professional courteus Firefighter to come to my aid, not someone so ****ed off at the City that he forgets his duty to the citzens of Cleveland. Good luck to you all.
    HPFF23 likes this.

  10. #585
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    42

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by steveng View Post
    Having a chip on your shoulder before you are even hired does no one any good. I agree with the you on the condition of the firehouses but you are talking about buildings that were built fifty to sixty or more years ago. Most should probably be replaced however, with the loss of population in the City comes the loss of tax revenue. The Detroit Fire Deartment recently had to have toilet paper donated to them because the City could not pay there vendors. That is the reality today. I am a Cleveland resident and when i call the Fire Department for help i expect a professional courteus Firefighter to come to my aid, not someone so ****ed off at the City that he forgets his duty to the citzens of Cleveland. Good luck to you all.
    Thanks for the pep talk scooter, but I'd be more worried about the guy that takes the job thinking it is all farts and sunshine than someone who is capable of being critical of something he desires.

  11. #586
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    3

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Buffalo21 View Post
    Thanks for the pep talk scooter, but I'd be more worried about the guy that takes the job thinking it is all farts and sunshine than someone who is capable of being critical of something he desires.
    Your welcome. By the way my name is Steve, Not Scooter. And if you have the privilege of serving on my Fire Department you will see that most calls these days are medical emergency calls. So get that hose out of your hand and stop thinking about fire and sharpen up on your medical skills.
    Last edited by steveng; 12-14-2012 at 08:21 AM.

  12. #587
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    32

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by steveng View Post
    Having a chip on your shoulder before you are even hired does no one any good. I agree with the you on the condition of the firehouses but you are talking about buildings that were built fifty to sixty or more years ago. Most should probably be replaced however, with the loss of population in the City comes the loss of tax revenue. The Detroit Fire Deartment recently had to have toilet paper donated to them because the City could not pay there vendors. That is the reality today. I am a Cleveland resident and when i call the Fire Department for help i expect a professional courteus Firefighter to come to my aid, not someone so ****ed off at the City that he forgets his duty to the citzens of Cleveland. Good luck to you all.
    This is a FF discussion forum, right? If I can't candidly speak my piece here on this site, then what's the point of having it?

    Now I do understand where you are coming from. But please don't assume that just because I speak critically of the City in some respects that somehow translates into being unprofessional in the field or me being incapable of performing my duties. I take seriously the duty of public service. I have high expectations for myself in that regard, and consequently, I also have high expectations and standards for the City that provides essential services to its residents.

    I also understand that funding plays a role with regard to maintaining and improving infrastructure. And yes, cities like Detroit are currently in a VERY BAD financial state. But with all do respect to the men and women who serve in DFD, Detroit is 3rd world America, and I am not okay with using that city as a comparable to Cleveland in order to make an excuse for settling for the status quo. If Detroit is our measuring stick, then we're in even worse shape than I thought. I refuse to believe that and I won't give our city leaders that excuse to ignore glaring problems that are fixable.

    As for the City having limited funds, you are correct. But please know this, as poor as the City claims to be, the City finds money for what it values. Trust me. Pet projects get funded all the time at the expense of keeping up or improving facilities and infrastructure. I don't expect brand new palacial fire stations and a new fleet of apparatus. But it's inexcusable for fire stations to literally go years without heat, or have exposed wiring, or have crumbling walls and floors - and then discipline firefighters for 'union busting' because they took the initiative to make the repairs themselves on their own dime. That, my friend, is not a money issue - that is a leadership issue.

    All I'm saying is that there are serious issues that need to be addressed, and I refuse to turn a blind eye to it. Because once you do, you become part of the problem. It's kind of like voting. If you didn't cast a ballot, then STFU!

    The bottom line is that I want the very best for the department and for the City. I won't sit back and just accept the fact that Cleveland is poor, resources are limited, I'm a probie FF who should just be seen and not heard, yadda yadda. I will learn the job, dutifully pay my dues, and be a professional in representing the department.

  13. #588
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    42

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by steveng View Post
    Your welcome. By the way my name is Steve, Not Scooter. And if you have the privilege of serving on my Fire Department you will see that most calls these days are medical emergency calls. So get that hose out of your hand and stop thinking about fire and sharpen up on your medical skills.
    Thanks again scooter... Again, it is obvious to me that you are speaking to the group of people I referred to earlier. I would think that anyone that is serious would already know that 90%+ of the calls are medical. I see why you would mention this though, because I was really squirrel-ing it up with all that talk of huge fires (see previous posts).

  14. #589
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    76

    Default

    For what it's worth, they have exactly one month from today to send out conditional offer letters, as the current firefighter eligibility list expires on January 14th. Just putting it out there.

  15. #590
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    42

    Default

    well tomorrow is the 150th anniversary for the CFD... THAT is probably what they have been waiting for, the pomp and circumstance of hiring on the day that they hired their first employees. I'll be holding my breath

  16. #591
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    103

    Default

    Laddernhook you're going to be a "heckuva hellraiser" and not a probie that is "seen not heard." You have a lot to learn a very lot. You're not going to come in with a big mouth an trying to make changes to a dept that's been functioning fine for over a century, and you're not going to come in with a big mouth around the old timers unless you want no friends and nobody to like you. You pay your dues, clean, and work hard that's how you earn respect. NOT running your mouth. Do you honestly think that the whole department is sitting back and not trying to make things better for its members? Sometimes the squeaky wheel doesn't get the oil it gets replaced. Why don't you get hired before you plan to make everything roses and change everything.

  17. #592
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    32

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by OHFirestopper View Post
    Laddernhook you're going to be a "heckuva hellraiser" and not a probie that is "seen not heard." You have a lot to learn a very lot. You're not going to come in with a big mouth an trying to make changes to a dept that's been functioning fine for over a century, and you're not going to come in with a big mouth around the old timers unless you want no friends and nobody to like you. You pay your dues, clean, and work hard that's how you earn respect. NOT running your mouth. Do you honestly think that the whole department is sitting back and not trying to make things better for its members? Sometimes the squeaky wheel doesn't get the oil it gets replaced. Why don't you get hired before you plan to make everything roses and change everything.
    Please re-read my post.

    1. I actually said "if I get on the department and successfully complete my probie period, they better lookout because I am going to be one heckuva hellraiser. Nothing will improve until the rank and file demands it." I know that there is a pecking order at any department. And I plan to abide by and learn my job to the fullest - if - I am hired.

    2. I was born and raised in Cleveland, and let me say, that the Cleveland Fire Department is an amazing group of men and women who serve the community. The service they provide is second to none. But with that said, this department has not been functioning just fine. There are a lot of problems (mostly from within City Hall) - just stop into Local 93 and chat it up with the members and see if they think the department is functioning just fine.

    3. I plan to earn my respect by paying my dues, cleaning, being available whenever needed, working hard, etc. Absolutely. But I also plan on being involved in my department as one who will work with and for my fellow brothers to improve the department where needed. Yes, I used the word "hellraiser" on purpose - because that's the only way the folks at City Hall will pay attention. But I plan to do so within the framework established. I know the department has a Union, and that Union provides opportunities for its members to get involve and make an impact. I plan to do so. What's so wrong with that?

  18. #593
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    14

    Default

    I heard that all of our files went in front of flask yesterday, anyone know anything about this?

  19. #594
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    42

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by OHFirestopper View Post
    Laddernhook you're going to be a "heckuva hellraiser" and not a probie that is "seen not heard." You have a lot to learn a very lot. You're not going to come in with a big mouth an trying to make changes to a dept that's been functioning fine for over a century, and you're not going to come in with a big mouth around the old timers unless you want no friends and nobody to like you. You pay your dues, clean, and work hard that's how you earn respect. NOT running your mouth. Do you honestly think that the whole department is sitting back and not trying to make things better for its members? Sometimes the squeaky wheel doesn't get the oil it gets replaced. Why don't you get hired before you plan to make everything roses and change everything.
    I don't know if you are on somewhere or not, but you will learn that if firemen aren't bitching, check for a pulse. Just the nature of business

  20. #595
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    76

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by workingman216 View Post
    I heard that all of our files went in front of flask yesterday, anyone know anything about this?
    I suppose we will find out soon enough.

    Anyone have a number on the candidates eliminated in the background check?

  21. #596
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    124

    Default

    Maybe it's just me, but the fact that conditional offers haven't been mailed with only two weeks before the list expires makes me a little nervous. It would seem that they had plenty of time to complete background checks, interviews and budget for an academy. I'm speculating here, but something must be going on behind the scenes to cause this delay, otherwise, why the 11th hour?

  22. #597
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    103

    Default

    I am a full time ff. I know people are going to bitch. Everyone does everywhere. But if you're gonna come in and try to make changes with a measily 2 years on. Good luck getting shunned at the firehouse. Maybe in a smaller suburban fd. Not in an older dept like cle. You're gonna get the response "get some time on kid."
    Last edited by OHFirestopper; 12-29-2012 at 10:15 PM.

  23. #598
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    17

    Default

    Whew....glad I got out of Cleveland when I did. I miss all my family and friends, but the openings for FF on the city departments, the fire houses and working conditions are awful.

    Best of wishes to everyone though! It's a great job and I couldn't imagine doing anything else. Hang in there.

  24. #599
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    CLE, OH
    Posts
    337

    Default

    Gotta get to the burbs man. CFD isn't quite "ideal" especially with the merger when it happens. The suburban depts will be hiring more in 2013 with the continuance of DROP retirements and the need to maintain what their min staffing is

  25. #600
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    14

    Default

    Im getting a bit nervous the deadline is fast approaching! Has anyone received a letter yet?

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. World Of Fire Report: 07-07-05
    By PaulBrown in forum World of Fire Daily Report
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 01-28-2010, 10:00 AM
  2. World Of Fire Report: 07-27-05
    By PaulBrown in forum World of Fire Daily Report
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 07-28-2005, 07:46 PM
  3. World Of Fire Report: 07-17-05
    By PaulBrown in forum World of Fire Daily Report
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 07-18-2005, 11:30 PM
  4. World Of Fire Report: 07-02-05
    By PaulBrown in forum World of Fire Daily Report
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 07-06-2005, 11:23 PM
  5. World Of Fire Report: 07-19-04
    By PaulBrown in forum World of Fire Daily Report
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 07-20-2004, 11:22 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts

Log in

Click here to log in or register