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Thread: Cleveland Fire Dept., Fire exam, July 31st, 2010

  1. #41
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    CFDWARRIOR: I don't believe this posting is very becoming of a CURRENT FIREFIGHTER, obviously you ARE NOT A BONAFIDE CLEVELAND RESIDENT...your statement, I quote" You must realize that many of the "residents" won't score high enough even with the extra points". I'm sure with you representing the CFD, you should retract that biased statement, however, I AM A BONAFIDE RESIDENT AND scored high enough, I'm sure there WERE plenty more "residents" that did aswell. You're inside "scoop" was very condescending. Glad your info isn't on here or I'd surely report you.


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    Quote Originally Posted by FemaleCandidate1 View Post
    CFDWARRIOR: I don't believe this posting is very becoming of a CURRENT FIREFIGHTER, obviously you ARE NOT A BONAFIDE CLEVELAND RESIDENT...your statement, I quote" You must realize that many of the "residents" won't score high enough even with the extra points". I'm sure with you representing the CFD, you should retract that biased statement, however, I AM A BONAFIDE RESIDENT AND scored high enough, I'm sure there WERE plenty more "residents" that did aswell. You're inside "scoop" was very condescending. Glad your info isn't on here or I'd surely report you.
    I can only pray that youaor any of your other self righteous, me first, oh you better not offend me pretending mutts ever get hired onto this job. People like you will never be the real deal, You are a bonafide outsider looking in and hopefully will always remain such. Theres a special place for you in a very warm place...
    FTM-PTB

  3. #43
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    Yikes! Getting tense in here...

  4. #44
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    Intense indeed...not sure how this thread deteriorated into an exchange of insults. To be sure, I typically enjoy candor and good banter like the next person, but lets try to stay on topic folks.

    Anyone have any useful information to contribute about the upcoming physical agility test?

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    MONTVILLE: I am sorry...was my response to CFDWARRIOR somehow targeted at you, I do know how these forums work, whereas it is public; however I see you also must have reservations about that 10 point bonus for residents. Hate the system not the 'mutts' your speaking of. Im sure which is code for some other descriptive! perhaps you need to be comforted. Get over it. Outside or inside has no relevance to his response, even still very irresponsible for someone in his position. Its called professionalism. As a professional Mr. CFD has lets say...an obligation, he must watch his mouth just like you have in your post 'mutts'. I will gladly keep you posted on my progress thru this challenging process, as I said I did pass the test, next stage is the agility test. You will be the first, well second...no maybe 4th to know if I continue on. Because you are so concerned, being that you are in Memphis and posting on a Cleveland based forum. Good day sir.

  6. #46
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    FemaleCandidate1
    You're going to have a VERY DIFFICULT time surviving in the fire service with your disposition. You seem to have a sizeable chip on your shoulder and a need to "put people in their place" if they say or do something that you might find offensive. Guess what? In the fire service, there will be many things said and done that are "offensive." Of course there are instances when it becomes necessary to speak up and address problematic issues. But I'm going to be honest with you FemaleCandidate...you come across as catty and a nag (that characterization might be sexist - but i think it's accurate). This particular thread did not become contentious until you felt the need to lecture CFDWarrior and threaten to "report" him for expressing his opinion. Get a grip!! If you're fortunate enough to get hired, I have one bit of advice for you: get some thicker skin!! You won't survive otherwise. Trust me.

    One more thing...this thread is dedicated to the testing and hiring process for the Cleveland Fire Department. This isn't some Facebook or MySpace page where you can trade personal rants on each other's walls. Lets keep this thread focused on the topic at hand.

    p.s. The term "mutt" is not a code word for what you think. The term has a meaning in the fire service that has nothing to do with race and/or gender. Look it up

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    I have a few questions for those out there. Has anyone taken the agility, and could you inform me how it went? I am really nervous/excited/humbled. I have never made it this far in the process. Also I heard that there was between 600-800 that passed the test. So we might not see the results for a while. I know for a fact there is still some guys who are laid off. So I guess we will all see what happens in the future. I am optimistic but realistic about the thing. I don't have residency points so thats why I am realistic about the whole thing. I know I might have a chance but its still in the back of your mind when you look at those odds....Thanks!
    Last edited by honestman; 10-27-2010 at 09:42 AM.

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    I would be willing to bet more people than that passed. They are running physicals all month for almost 12 hours a day. With 600 passing, that would break down to only about 30 people a day, thats less than 3 an hour. Im guessing/hoping/praying its going to be a more efficient process than that.

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    Well I heard from one guy 800 and another on solid authority 600. The 600 is the number I believe. To tell everyone the truth I want have Cleveland's test/agility/selection number behind me. Trust me though I want it immensely. So many rumors and some stringing along the way has made this an arduous journey. I think that this is all normal but all of the rumors I think just makes this more drawn out. Rumors of the point system, what they're going to do for the agility test and how many people are going to actually drop in 2011/2012. Along with how many they are going to actually hire too. There's others going around about when the city is going to do another test, 2 years from now or just keep plucking people off the 2010 list. I would like some definate answers but I guess I just need to be patient. Question for those out there? Is the 5 points for the Cleveland High School Exploratory Program still going to be awarded? I heard through the grapevine that it was in the court system. Is this true? If anyone know's please reply on the forum or if you would like to add anything that I mentioned please go ahead.

  10. #50
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    I wish you all the best, but being a FORMER Clevelander, my only advice is: Don't hold your breath. Keep applying elsewhere, especially if you're willing to move.

    I moved to the South (Texas) and got a great full-time position on a department for a suburb of Houston. I miss my family, but I was tired of chasing work in NE Ohio.

    If you guys have any questions or would like some info on the Texas area, let me know.

    Take care,
    Pete

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    Honestman -
    I can relate to your frustration and even exasperation at times; especially when dealing with the city of Cleveland. But the process is beginning to move along now. Just try to relax and make sure that you are adequately prepared for each phase of the testing & hiring process.
    I, too, have spoken with a couple of individuals "in the know", and I've been told that the city is still planning to bring in a decent size class for FTA in the early part of 2011. Not sure how many, as the exact number is contigent upon the DROP attrition in January.

    As for a lawsuit challenging the preference points awarded to graduates of the Cleveland Schools MLK Firefighter Program, I have not heard anything definitive. I am aware that the preference points were initially challenged prior to the exam. But to the best of my knowledge, those preference points are still in effect. The city argues that it has a legitimate interest in providing a pipeline for gainful employment for its own students. Honestly, I wouldn't worry about it either way. I am fairly certain that not very many students in this program sat for the test.

    On the other hand, the city is still in unresolved litigation with the Vanguards over the enforcement of the controversial Headen Decree (an affirmative action decree from the 1980s). The Headen Decree has technically expired, but the Vanguards sought to have the policy extended through this eligibility list. To my knowledge, the matter is still unresolved. Although I don't think it will slow down the hiring process at all.

    You say only 600-800 people passed the written exam out of 2,600 applicants? If you don't mind me asking, how credible is your source of info? Assuming you are correct, of the ~700 remaining applicants, I anticipate that less than half will max out on the available points from the CPAT (contact Cleve Civil Sevice for details on how CPAT will be scored and administered). After aggregating the CPAT and written exam scores, that leaves roughly 350 applicants within contention. Criminal background checks and medical histories will flush out another group of applicants. According to my scientifically wild @ss guess, only about 225 applicants will reasonably contend for appointment (this will include both Cleveland residents and non-residents). Not bad odds when considering that Cleveland anticipates hiring ~150 firefighters over the next couple of years.
    Last edited by zarack808; 10-27-2010 at 09:29 PM.

  12. #52
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    how is the cpat going to be scored? pass or fail? ive heard several different ways

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    To Zarack808 and toddrat1:
    My source is good about the people that passed. The PAT test is a definate pass/fail and will be added to your written score. How they'll do that I don't know? So no written score will be given just an overall score of written/agility. I guess we will all have to see about the actual final scores of all involved. I know a guy who tested in 1998 and scored in the mid 90's and had 10 residency points added to his final score and was still on the bottom of the list. So those points now are pretty crucial. I went to the Don McNea fire school and overheard a guy saying he had 15 points coming to him, 10 for the residency and 5 for military. So you guys/gals do the math. By the way, Don McNea fire school was fantastic!! I can't say enough about Chief Collins and his teaching. If your reading this Chief...Thank you!! If anyone wants to add to the thread please go ahead. Thanks to all!!

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    I served my country for seven years with three combat deployments. I hold an EMT-b and 240 card. How is it that people with zero life experiences recieve more points (10 resident 5 MLK) have a better chance then a decorated combat vet? Any imput would be appreciated.
    Last edited by kzavodny; 10-28-2010 at 04:54 PM. Reason: spelling

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    Quote Originally Posted by kzavodny View Post
    I served my country for seven years with three combat deployments. I hold an EMT-b and 240 card. How is it that people with zero life experiences recieve more points (10 resident 5 MLK) have a better chance then a decorated combat vet? Any imput would be appreciated.
    They don't receive more points, there were 5 veteran extra points available if you provided your DD214 at time of application. So you would receive the same amount of points total, if you were a resident of the city. The city will give you EMT-B training anyways, and it was my understanding the MLK program graduates would have FF2 certification to receive the credit also. And the resident credit probably discourages hundreds (or more) of out of towners (some veterans also) from taking the test and further reducing any chance you may have.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fromCLE View Post
    They don't receive more points, there were 5 veteran extra points available if you provided your DD214 at time of application. So you would receive the same amount of points total, if you were a resident of the city. The city will give you EMT-B training anyways, and it was my understanding the MLK program graduates would have FF2 certification to receive the credit also. And the resident credit probably discourages hundreds (or more) of out of towners (some veterans also) from taking the test and further reducing any chance you may have.
    I did get my five. I like in the city of brooklyn though, so no 10pts. Wouldn't it be an EO issue if MLK gets 5 and people that have there 240 card don't? Thanks for your reply.

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    The issue at hand is Vets should atleast get just as many points as residents with a max of 15. I know it would take another vet to see my point. I wrote a blank check to the USA putting my life on the line for out freedom (yes I am combat arms), but to have a guy/girl with no life experience get 10 points and a better chance then a vet..

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    Quote Originally Posted by kzavodny View Post
    The issue at hand is Vets should atleast get just as many points as residents with a max of 15. I know it would take another vet to see my point. I wrote a blank check to the USA putting my life on the line for out freedom (yes I am combat arms), but to have a guy/girl with no life experience get 10 points and a better chance then a vet..
    I'm not disputing that, I got the 5 vet points too . But I see your issue is with the residency credit more than the MLK class credit. Some cities give a lot of residency credit, some a little, some none. I have a 4 year degree, and it gives me no advantage over another applicant with a HS diploma or GED, on paper, for this test. Some tests it gives me a huge advantage. I guess just find a test that matches its extra credit best to your situation, or move to Cleveland and wait for the next test are two of the best options. I doubt the resident credit would disappear any time soon...

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    Quote Originally Posted by fromCLE View Post
    I'm not disputing that, I got the 5 vet points too . But I see your issue is with the residency credit more than the MLK class credit. Some cities give a lot of residency credit, some a little, some none. I have a 4 year degree, and it gives me no advantage over another applicant with a HS diploma or GED, on paper, for this test. Some tests it gives me a huge advantage. I guess just find a test that matches its extra credit best to your situation, or move to Cleveland and wait for the next test are two of the best options. I doubt the resident credit would disappear any time soon...
    I hope that MLK class gets thrown out. Or if it doesnt there will be an uproar from the 240 card holders. Big EO issue

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    I know that only those who passed the written exam are invited to take the physical ability test, which is being held throughout November. Does anyone know if your date for the PAT correlates with your rank on the written exam? For example, do those with the highest scores on the written take their PAT first while those with lower scores take the PAT later in the month?
    Last edited by zarack808; 10-31-2010 at 05:38 PM.

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