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  1. #1
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    Default Two 'Charleston 9' Families Seek Criminal Charges for Commanders

    Two 'Charleston 9' Families Seek Criminal Charges for Commanders

    A team of South Carolina Law Enforcement Division agents is currently reviewing records from the Sofa Super Store blaze for signs of criminal negligence on the part of fire commanders, according to The Charleston Post and Courier.

    Nine Charleston firefighters perished in the inferno on June 18, 2007.

    According to the report, family members of fallen captains Louis Mulkey and William Hutchinson gave Ninth Circuit Solicitor Scarlett Wilson eight binders of materials they say prove that commanders exposed fire crews to unnecessary and deadly risks.

    The families are pushing the SLED to reopen the criminal investigation and conduct an independent inquiry into the actions of former Fire Chief Rusty Thomas and others.

    Previous reports have faulted the actions of commanders but haven't touched on whether those actions rose to the level of criminality.

    "Those men were set up to be killed," Louis' father, Mike Mulkey. said. "We're just looking for justice and accountability here."
    I have been saying all along there should be criminal charges. Good to see the families are pushing for justice.


  2. #2
    Forum Member Rescue101's Avatar
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    WHY would I expect anything LESS? T.C.

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    So the men whose families are suing were Captains? Company level officers, so even if they were given a less than sound order they should have had the balls/knowledge/composure to say "whoa chief, this ain't looking good we need to back out."

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    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    What will be gained? The chief is gone. Changes have been, and are being, made in their operations. It won't bring any of the deceased back.

    Personally, for many years now I have lived with my own code and it is simple. I don't have to follow an order that is more dangerous than it has to be (understanding completely that this job is inherently dangerous and if you aren't willing to face it you should leave the career), or any order that is just plain stupid. I will take time off over being killed. Keep in mind I am not talking about normal ops for a structure fire. Let me give you an example, ordered to vent the roof with half the roof burned off would be an example of a stupid order that is more dangerous than it has to be.

    I am however not surprised the original poster jumped all over this. It is so very typical of his lack of style.
    Crazy, but that's how it goes
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  5. #5
    Back In Black ChiefKN's Avatar
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    Wow, I nominate this as the Trolling Thread of the Month.

    What a tool.
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

    "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

    "When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water."

  6. #6
    makes good girls go bad BLSboy's Avatar
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    Risk a little to save a little. Risk a lot to save a lot.
    Reports were there was entrapment, correct?
    AJ, MICP, FireMedic
    Member, IACOJ.
    FTM-PTB-EGH-DTRT-RFB-KTF
    This message has been made longer, in part from a grant from the You Are a Freaking Moron Foundation.

  7. #7
    Forum Member Rescue101's Avatar
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    So MANY unanswered questions. That even the follow up reports don't adequately answer. Just a terrible LOSS. T.C.

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    Interesting responses. I expected far more support of for the families of the brothers who lost their lives needlessly. Chief Rusty Thomas ran a terrible operation and it has been documented. The fire service set the bar with Alan Baird when he said "I'm only a volunteer, the regulations don't apply to me". We said regulations and standards do apply to volunteers. We need to keep that same vigilance with a paid chief as well. Why shouldn't Rusty be held to the same standards? Hi ignored everything. He used the old phrase "It works for us". "We haven't had a problem yet", and "We are different". BIG B.S., his screwed up attitude and ways of running the department directly contributed to the deaths of 9 fire fighters (and it has been documented). He needs to be held accountable Just like Alan Baird.

    Prosecuting will also send a message to any other slacker chiefs out there. Do it right or face the consequences. It's just a shame that someone has to die before action is taken.

    I wonder if the captains that perished had pointed out the problems and had complained about them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BLSboy View Post
    Risk a little to save a little. Risk a lot to save a lot.
    Reports were there was entrapment, correct?
    Yes,they also didn't have an Incident Command System. They used improperly sized hoses. The response was uncoordinated. The department lacked the proper training. Those are off the top of my head. If I dig up the report the list gets longer. The entire culture and operation at CFD was flawed and destined for failure due to lousy leadership at the top. Rusty must be held accountable.

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    Someone who doesn't know the name of the hazmat guide book used in the United States, Canada and Mexico and who didn't know what a primary search was has no right to comment on what happened.

    Maybe slacker firefighters know don't the name of the hazmat guide book used in the United States, Canada and Mexico and who don't know what a primary search is should be held responsible for their own stupidity.
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainGonzo View Post
    Someone who doesn't know the name of the hazmat guide book used in the United States, Canada and Mexico and who didn't know what a primary search was has no right to comment on what happened.

    Maybe slacker firefighters know don't the name of the hazmat guide book used in the United States, Canada and Mexico and who don't know what a primary search is should be held responsible for their own stupidity.
    So what are you saying, you don't support the families of the fallen????? You support the slacker Chief instead??

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    Forum Member Rescue101's Avatar
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    No Dumbass, THOSE of us that KNOW the business are saying there are MANY unanswered questions in the reports. INCLUDING THOSE that are far reaching enough as to be BEYOND YOUR ability to understand. I'll give you ONE example( Forgive me Charleston Brothers). HOW did 9 VERY experienced FF's get in a situation that they could not "read" in time to get out? REGARDLESS of operational strategy,hose size or bldg construction. This building WAS NOT unknown to them. No SOLE souce was the cause of this tragedy. And certainly YOU,of ANYONE here, are in NO position to pass judgement on ANY of the players . Nor comment on something you have ABSOLUTELY no comprehension of. Stick to I T before someone takes an INTENSE dislike to your BS. T.C.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rescue101 View Post
    No Dumbass, THOSE of us that KNOW the business are saying there are MANY unanswered questions in the reports. INCLUDING THOSE that are far reaching enough as to be BEYOND YOUR ability to understand. I'll give you ONE example( Forgive me Charleston Brothers). HOW did 9 VERY experienced FF's get in a situation that they could not "read" in time to get out? REGARDLESS of operational strategy,hose size or bldg construction. This building WAS NOT unknown to them. No SOLE souce was the cause of this tragedy. And certainly YOU,of ANYONE here, are in NO position to pass judgement on ANY of the players . Nor comment on something you have ABSOLUTELY no comprehension of. Stick to I T before someone takes an INTENSE dislike to your BS. T.C.
    The questions have been answered. You are in denial that a PAID CHIEF could be so screwed up. If you recall at the time there was a CFD fire fighter on these very forums telling everyone how screwed up things were there. You can't handle the truth and that is a "PAID PROFESSIONAL CHIEF" was clueless.

    Go ahead, keep your head in the sand.

    To the families of the deceased I apologize for the incentive remarks of some on these forums.

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    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    Another topic started by ScareCrow with absolutely no other purpose than to stir the pot. He has zero interest in the families or the Charleston Fire Department or its members. His sole purpose is to cause another **** storm where he gets to be the center of attention.

    The investigation was done, the chief is gone, changes have been made and are still being made. The families have received financial awards, not that that makes up for the loss of their family members, but what is to be gained at this point by prosecution? Will we prosecute every fire chief every time there is an LODD?
    Crazy, but that's how it goes
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    The questions have been answered. You are in denial that a PAID CHIEF could be so screwed up. If you recall at the time there was a CFD fire fighter on these very forums telling everyone how screwed up things were there. You can't handle the truth and that is a "PAID PROFESSIONAL CHIEF" was clueless.

    Go ahead, keep your head in the sand.

    To the families of the deceased I apologize for the incentive remarks of some on these forums.
    If you have never been on the career side of things then you have no Dog in this race. He may have very well been clueless but you have never looked to the reasons to how he got there. History is our own worst enemy and like it or not the guy at the top sometimes is the worst one in the dept to get to accept change. Changing things in a large dept takes a lot of time, like it or not. There was an artlice written some years back that addressed the issue in depth. I think it was discussing the fact that it took 5yrs to get a glove brand change completly finished in a north east large dept. The logisitical plan was there but due to vacations, sickness, rotations, workswaps, workcomp... the list just went on and on and a simple change took 5 yrs to get done. Now, look at the fact that a chief in a not-so-up to date (maybe) trained dept comes through the ranks and now is the chief, if the chief hasn't been receptive to current training trends how much progress is lost? Yes, there was a reported issue with booster line use. In 1987 my dept quit using them for initial attack. In a class I recently had with Steve Chickerotis had a picture from the sofa store fire where a FF broke out the windows to the front of the bldg (I hadn't seen it before then) but we all know what that means is going to happen. Who ordered him to open those windows? did he (the FF ) do it on his own? (seen guys do weird things before). So, like I said in the beginning, unless you are on the career side of the job leave things alone because you have no clue.
    Am I being effective in my efforts or am I merely showing up in my fireman costume to watch a house burn down?Ē (Joe Brown, www.justlookingbusy.wordpress.com)

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    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    The questions have been answered. You are in denial that a PAID CHIEF could be so screwed up. If you recall at the time there was a CFD fire fighter on these very forums telling everyone how screwed up things were there. You can't handle the truth and that is a "PAID PROFESSIONAL CHIEF" was clueless.

    Go ahead, keep your head in the sand.

    To the families of the deceased I apologize for the incentive remarks of some on these forums.
    Your the one with incentive remarks...the incentive for you is to draw attention to yourself ONCE AGAIN. By the way, MR MULTIPLE DEGREES, the word you were looking for is insensitive.

    Paid chiefs or volunteer chiefs, pay status makes no difference, either has the opportunity to be the best officer the fire service has ever seen or the worst thing to ever hit the fire service. To me it is a level of training that is important not pay status.
    Crazy, but that's how it goes
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    To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

  17. #17
    Back In Black ChiefKN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    The questions have been answered. You are in denial that a PAID CHIEF could be so screwed up. If you recall at the time there was a CFD fire fighter on these very forums telling everyone how screwed up things were there. You can't handle the truth and that is a "PAID PROFESSIONAL CHIEF" was clueless.

    Go ahead, keep your head in the sand.

    To the families of the deceased I apologize for the incentive remarks of some on these forums.
    The reality is that this is merely another opportunity for you to attack some element of the fire service.

    You have "soundbite" knowledge of this incident and have already tried and convicted people.

    You are irresponsible in your actions (as always) and are merely fishing for arguments.

    Your follow up posts prove that, beyond a doubt.

    TROLL. Plain and Simple.
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

    "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

    "When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water."

  18. #18
    Forum Member Rescue101's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    The questions have been answered. You are in denial that a PAID CHIEF could be so screwed up. If you recall at the time there was a CFD fire fighter on these very forums telling everyone how screwed up things were there. You can't handle the truth and that is a "PAID PROFESSIONAL CHIEF" was clueless.

    Go ahead, keep your head in the sand.

    To the families of the deceased I apologize for the incentive remarks of some on these forums.
    Hmmn. PLEASE enlighten me boy genius. I've read the reports. THOROUGHLY! And after reading them over and over,I STILL have questions. And UNLIKE the ALL KNOWING you,I still come back to the one question I posed. AND,I'll lend you a key long enough so you can get your head out long enough to try to find the REAL answer. Whether you like it or not the items you listed DID NOT kill those men. I've seen Chiefs give bad orders,the crew just "doesn't" "hear" the complete message,they tweak it enough to get the job done. Not enough hose(water)?You change something tactically to use less or get out. "Improper" Incident Command? LOTS of fires before put out before this became a buzzword. SO AGAIN,MR KNOWITALL; WHAT REALLY happened to the Charleston 9? NOT as cut and dried as YOU would like to make it. God Bless the 9 and their families for AGAIN giving US the gift of LIFE. NEVER FORGOTTEN, T.C.

  19. #19
    Forum Member DeputyChiefGonzo's Avatar
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    Are you that fracking stupid?

    Wait a minute.. yes, yes you are.

    I support the families of fallen firefighters. I do not differentiate like some others who post here do.
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    To the families of the deceased I apologize for the incentive remarks of some on these forums.
    If you had real concern for the families of the fallen you would have never started this thread. Sir you have no honor or soul.

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