1. #1
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    Default Help on first potential vehicle award

    Need some veterans' help. We have received a 1199A update our first potential vehicle award - a 1500 gpm 600 gal pumper and they have reduced down to $275,000. We've been having difficulty finding a quote under $400,000 for a basic engine. Before we get 10 questions, need to know if it is feasible to appeal reduction or if there are vendors out there that we don't know about that we can get the pumper for $300k out the door. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

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    We would probably need more details on what you have speced in your narrative. cab size, engine hp, etc. You can appeal a reduction, but to the best of my knowledge, there is a set limit for pretty much all classes of vehicles. I would think that you could get a nice truck for what they have offered, and then you can move above that but it comes out of your pocket. Just my 2 cents, the gurus can give you a more definate answer.

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    The only specs in the narrative is "NFPA 1901 compliant 2009 pumper, 600 gallon, 1500 gpm, 6 seats". You will have to forgive me, I am only the grant writer so I don't know much about specs, etc. Thanks for any help you can provide - if you have vendors we can try, etc.

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    Look at the program engines most manufacturers offer. We have done this and they are typically about 266-290,000.00. They are basic with usually 1000 gallon tank and 1500gpm pump. The manufacturers we have seen with these program engines are e-one, kme, pierce, crimson, marion. Extremely basic units but you can get these for that price and add on things you want as your budget allows.

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    You can get a nice type 1 engine for under that price if you go with a commericial chassis without bells and whisltes. If you want a custom engine your going to need to fork out some out of pocket.
    In 2006 we got an AFG grant for type 1 and we got an international 2007 5 man cab 1250 pumper, 750 gal tank, foam, and some other specs with from rosenbauur for like $225,000.
    Im sure the price has gone up but as soon as you get awarded you will be getting contacted by multiple companies trying to sell you a rig, just be prepared with the specs you want..

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    As the others have alluded to you're not getting a custom truck fitted to the hilt from the grant. Since the EPA changes have come in for 2010 prices have gone up but DHS will still limit you to matching on a $275k project. Any more than that and you're on your own. You can get a truck built for around that, and if you can't afford to finance your portion for a 6 person custom you will most likely win an amendment to go to a commercial chassis 5 person cab if that's all you can afford to purchase.

    You can finance your matching and overmatching so if you want to go after a $300k custom you can do that. Cash or cash equivalent is the requirement on matching, and loans are cash equivalent. If you're giving the vendor $250k in cash courtesty of the feds I don't know any of them that won't finance the rest.

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    Thank you all very much for your input - we have some great ideas to roll with.

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    To go along with what everyone has mentioned, you can get into an entry-level custom cab for under $300K. However, it's not going to be a decked-out apparatus with all the bells and whistles.

    Keep in mind, the grant program is funding the essentials needed to do the job. In most cases that's an entry-level custom or maybe a little bit of a tricked out commercial.

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    You can get a lot of truck on a commercial chassis for $275k. Appears the sticky issue is "6 seats" that was in the grant. Doubtful you can find a six seat commercial chassis which may paint you into the custom corner. I did a quick search of a few sites and found a decent program custom for "Under $260k". Not sure if allowed, but might find something really nice in a demo unit. Gurus - are demos allowed?

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    As long as a truck was never titled to a fire department demo trucks can be bought on grant awards. Probably not many left at this point but doable.

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    I have seen bench seats in the front of crew cabs commercials before. Gives you the sixth seat, but the officer doesn't get an air-ride and you lose the center console. The driver still has air-ride. Impractical-most likely. Doable. Yes. Or you could order a flip down in between the officer and driver spots, and just never use it. Creates a sixth seat, but it would never be used because the console is below the seat.

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    Quote Originally Posted by firedude801 View Post
    You can get a lot of truck on a commercial chassis for $275k. Appears the sticky issue is "6 seats" that was in the grant. Doubtful you can find a six seat commercial chassis which may paint you into the custom corner. I did a quick search of a few sites and found a decent program custom for "Under $260k". Not sure if allowed, but might find something really nice in a demo unit. Gurus - are demos allowed?
    I've seen some 4-seat commercials. They're pretty tight in the rear, but it can be done.

    Probably the most roomy I've seen is the Kenworth chassis. While the front seat area is narrower than that of a Freightliner or International, it increases as it goes toward the back to the point I think there's more room than the other two options.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BC79er View Post
    As long as a truck was never titled to a fire department demo trucks can be bought on grant awards. Probably not many left at this point but doable.
    I agree with BC79er, our neighboring dept is looking at a Custom Cab Rosenbauer Pumper right now. It's a 2009 Demo, 6man cab, 1000gal, 1250gpm midship with a 30gal foam cell. Price tag on it is right at $275,000. Not many bells and whistles but I'm sure it'll still get the job done...and on the bright side; not as much chrome to polish.

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    You can get a nicely equipped E-One Tradition ES Typhoon custom cab for $275k. Including with a Rescue body or overhead rack.

    The major mfg are building crewcab commericals with 5 seats (not 6). If you're buying a program you're not going to be writing a detailed/outside of the box chassis spec.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BC79er View Post
    As long as a truck was never titled to a fire department demo trucks can be bought on grant awards. Probably not many left at this point but doable.
    2003 KME Never owned demo from our 04 grant. 10 kw built in gen,all SS body,1500 gpm Hale, 350 HP Cum. 1000 gal ply tank, 40 gal foam tank, 4" discharge r side, less than 1500 miles most of that was coming from PA. $260,000 Keep looking. You got time.
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    Soooooo.... just reading through this here and im just about to finish picking our new class A pumper and now im worried... I asked our FEMA Grant rep about going with a commercial truck after i asked for a custom in my grant narrative. He told me they really didnt care as long as we were getting a pumper. So whats this amendment i hear talk about? i have 2 different Reps saying this was okay in writing... so is this okay?

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    If it's in writing from your FPS, you're fine.

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    Default Demo

    I was looking at what I would call the top 10 builders in the United States, and it looks like all of these guys have demos available. I am not pushing for any company more than another because they all make a pretty good product. When looking at all of the websites under demos, I think KME and Ferrara would be able to get you fixed up. I recommend you contact all of these builders to see what they got in the demo line.

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    The other good thing about going with a demo if you are in dire need is that is deliverable almost now instead of waiting 9 or 10 months for a factory fresh one.

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    Might check in to HME, they have a program line (mass produced custom cab). Most seat 6, have rescue style body with roll up doors, built in 3 line foam system, 1000 gallon tank, 1250 pump, and a bunch of other options. There are a lot of these availalbe and they are always building more. Most for under $250k so that gives you wiggle room to add options.

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