Large self propelled "portable" pumps?

[Doorbreaker]

Was thinking about some of the problems rural areas have with water shortages and locations and got to thinking about a different item. In my area of the state there are a lot of ponds and creeks that have adequate water to supply an engine. However many are located a good distance from a road or even a farm track.

Normally we either bypass these and find a closer site or set up a couple portables and fill tankers or feed a portable tank. It works but is usually not a real good solution. Then we end up with multiple fill sites.

What I got to thinking is why not take a 1000 gpm pump, stick it on a 550 chassis with 4 wheel drive, put a couple 3" and a 5" suction on it, two 1.5", a pair of 3" discharges and a 5" LDH connection. A couple hose racks for the suction and 500-1000 feet of 5" on it. Plus the tools needed for the hose and any needed adapters. And a LARGE winch just in case it gets stuck. No compartments other than a cabinet over the pump and a small one for the adapters.

Basically a BIG portable pump that you could drive down to the pond/creek/river. I can think of a LOT of times that a rig like this would be used just in our department.

Big thing would be figuring out if it can be built.

[FIREMECH1]

Would this be what you're looking for:

http://www.liquidtrans.com/pages/hiflowpump.asp

FM1

[Doorbreaker]

Along that line. I was thinking that a conventional pump might be cheaper but maybe not. I'll have to see what the pricing looks like.

[LaFireEducator]

A lot of departments in VT have done something to that affect.

They mounted a large capicity portable pump on the front of a 1 ton 4WD PU, with a hose load in the rear, as well as hard suction and the needed appliances and tools.

Some are quite simple. Others have utility bodies and are a bit more elaborate.

[FWDbuff]

What I got to thinking is why not take a 1000 gpm pump, stick it on a 550 chassis with 4 wheel drive,

Basically a BIG portable pump that you could drive down to the pond/creek/river. I can think of a LOT of times that a rig like this would be used just in our department.

Big thing would be figuring out if it can be built.

You mean, like this?

[FIRE117]

Since you are in New York and have winter weather part of the year, you may want to consider equipment (ice auger, chain saw, etc.) to cut a hole in the ice to place a drafting hose in the water.

Most FD's have to adapt to local conditions and build specialized apparatus, to meet the fire protection needs of the community.

Good luck in your endeavors!

[FFWALT]

Doorbreaker,

Our department discussed this quite a bit for a rural water supply truck a few years back. Instead we purchased a vacuum tanker which has opened up a lot of water sources that previously were not feasible. It has a 500 gpm pump and we have used it to draft and relay to the attack engine. The tanker is good for us because we 1) needed to replace a tanker, 2) it opens up some of the water sources we were looking to access and 3) we don't have to worry about where another piece of equipment will be housed.

With that said, let's get back to your questions.

We were thinking of going with a F550, 4x4, single cab with a 1,000 gpm pump (midship or PTO). Recently someone on the forums discussed using a Duramax with success. If memory serves correctly when I talked to Hale, Ford had cooling concerns on front mounts due to reduced air flow. Also limited pump capacity due to how it connected to the engine. This would be an ideal application for a front mount pump though.
One master intake, one 5" discharge, one 1" discharge (circulate water), possibly two 2 1/2" discharges and two 2 1/2" intakes. No tank, very simple.
Hose bed would hold 1,000' of 5" with a manifold (four 2 1/2' and one 5") preconnected. 3" hose to complete connection from manifold to tankers (200 to 400'). The 1" discharge would be preconnected 100' of forestry type line.
Generator and two quick raise scene lights.
Some compartments to hold: 30' of hard suction, spanners, mallet, basic hand tools, ladder (laying on ice or scaling a bank (Little Giant)), axe, chain saw, shovels. Cones for fill site and inflatable light tower. Could be compartments mounted on a flat bed or a utility box.
Concept: The water resource truck with two personnel would go to a water source near the fire, drop the manifold, hose, cones and lights at the fill point and lay LDH to the water source. Connect the hard suction and LDH to the pump and pull the 1" preconnect. Operator would establish a draft, circulate water back into the water source with the 1" and pump to the manifold. The second fire fighter would set up light at fill point if needed and establish the fill site. The manifold and hose would allow two or three tankers to be filled. One can be filling with two 3" hoses while the other one is making the connections. The cones are for safety and to mark where the tankers need to stop. This fire fighter would operate the manifold throughout the operation.

This is just what we were considering. I do enjoy these types of conversations. Good luck.

Walt

[Doorbreaker]

Walt,
Your concept is what I have been tossing around. We have planty of MA tankers along with our own. What we don't have is easily accessable fill sites. Most of them are 50-100 feet off the road in fields or down embankments. A smaller vehicle could get there but an engine with 1000 gallons of water and all the rest wouldn't make it 10 feet.

I was thinking midship pump to balance the weight better F/R. It would likely get called for a LOT of MA calls because we are not the only ones with water issues. Storage wouldn't be a big issue. We would put it in to replace an engine that hardly moves now.

[...]

Here is a department in WI that has a water supply truck that sounds like what you are talking about.

Check it out at the bottom of this page:

http://arborvitaefiredept.com/equipment.htm

Also here is a thread about large trailer pumps for water supply:

http://www.firehouse.com/forums/showthread.php?t=113095 (Trailer Pump)

[simpleguy68]

I had the same idea, with a front-mount 1000-1250GPM pump on a F550 (or maybe a 4x4 IH or Freightliner, or a military 5-ton) with two reels with 5" in the rear. Go to the fire (or highway) and then reverse lay from there to the water supply.

Go in nose first to the pond (lake, stream, etc) and drop the hard-suction. Mount a large winch to the frame in the rear to pull the truck back out when you're done.

[FyredUp]

Sister Bay Liberty Grove Fire Department in Wisconsin has been using this front mounted supply pumper for several years now.

It is a 1997 Saulsbury IH 4900 4 wheel drive chassis with a 1250 gpm front mount pump. It has a Hannay reel on the back with 4000 feet of LDH.

And no I am not on this FD. They stopped by my volly house on the way to it being delivered brand new in 1997. It really is a very cool and well thought out rig.

[FFWALT]

Must have pretty solid soil in that area. I'm not so sure we would be quite so lucky if we tried that at home. Got to like the ease of setting up the draft operation. Wouldn't be a lot of fun in the cooler weather you guys are known to get.

[MColley]

There is a department here.....Well an hour away from here but here in Nova Scotia. That have what they have dubed the "Big Flow" It is exactly what you are looking for I think. It sit on a F450 chassis I belive and I am pretty sure it carrys a pump over 1750GPM. Not being directly affilated with the department I am not sure of specs I have only seen the truck in parades. It is for getting off the road and into feilds where there are water source. (It is in a valley dept. that is surounded by farming communities.) They don't carry a lot of hose on it probably only a few hundred feet. I belive it has 8" draft lines for drafting which leads me to think it is a very high volume pump. I'm sure if you were to contact them they would be happy to share there experinces with the truck and probably the specs.

If you want the chief of that dept's contact info send me a private msg.

[Doorbreaker]

I love the picture of the rig in the pond. We have a couple rigs I'd like to do that with, although the water would need to be deeper, say 4 feet over the cab!!

[SBLGFD]

The pond is Lake Michigan. Yes pretty solid in most places. Some big drifts of cobble stone that can cause trouble, usually we can get in but might need help getting out. Putting it in the lake is rare but the water was so shallow we needed to go out a ways to get enough depth to get a good draft. We carry dual flotings, dual low flows, and dual Ice strainers, 12 inch ice auger , chain saw with a 36" bar and 64' of 6" hard suction. 1250 Hale on the front will do 1750 from draft if we give it both suctions with out to much lift. Dedicated water supply and tanker filler. No water tank. I can post more photos if you want.

SBLGFD

[FWDbuff]

I can post more photos if you want.

Yes please!

[nameless]

that's a neat looking truck. Definitely post more pictures.

[RangerJake72]

If I remember correctly Jaffrey, NH had a similar water supply pumper, flatload LDH, dual front suctions on a 1250 gpm front mount, 4WD on an IHC

[SBLGFD]

Here are some photos

[SBLGFD]

Kind of a poor picture but pumping from a irrigation pond on a golf course back to the club house that was burning. I think we were around 2000 - 2500 feet or so.