1. #26
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    Well im done with this thread. I know im not the only one who feels this way but I guess im the only one to speak up.

  2. #27
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    Default For What Its Worth

    Adam (and others),

    For what it's worth, you made some good points that I thought about over the years and was angry, too. But, thc & emtguy pretty much summed up my feelings on how I ultimately feel. Plus, I didn't catch the fact that you were at Taji with Randy Meyer in '05....come on now. I was there from '04 to '08 and promise you I know all to well what went on at Taji. You ought to be paying WSI back some money, bud .

    WSI, to the very best of my knowledge, was not paid for '24 hr' coverage (at least during your time). They billed for hours worked. If they had charged for 24 hr coverage at the rate we were being paid, they would have never been awarded, or been allowed to keep, the contract. It would have 'bankrupt' the system for lack of a better word. Or they simply would have changed our rate of pay to reflect our hours worked vs total pay.

    I chose to accept whatever the settlement ended up being because I think we may be owed a few extra bucks...if you were there in the beginning, which you were. We really don't deserve much more than that. As I stated before, there is no love lost being WSI and I, but it is was it is. They got theirs and I got mine. This stuff will eat you up if you let it. We each have our own reasons for the decision we make. I'm just tired of seeing all these FFs thinking they are owed the world for the easiest job you ever had.

  3. #28
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    THC
    you are correct, the hours you stated are the current arrangement. When the contract first kicked off though they were working a different schedule, from what i remember they were split 12's.

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by peterbound View Post
    Contract,
    you say you wish to debate, yet you do not address any of the issues that have been presented.
    1. Is it only for the money?

    2. Please produce the contract. Many of the people included in the lawsuit did not work in 05-06, does this mean that the new 'do not send in the paper work' argument will only apply to the early contract holders? Everyone, and I mean everyone, was clear to me on how i would be paid for my two years over there. My contract reflected those agreements

    3. If it is about more than that (principles) how can you justify being represented by a person that represents anything /but/ strong moral principles.

    4. If the contract argument falls through, what else will you fall back on. According to Mr. Hill the reason he is pursuing the money is due to lost over time, how will you prove this allegation.

    Just as a side note. The only time i ever heard Chicken or Beef while was over there, or even said it to the fire fighters was in a GO 1 violation situation. It's unfortunate that you encountered such a bad chain of command, but i'm sure if the issue would have been pressed Big T or Wayne would have been forced to hear you out and the overtime would have more then likely been awarded (have fun with that time sheet).

    This all comes down to people wanting more money, something i have no issue with, but they should work for the money they want, not just expect to get something for free. It seems to me that is what is going on here. If this is not the case, please present your point.

    pete
    Peter,
    1) For me it is not only about the money, it is the fact I was lied to. I want WSI to admit that fact. I was there in 2004 and we were hired on the fact of 12 on 12 off.
    2) A copy of the contract can be found on the Sass website (Lawyers for the Class Action).
    3) I am represented by no one. But I guess it can be said that I worked for a company without strong moral principles.
    4) If I do file a lawsuit and lose, then I can say I fought the good fight.

  5. #30
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    Smile Truth Be Told

    Quote Originally Posted by Outdispiece View Post
    Adam (and others),

    For what it's worth, you made some good points that I thought about over the years and was angry, too. But, thc & emtguy pretty much summed up my feelings on how I ultimately feel. Plus, I didn't catch the fact that you were at Taji with Randy Meyer in '05....come on now. I was there from '04 to '08 and promise you I know all to well what went on at Taji. You ought to be paying WSI back some money, bud .

    WSI, to the very best of my knowledge, was not paid for '24 hr' coverage (at least during your time). They billed for hours worked. If they had charged for 24 hr coverage at the rate we were being paid, they would have never been awarded, or been allowed to keep, the contract. It would have 'bankrupt' the system for lack of a better word. Or they simply would have changed our rate of pay to reflect our hours worked vs total pay.

    I chose to accept whatever the settlement ended up being because I think we may be owed a few extra bucks...if you were there in the beginning, which you were. We really don't deserve much more than that. As I stated before, there is no love lost being WSI and I, but it is was it is. They got theirs and I got mine. This stuff will eat you up if you let it. We each have our own reasons for the decision we make. I'm just tired of seeing all these FFs thinking they are owed the world for the easiest job you ever had.
    Outdispiece,
    1) No one was at Taji from 04-08, (Not one person who was stationed there stayed from 2004-2008)so there goes your credibility (Unless it was a typo).
    2) To the best of my knowledge, WSI was a subcontractor for KBR who was under a cost plus contract with the government. KBR Paid WSI for 24 hour coverage for each person employed in a operations capacity.
    KBR paid all its operations employees 24 hours a day, and they had the contract, in fact KBR wanted WSI to pay its employees 24 hours a day, this is information from the number 2 KBR fire manager.
    3) Changed our rate of pay? WSI could not do that because the base 40 hour pay for LOGCAP Contracts are pre figured for each job title, only the hours worked can be adjusted.
    4) Bankrupt the system? Ha, ha, KBR was paid billions and billions of dollars, something like 100 billion dollars (Please do not quote me on this as I will have to research this to get a better number).

    WSI was also required to provide uniforms which they did not do until late 2005 and when they did the Vice President from Florida came to Taji and told us he was the one who got them, but in truth it was a requirement in the contract all along.

    This stuff does not eat me up at all, I just like the truth being told.
    Last edited by Contract Firefighter; 03-23-2010 at 01:46 AM. Reason: Misstatement

  6. #31
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    1. I don't know anyone that was stationed there from 04 - 08 but i do know 2 guys there where there from 06 - 09, so it's not that far fetched.
    2. You are correct on the cost plus, however, the contract switched to fixed cost in 08. This again bring ups the question, are you only fighting for the people in the early days, or for everyone in the contract/suit?
    I have never heard from anyone in KBR (Ken or RC or any of those cats) that they wanted to pay out that way.
    KBR pays their employees for time worked as well, both fire fighter and operations. They make no money on their days off, yet they are getting paid from the Army the same way WSI did. They are required carry radios during off time and follow the same standards that WSI did. Should they be in the lawsuit?
    3. Seems like a logical answer
    4. Well, if anything can be learned about KBR and 'bankrupting the system' is that it can be done. They mismanaged the money so badly, and paid out in such excess that they underbid Dyncorps and Fluer by 900000 for the Afghanistan contract and the army told them to **** off. So yes, the system can be bankrupted, and was done so.

    From all these arguments i get this:
    1. Things were crappy in the beginning. This does not seem all that surprising. It was a new contract and a new war. Were the logistics messed up? Heck ya, were the schedules not ironed out, nope. Did you really expect to go to a war zone and have everything running smoothly right away?
    I was a military fire fighter deployed over there during that time, and if anything the contract fire guys had it way better than us, the only difference was we showed up with our gear.
    2. You want an apology, here goes:
    We are sorry.
    3. You want money for time you didn't work, but you still feel you are owed. This is the hardest thing I've been trying to wrap my head around. I don't understand how you want money that you didn't work for. This seems insane to me. I understand there are valid arguments for the guys during the stand up. The 12's seemed crazy to me when it was explained to me at Taji (ya i was there) but so did the fire fighters driving buses and all the nonsense that was going on out at station 2 (which i'm sure you want these guys feel they should get paid for)but to just want money because the company made money off of you is kooky to me. That is why they are there as are you.. to make money. Good for them.
    Last edited by peterbound; 03-23-2010 at 02:43 AM.

  7. #32
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    1) Yes I know the same 2 people 06-09.

    2) LOGCAP III is cost plus and was never changed. I believe it was Ken I talked to. KBR Pays 24 hours a day, if there was manpower issues you worked another shift (24 Hours).
    3) Yes.
    4) KBR Underbid the others (Fluor & Dyncorp) because they have been doing LOGCAP Contracts for years and know what it cost's to build bases and support them down to a penny. The Army did not give them the Contract because of all the issues with performance in Iraq.

    On the other things.

    1) I never once said anything about conditions, just conditions of employment in my contract.
    2) I never said I want a apology. Just WSI to admit they did not honor the contract.
    3) You need to campaign in your city's government and say you will not pay the firefighter's for 24 hour shift work, just 16 hours. I would never had a problem if they had 2 shifts 12 hours each.

  8. #33
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    Default Clarification

    I was in Iraq with WSI from July '04 till late in '08. I didn't mean to imply that I was at Taji the entire time; if I did, it was unintentional. I'll politely take my credibility back.

    By 'bankruptcy', I simply meant if we were paid the same hourly rate for 24 hours a day, WSI wouldn't have been awarded that contract. It would have been too expensive.

    As far as how WSI was paid, there doesn't seem to be a consensus. I won't speculate any further because I certainly don't know for sure.

    You are correct about the uniforms; I bought my grey t-shirts, too. We did get those sweet hats, though.

    So, where does that leave me (us). I still think we are owed a few bucks for that time that we were working 12's. If I recall correctly, it was about 6-8 months (from my timeline).

  9. #34
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    Default Re: Clarification

    Outdispiece, I guess we are on the same page then.
    Thanks for the clarification, I was hoping it was something like that. I take half the responsibility, as after you clarified yourself, I can see where the misunderstanding came from.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lasko189 View Post
    What I want MORE then money is for WSI to have to publically answer for there screwed up labor practices.
    So, if the final outcome of your new lawsuit is that WSI answers publicly for being evil, then you won't care if you don't get a dime? OR if you do get money, you'll donate it to some charitable organization? If not, then you're full of sh*t.

    For future reference:

    What I want MORE then (than) money is for WSI to have to publically (While "publically" is an acceptable variant, "publicly" is the more normal and accepted spelling. I'd love to give you the benefit of the doubt and think you knew that going in, but I can't) answer for there (their) screwed up labor practices.

  11. #36
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    Contract
    When the TO swapped from 139 to 159 the fixed cost was put into place. Don't believe me, call over there and ask, i just got back a few months ago.

    The way i interpret it is that they did honor their contract. They were required to provide 24 hours of fire protection serviced to the army. The way the went about doing that (in your time frame) was splitting the shifts. The base was covered for 24 hours. /That/ is what the intent of the contract was, not that they had to pay people 24 hours a day every day.
    Same thing with the 16/OT, the base was covered, and the individuals were paid if worked. The contract was honored. This wasn't some crazy idea that they came up with on their own. This pay scheme had to be ran through both KBR and the Army contracting before it could be put into effect.

    The KBR thing, absolutely due to mismanaging money. Their performance wasn't so much of an issue (i found your train of though off when in one second you can claim they 'been doing LOGCAP for years, and know how to build a base down to the penny' then claim they were not re-contracted due to poor performance), trust me, I had to sit thru the VTC's with Guy and Larry explaining the 'new quality direction' they were heading. In these meetings the bidding did come up, and the money issue was the most d@amning aspect of KBRs reputation, not the performance, if anything thats all they had going for them.
    The government also wanted to break up the KBR monopoly that was present. Hence the division of the country (Afghanistan) to two contractors.

    The local fire stations are salary, as a contractor you were not. You were paid for Time Worked. Never once was i confused about this idea. Never once did it seem fuzzy or unclear to me. It was explained and written in my contract. 16 Hours anything after i get OT. Seemed to make sense. At my rank i worked /every day/ i should get paid for 24 hours a day for all the time i was there? That's ridiculous, i didn't work at night, unless i got up for a call, in which case i was paid.
    The local fire fighters are paid over time (same as you were) if requested to stay or work another shift (as were you). So the OT aspect is fairly similar.

    You need to be honest with yourself and just admit the fact that you want more money from WSI. This moral high ground you are trying to stand on just won't hold your weight.

  12. #37
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    While I will gladly take any money I get out of this settlement, if it comes down to getting paid for what I actually WORKED, I'd owe WSI some serious money!

  13. #38
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    Thumbs down

    Quote Originally Posted by Contract Firefighter View Post
    Outdispiece,
    1) No one was at Taji from 04-08, (Not one person who was stationed there stayed from 2004-2008)so there goes your credibility (Unless it was a typo).
    2) To the best of my knowledge, WSI was a subcontractor for KBR who was under a cost plus contract with the government. KBR Paid WSI for 24 hour coverage for each person employed in a operations capacity.
    KBR paid all its operations employees 24 hours a day, and they had the contract, in fact KBR wanted WSI to pay its employees 24 hours a day, this is information from the number 2 KBR fire manager.
    3) Changed our rate of pay? WSI could not do that because the base 40 hour pay for LOGCAP Contracts are pre figured for each job title, only the hours worked can be adjusted.
    4) Bankrupt the system? Ha, ha, KBR was paid billions and billions of dollars, something like 100 billion dollars (Please do not quote me on this as I will have to research this to get a better number).

    WSI was also required to provide uniforms which they did not do until late 2005 and when they did the Vice President from Florida came to Taji and told us he was the one who got them, but in truth it was a requirement in the contract all along.

    This stuff does not eat me up at all, I just like the truth being told.
    Do not quote you due to lack of research??? OOPS!! THERE GOES YOUR CREDIBILITY...
    I love that the forums haven't changed!! Greatest soap opera ever!!!!

    Outdispiece....Monkeys forever fella...

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    Default off subject

    Sorry in advance...but I just gotta know...how was the food over there? I could put up with alot as long as I was well fed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by blaker19 View Post
    Sorry in advance...but I just gotta know...how was the food over there? I could put up with alot as long as I was well fed.
    Most places don't suck, some are actually pretty damn good. There's plenty of it, so you won't go hungry.

    Just make sure you get your well fed ***** to the gym also.

  16. #41
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    Yes wonderful food (g) but it did beat my having either kool aid or reconstituted Strawberry milk for cereal that I had for an IO deployment in 80.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ffbobbyhill View Post
    Do not quote you due to lack of research??? OOPS!! THERE GOES YOUR CREDIBILITY...
    I love that the forums haven't changed!! Greatest soap opera ever!!!!

    Outdispiece....Monkeys forever fella...
    that is so true. I love that even after all these years, its the same BS, with a couple of the same names. haha.

    and just remember, firefighters, no matter who or where you work:
    we get paid for what we KNOW, not what we DO. haha

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    so, back to the topic at hand. When exactly are we suppose to get this pay out? And does anyone know the Taxing on it 27% or what?

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    Pete,

    My accountant told me 15% of the award, if any, is due to the IRS. As far as state tax... depends on your state, some states have no income tax.

    The exclusion deadline has come and gone, I wonder how many actually followed through. Remember the 14th of April is the deadline for accepting (postmarked by).
    Thank you to the brave men and women of our great military, past, present and future for allowing my right to express my opinion and my opinion only, not representation of any company I may work for.

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    Default Opt Out

    There is a small group that is trying to start another lawsuit with another lawyer because they don't like what is being offered. I believe there is about fifty of them...so at least that many opted out.

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    I dunno. I saw their website and it only looked like about 2 guys have actually denied the lawsuit and received full membership status.

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    You may be right. Fifty was just a ballpark number based on their 'membership'. I know that number may be skewed; I was a 'member', but represented guys that were not opting out.

  23. #48
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    Default Show me the money

    This is funny! You know what? Pay me beioutches. I want the cash, because I don’t turn down money. WSI is so shady, maybe when some of you guys get a little higher up in the food chain you will see the evidence. I just want money, is that so hard to say. The rest of you high horse riders can turn it down… more for me.

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    Default too funny!!!!!!!

    So I found myself bored tonight and decided to see what was new in the old Iraq/WSI/"Combat Firefighter"(LMFAO)/ETC ETC ETC. To my surprise you guys still find time to argue, but not argue, lol. About BullS**t that holds no water or any type of substance. Here are a few things I would like you guys to remember about the reason you were in Iraq. This is the comment I heard the most. I came over here to show my support for the War/Armed Forces. (With the exception of those that served before/prior military service.) They were the only guys that had the balls to say and I quote "I am here to make money".


    Wow I just got dragged in............

    P.S. Remember the people you worked with some good, some not so good. So think about who you are talking to and trying to get you point across to. If you guys didn't learn that in Iraq, there is no hope for you guys...


    I signed a contract stating I would get paid a set amount and received more than what I agreed too. Unlike many of those wanting more money, because you spent it all on your RR's, buying new vehicles, motorcycles, etc. I managed my money and it was well worth it.

    I degress, Well lots of love to all and if you get your money and it makes you happy that's you choice. Don't let anyone take that away from you, now if we could let Adam have his thread back it would be greatly appreciated.

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    Anyone hear anything more about this? I thought we were going to start getting some funds by now.

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