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  1. #1
    MembersZone Subscriber TruckeeT2's Avatar
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    Question MM Platform Ladders

    Our company is looking into replacing our 1986 Mack/Baker 95' scope. We are looking at all our options and would like to hear if you have a similar truck and if you have had any major problems with it or if you were completely satisfied. Looking for durability and reliability. All input is welcomed here.

    Seagrave 95' Scope
    Pierce 95'
    Crimson 100'
    ALF 100'
    E-One 95'
    Sutphan 100' or 110'
    Seagrave Re-chassis


  2. #2
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    While I would be concerned with the future (and we are), we purchased a 93'MM ALF/LTI in 2006 and have had very good luck. We've had a few minor issues and we were concerned getting parts was going to slow us up, but alas, in the end the truck has missed very few days. The unit itself is well made, and a great truck to operate. Our only concern will be how issues are resolved in the future. We've not had anything to specific complain about through the Tilton take-owner or the closing of locations, but some of the parts/service ordering seems disjointed.

    As far as the capabilities of the truck? We're very happy. A lot of detailed specs and knowing what is important to your FD will steer you in the right direction.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by RFDACM02 View Post
    We've not had anything to specific complain about through the Tilton take-owner or the closing of locations, but some of the parts/service ordering seems disjointed.
    If you have any problems getting spare parts for your LTI, give these guys a call. Most of the guys at 10-8 formerly worked at LTI before ALF came into the picture.

    http://www.10-8evs.net/

  4. #4
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    Hasn't Crimson had some problems with their roller system vs. slides?

    LTI's are awesome but will they be around 5 yrs from now or even 1? It would be nice to have some Idea.

    A lot of FD's are remounting their Scopes and glad they did. Never worked on one but you guys that have seem to love'em.

    Call Merriam, Ks about their 95' E One. (your list will get shorter)

    We have some people around us that love their Sutphan MM's. They always seem to stay loyal to them when replacing or adding to their fleet.

    You might consider an RK/Toyne built.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by baja320 View Post

    LTI's are awesome but will they be around 5 yrs from now or even 1? It would be nice to have some Idea.
    I think LTI will be around in some form or another, as many others would be willing to use them if they were an open source.



    Quote Originally Posted by baja320 View Post
    Merriam, Ks about their 95' E One. (your list will get shorter)
    I know of a few more that likely fit that statement.

    Quote Originally Posted by baja320 View Post
    You might consider an RK/Toyne built.
    That would be a love/hate relationship. Love to have a Toyne, not so excited about RK aerials. Too bad they're the only open source aerials.
    Quote Originally Posted by LeadOff View Post
    If you have any problems getting spare parts for your LTI, give these guys a call. Most of the guys at 10-8 formerly worked at LTI before ALF came into the picture.

    http://www.10-8evs.net/
    Thanks, I'll keep that handy, so far things have been OK, but we're still waiting or the other shoe to drop.

  6. #6
    Forum Member CaptOldTimer's Avatar
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    Stick with Pierce or Seagrave, leave the others beside the road in the dust!!
    Stay Safe and Well Out There....

    Always remembering 9-11-2001 and 343+ Brothers

  7. #7
    MembersZone Subscriber ffmedcbk1's Avatar
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    remount the baker.

    it is the best tower out there. i run on a 03 stuphen and we bought that and not a seagraves b/c we wanted a pump on it and the options were better for a quint set up on the sutphen vs. the seagraves. those that remount i hear are not very disappointed.
    Originally Posted by madden01
    "and everyone is encouraged to use Plain, Spelled Out English. I thought this was covered in NIMS training."

  8. #8
    MembersZone Subscriber TruckeeT2's Avatar
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    Our Aerialscope was a demo unit and has done everything we've asked it to do. Looked into remounting it and i see that mostly everyone that has done that has loved their choice. Hearing both negative and positive information about crimson. Pierce seems like a strong truck. Not a big fan of E-One because of what everyone says about it. Little worried about the future of ALF/LTI.

  9. #9
    Forum Member Rescue101's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptOldTimer View Post
    Stick with Pierce or Seagrave, leave the others beside the road in the dust!!
    IF Seagrave was building their OWN ladder(Outside the 'scope) they MIGHT have my consideration. We're QUITE happy with our Smeal.99' horizontal reach on a 100' Ladder. Not bad. T.C.

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    Seagrave was working on the design of a new aerial tower (Apollo II) but I'm not sure this is still in the works or not. This may have gone away when the CEO changed last year.

  11. #11
    MembersZone Subscriber TruckeeT2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rescue101 View Post
    IF Seagrave was building their OWN ladder(Outside the 'scope) they MIGHT have my consideration. We're QUITE happy with our Smeal.99' horizontal reach on a 100' Ladder. Not bad. T.C.
    Don't think we'll be getting a smeal due to a really bad experiance with them when we purchased our 2003 pumper.

    LeadOff- Do you have any info about the Apollo II? Even if it may not be happening

    What does everyone think about crimson? Good or Bad? How long have they been making platforms?

  12. #12
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    LTI, AI, TeleSqurt, Squrt and Snorkel parts and service. Five former LTI service/refurb employees with over 100 years of combined experience.

    http://www.firelineequipment.com/ind...41b8d9a3b16b14

    http://www.firelineequipment.com/index.php?pID=663

  13. #13
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    Syracuse has had over twenty Sutphen towers since 1972. We run six of them, all 95' with 1500gpm pumps, plus three spares. Very rugged and reliable under heavy urban use.
    "SYRACUSE - An ISO Class One Fire Department"

  14. #14
    Forum Member Rescue101's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TruckeeT2 View Post
    Don't think we'll be getting a smeal due to a really bad experiance with them when we purchased our 2003 pumper.

    LeadOff- Do you have any info about the Apollo II? Even if it may not be happening

    What does everyone think about crimson? Good or Bad? How long have they been making platforms?
    Some of the LTI guys migrated over to Crimson. PM me about the Smeal,I have questions. T.C.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by FireLineEquip View Post
    LTI, AI, TeleSqurt, Squrt and Snorkel parts and service. Five former LTI service/refurb employees with over 100 years of combined experience.

    http://www.firelineequipment.com/ind...41b8d9a3b16b14

    http://www.firelineequipment.com/index.php?pID=663
    Thanks, I'm starting to make a longer list of potential suppliers and knowledge sources "just in case". We were really pleased with everything and everyone in Ephrata and are in hopes that somehow LTI makes it out from under the ALF shadow.

    While I haven't heard much from any users of Crimson's aerials, I was impressed with the features and functionality of their MM demo unit. This was one year after our process chose the ALF.

    As I've stated in numerous other tower posts, I'm really hung up on the bucket being as functional as possible:
    1. This means it cannot be a true rectangle and must have a large lip edge on the leading three sides. This cuts out a few builders right off, though a few are wising up and putting angled front on to facilitate entry/exit from the bucket when off perpendicular to the work surface.
    2. The master stream should be manually controlled by a tiller bar vs. handwheels and electronics, allowing for faster more accurate movements. Many builders also shy away from this complaining of lateral forces, to which one must raise an eyebrow. If they're scared, you should be too. Those that aren't scared are not lucky or stupid, but have studied and engineered for this.
    3. Range of motion. MM to MM this is close except when it comes to getting the bucket onto the sidewalk. With a Scope you likely enjoy some of the best scrub area, a few others don't take this into account as well as some. If you never plan to put the bucket on the sidewalk, then this is not a factor. But why wouldn't you?

    These are just a few of my points that have everything to do with function and nothing to do with names.
    Last edited by RFDACM02; 03-22-2010 at 03:57 PM.

  16. #16
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    You're very fortunate that you are starting this process about the same time the show season ramps up. This will allow you to travel to a show and view all of your choices and see what you like or dislike. Considering where you live the Harrisburg show is a good choice and is only a short 2 months away, or the FDIC show which is in late April.

    One thing you want to be aware of is the overall weight of the truck. The Midmount Platforms can be some of the heaviest firetrucks on the road. There is a very wide range of weight between the manufacturers you have listed.

    Also you want to make sure the waterway is protected by some means in order to prevent damage from parapets, etc.

    Finally contact the dealers in your area and schedule demos in your town. Now that the weather has broken and the snow is gone, most of the manufaturers are moving their demos "back north".

  17. #17
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    Crimson has three distinct pieces, Spartan cab/chassis (Charlotte, MI), Crimson Aerials (Lancaster, PA), and Crimson Fire (Brandon, SD). The Crimson Aerials plant was started by Jim Salmi who was with LTI for a long time. Jim is now the CEO of Crimson. The Crimson aerial tower is essentially considered to be an "improved LTI". Salmi was allowed to make improvements to the LTI design when he set up with Crimson, something he couldn't do at LTI after they were bought by ALF years back. The Crimson Fire plant in SD was formerly Luverne. There are mixed views about this part of Crimson and some consider this piece to be Crimson's weakest link. Crimson has been selling a lot of apparatus to some large fire depts in Dallas and Arlington, TX, and more recently have large contracts with Chicago.

    I used to get updates on the Apollo II from Tom Shand when he was with Seagrave. Tom is no longer with Seagrave so I've lost track on what's going on with this new aerial tower which was supposed to be similiar to the old Seagrave Apollo except that is was supposed to be lighter in weight but still a heavy duty ladder tower. The weigth of the old Apollo was a significant issue due to the excessive front axle weight for the rear mounts. When Jim Hebe took over at Seagrave a while back, he dropped the Apollo due to low sales figures. Later, when Scott Mintier took charge at Seagrave, he wanted to get back in the aerial tower business and directed work on the design of the new Apollo II. Now there's another CEO at Seagrave so the work on the Apollo II may not be progressing any longer. Not sure what's going on up there right now.

  18. #18
    MembersZone Subscriber TruckeeT2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeadOff View Post
    Crimson has three distinct pieces, Spartan cab/chassis (Charlotte, MI), Crimson Aerials (Lancaster, PA), and Crimson Fire (Brandon, SD). The Crimson Aerials plant was started by Jim Salmi who was with LTI for a long time. Jim is now the CEO of Crimson. The Crimson aerial tower is essentially considered to be an "improved LTI". Salmi was allowed to make improvements to the LTI design when he set up with Crimson, something he couldn't do at LTI after they were bought by ALF years back. The Crimson Fire plant in SD was formerly Luverne. There are mixed views about this part of Crimson and some consider this piece to be Crimson's weakest link. Crimson has been selling a lot of apparatus to some large fire depts in Dallas and Arlington, TX, and more recently have large contracts with Chicago.

    I used to get updates on the Apollo II from Tom Shand when he was with Seagrave. Tom is no longer with Seagrave so I've lost track on what's going on with this new aerial tower which was supposed to be similiar to the old Seagrave Apollo except that is was supposed to be lighter in weight but still a heavy duty ladder tower. The weigth of the old Apollo was a significant issue due to the excessive front axle weight for the rear mounts. When Jim Hebe took over at Seagrave a while back, he dropped the Apollo due to low sales figures. Later, when Scott Mintier took charge at Seagrave, he wanted to get back in the aerial tower business and directed work on the design of the new Apollo II. Now there's another CEO at Seagrave so the work on the Apollo II may not be progressing any longer. Not sure what's going on up there right now.
    Your talking about the Crimson MM 100' in being the weakest link for Crimson?

  19. #19
    MembersZone Subscriber TruckeeT2's Avatar
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    Has anyone worked with or known someone that has worked with a Re-Mounted Aerialscope?

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    Quote Originally Posted by TruckeeT2 View Post
    Your talking about the Crimson MM 100' in being the weakest link for Crimson?
    No, definitely not. I was refering to the body plant in SD which used to be Luverne. I'm personally not sayng that this part of Crimson is indeed their weakest link but many I have talked to about Crimson do feel this way.

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