1. #1
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    Default Rosenbauer pumps

    We will soon be purchasing a new combination wildland/structure attack vehicle. We are looking very close at the Rosenbauer NH40 pump. I have heard that an aluminum pump such as this does not have the life expectancy that the more common cast or bronze pumps have. Anybody have input on this?

    Thanks!

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    I live in Colorado where there are a lot of RB Timberwolves with the NH pump. No problems with the pump. Remember that the pumps may be new in the US but have been used in the European market for decades.

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    Buy American for your pump would likely be a logical practice. You'd order your chassis a Magirus diesel just because it would make Rosenbauer happy (or even to save a few $ today)?

    You're likely buying for at least a couple decades. Hale, Waterous, Darley pump parts, without any doubt, will be available 20 years from now. You can retrofit many things on a pumper but the engine, trans, pump? No.

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    Rosenbauer pumps have been around for longer than most people realize. IMO they are more likely to be around in 10 or 20 years than any of the American made pump mfg. Even if Rosenbauer should choose to stop selling them in the US market (they wont) they will certainly take care of you for repair and maintenance. Call people who have their pumps and ask them.

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    Default Rosenbaur Pumps

    We have on order a new Rosenbaur Timberwolf with the Rosenbaur pump and we would not put any other pump in the truck. After researching the different pumps available and the capabilities of each pump the Rosenbauar was our hands down choice. My personal opinion is that people are so set in their ways that they really dont investigate things and just do things because that is what they always have done. Just my opinion though!!!

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    When a Scott or MSA works just fine and does all that is required, I'm not going to buy Drager or ISI just to be progressive. Same for Boeing vs Airbus; S&W/Colt vs HK or any other trendy eurotrash out of some socialist nirvana. The "got to better than what some unwashed hick Yankees have been doing" is BS.

    UK or Japan, We can talk.

    Remember Alfa, Fiat, Renault, CitroŽn, Opel (or Yugo) ?

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    Consider one thing. If we as consumers don't do our job and properly research a product choice, and then fail to make the best choice, we are hurting the capitalistic form of economy we so dearly love. Buying the best product with little regard for where it comes from is good because it forces domestic mfg to step up their game. If an American company can develop a superior product than our exports increase and its good for our economy. But they will have little incentive to develop better products if we "buy American no matter what"

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    Quote Originally Posted by fireinfo10 View Post
    When a Scott or MSA works just fine and does all that is required, I'm not going to buy Drager or ISI just to be progressive. Same for Boeing vs Airbus; S&W/Colt vs HK or any other trendy eurotrash out of some socialist nirvana. The "got to better than what some unwashed hick Yankees have been doing" is BS.

    UK or Japan, We can talk.

    Remember Alfa, Fiat, Renault, CitroŽn, Opel (or Yugo) ?
    If you dont investigate how do you know that it works just fine? You dont marry the first woman you see just because she works just fine. You date and find the right one that is compatible to you! The fire service is the same. There are tons of different companies that sell equipment. One brand works better for one department because of price or service or whatever the reason as compared to a different brand. Investigate to determine if what you are buying is the best or just because it is tradition. Your department will progress if it does this. My department was that way for a long time. We never investigated anything and just bought what the local salesman told us to buy. We had junk equipment and were always behind the eight ball. After we started looking into all of our options not just what one salesperson told us our situation improved dramatically. Currently my department is one of the best equipped and trained in the southern Colorado region.

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    DN fire49 ---- can you list what makes the rosy pump so much better than say a Hale or a waterous ? If I can buy an equal product made in America compared to an import - its a no brainer. Maybe im missing something - but all three of the American pump builders are still building a quality product.

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    Quote Originally Posted by slackjawedyokel View Post
    DN fire49 ---- can you list what makes the rosy pump so much better than say a Hale or a waterous ? If I can buy an equal product made in America compared to an import - its a no brainer. Maybe im missing something - but all three of the American pump builders are still building a quality product.
    I never said that the American pump builders made an inferior pump. Every one of our other pumps is a hale or waterous. The particular application in which we were putting this new pump was a better fit with the NH 40. In our opinion the American pumps were not equal. The NH is a 3 stage pump, instant high pressure, auto prime, non electric, and it worked very well with the fix mix foam system. We wanted good foam capability and we do not like the CAFS because it is a very labor intensive system. In my post the only thing I was saying was that you have to investigate things and not just assume. Just because it is not made in America does not mean that it is not a good product. I am a very hardcore advocate of buying American, but I also am an advocate of buying the best product to serve my needs. Keep an open mind to all things. If you see something "new" in the fire service investigate it. Bring the product to your firehouse and demo it. The worst thing that might happen is that it wont be what your department is looking for and you move on to the next thing.

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    I'm going to do the best I can to be fair to everyone involved here. In the interest of full disclosure, I sold Rosenbauer for a while, and have nothing against the product, but like some of it better than others. I now sell for another brand, but I think before anyone calls me out for selling something else, I feel I have friends at Rosenbauer that will stand behind my claim that I'm not here to badmouth them. My department also owns two General Safety built Rosenbauers, one of which runs an NH pump. Hence my desire to post, as I'm the house Captain of a station that has ran an NH pump since 2006.

    In Rosenbauer's defense, we've had issues with our pump that were operator error and Rosenbauer stood behind taking care of these issues in a BIG way. Another positive for Rosenbauer. Really, General Safety was very, very good about this. I'm confident that what was done to our pump would have wounded anyone's product, American or not.

    However - the NH pump takes some getting used to. I suggest before anyone buy one, take advantage of the chance to really pump one. I mean it, don't just play with a demo for a few minutes, really work it. I really like the priming system, which makes you look like a pro during drafting ops. But the pump sounds different than your conventional pump, "feels" different to those that have experience with an American pump. I'm not saying that's a fault, but something you need to experience for yourself. I'm sure some of our differences are also related to the fact that our NH unit is PTO driven (rear mount), and the pump is right there next to you when pumping - not in a closed off pump compartment shielding you from the sounds and noise of a pump working hard.

    The Fix Mix system is a decent low cost system. If you buy this, remember - because of the method with which it "draws" foam into the pump, as soon as you introduce a positive pressure to the intake side of the pump, you no longer have foam producing capability. In hindsight, and again - my department's error - we wanted the ability to generate class A foam while using hydrant pressure. We can't unless we put a 3" into the direct tank fill, which certainly won't give us the rated capacity of the pump.

    Our mechanic states that because of the construction of the pump, much of the wear rings and other replaceable items you have in a Hale or Waterous pump aren't there. I don't tear apart fire pumps for a living, so investigate this for yourself.

    If anyone at Rosenbauer thinks my comments are out of line, please let me know and I'll correct them. Overall, for our desire when we made the purchase to be able to pump and roll and such, the NH does some neat things. In hindsight, we NEVER pump and roll and knowing what I know now, I would have probably bought a conventional split shaft rear mount pump.

    Fair enough?
    "Share your knowledge - it's a way to achieve immortality." - Stolen from Chase Sargent's Buddy to Boss program

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    So, in other words, the "fixmix" foam system is an "around the pump proportioner".

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    Quote Originally Posted by dnfire49 View Post
    I never said that the American pump builders made an inferior pump. Every one of our other pumps is a hale or waterous. The particular application in which we were putting this new pump was a better fit with the NH 40. In our opinion the American pumps were not equal. The NH is a 3 stage pump, instant high pressure, auto prime, non electric, and it worked very well with the fix mix foam system. We wanted good foam capability and we do not like the CAFS because it is a very labor intensive system. In my post the only thing I was saying was that you have to investigate things and not just assume. Just because it is not made in America does not mean that it is not a good product. I am a very hardcore advocate of buying American, but I also am an advocate of buying the best product to serve my needs. Keep an open mind to all things. If you see something "new" in the fire service investigate it. Bring the product to your firehouse and demo it. The worst thing that might happen is that it wont be what your department is looking for and you move on to the next thing.
    Great you're an "early adopter"/"lighthouse customer"/trendsetter. Fun, exciting, and has keep the Japanese electronics business operating for years. For those of us spending tax $ for equipment that will be in our station for the next 20-30 years that isn't prudent. Give me rock solid not trendy.

    The US fire service largely abandoned (except for limited special needs) 2 stage pumps years ago. Modern single stage pumps provide the pressure/volume need in nearly all applications.

    When I was shopping in 2007 for a large tanker pumper with rear mount CAFS Rosenbauer sent me a specs for a "similar" unit in Co on a IH 7600 Extended cab. Might have been your FD. Looked nice BUT was a Central and had the multistage Rosenbauer PTO pump ("gain pump and roll"). Ignored the major items in the our spec. NO and NO And the foam was their "almost CAFS" system as described above. In other words NOT CAFS. Again NO. Perhaps just the local dealer

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    Your statement of largely abandoned two-stage pumps is not correct. Some FD's still prefr them.

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    Default Old 2 Stage Waterous

    We have a 400 gpm 2 stage Waterous on a 1988 Pierce Minuteman - we use it both on grass fires (high pressure ~ 300-400 psi/200 gpm) and use to be our enine on structure fires (150 psi/400 on the plate, added additonal 2.5" discharge and was able to get 500 gpm/150 psi).

    2 Stage pumps still have their uses - we are looking at refurbing and going to the Rosenbauer pump. For pump and roll (which I've been on 5 rangeland fires in the past 2 days) the extra pressure is nice to have the reach when hitting the head fire.

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    Hi
    The Rosenbauer NH-40 pump developed in Europe gives this economy class commercial fire truck pump and roll capabilities, even in reverse. The pump can be midship mounted or rear mounted depending on customer preference...This pump have good features and
    Some of the other features are not quiet as high-tech, but make all the difference to firefighter safety and efficiency. These include color-coded Kochek caps and adapters, vented discharge caps, hinged aluminum hose...



    -------------------------------
    need pull out storage drawer

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    Quote Originally Posted by fireinfo10 View Post
    When a Scott or MSA works just fine and does all that is required, I'm not going to buy Drager or ISI just to be progressive. Same for Boeing vs Airbus; S&W/Colt vs HK or any other trendy eurotrash out of some socialist nirvana. The "got to better than what some unwashed hick Yankees have been doing" is BS.

    UK or Japan, We can talk.

    Remember Alfa, Fiat, Renault, CitroŽn, Opel (or Yugo) ?
    Remember TOYOTA? Sooner or later everybody screws up,T.C.

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