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Thread: Wow. Just wow.

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    unreal bullsh i t.

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    There are several other articles out there. Sounds like a big ****ing contest, which is the last thing needed in public safety.

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    Forum Member FWDbuff's Avatar
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    This was already posted over "at the other site." Apparently this FD and the Sheriff's Office (it should be noted NOT the local Police Dept) have a bad history with one another.

    Additionally, I have to agree with G.W.'s assessment of the situation: whether or not they have a bad history of interaction, the Deputies ordered the FD out, period. Since there was no danger (like at a traffic accident or other similar situation) and the Medical Call was for a woman who was beaten a few hours ago (therefore no immediate medical emergency) the Fire Captain should have heeded the warning and vacated and filed a complaint through his chain of command.
    "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

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    I realize we don't have ALL of the facts in this scenario, but if I'm initiating patient care and am asked by law to leave, they better have a REALLY good reason for me to abandon that patient.

    Colorado law only gives the sheriff responsibility for search and rescue operations and wildfires in unincorporated areas; and even then, it's questionable if those apply within special taxing districts.

    This happened within an incorporated town. The FD has absolute jurisdiction and it's not up to the Sheriff's department to decide who they call for a medical emergency; especially when their own protocol is to call the local FD.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FWDbuff View Post
    This was already posted over "at the other site." Apparently this FD and the Sheriff's Office (it should be noted NOT the local Police Dept) have a bad history with one another.

    Additionally, I have to agree with G.W.'s assessment of the situation: whether or not they have a bad history of interaction, the Deputies ordered the FD out, period. Since there was no danger (like at a traffic accident or other similar situation) and the Medical Call was for a woman who was beaten a few hours ago (therefore no immediate medical emergency) the Fire Captain should have heeded the warning and vacated and filed a complaint through his chain of command.
    I've been reading a lot of the material Statter has posted, and it seems things aren't quite as clear as one might thing. One report I read stated the woman had a broken neck, which is an immediate medical emergency.

    There's also a report that says dispatch protocol is that fire responds to assist EMS for medical responses at the jail. But, at the same time, there's contreversy over that as I read the FD self-dispatched when they heard the ambulance dispatch and there's accusations the sheriff is telling his dispatchers to disregard protocols.

    While I agree the captain should have probably just walked away, it seems the the deputy is overstepping his jurisdiction as well, unless he's a licensed provider recognized by the Colorado Bureau of EMS.

    I will stand by my previous post, a big ****ing match that has no place in public safety.

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    Funny how a paramedic leaving the back of an ambulance to see why it's not moving (because a jacka** state trooper had stopped it) is accused by many here of abandonment, but those same people think an EMT should just leave a patient on the say-so of a deputy with no medical training.

    Is there any possible logic that explains holding both positions, other than a reflexive belief that the cops is alluws right?

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    Quote Originally Posted by NewHampshireFF View Post
    Funny how a paramedic leaving the back of an ambulance to see why it's not moving (because a jacka** state trooper had stopped it) is accused by many here of abandonment, but those same people think an EMT should just leave a patient on the say-so of a deputy with no medical training.

    Is there any possible logic that explains holding both positions, other than a reflexive belief that the cops is alluws right?
    The deputy was an EMT, the captain was an EMT. No abandonment issue there.

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    Sounds like a bad deal, hope the sheriff’s office gets slapped down by the DA.

    One thing that caught my eye "The two other fire crew members left the scene after they were threatened with jail, too."

    At least on my crew this would be bull*****, if my officer got locked in the poky, you better believe that my driver, the other firefighter and me would be sitting in there with him. Actually they would probably have to taser my driver, he is a bull.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Catch22 View Post
    The deputy was an EMT, the captain was an EMT. No abandonment issue there.
    Did the deputy have the equipment necessary to assist?

    Apparently the deputy wasn't a very good EMT, since the ambulance crew had to call the other two firefighters back to assist. Apparently, they weren't as "unnecessary" as he thought.

    Once again I am grateful for my state's statutes, which specifically give control over any EMS call to the fire department.

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    Catch22, where are you getting your additional information? I'm curious to read more about this.

    Also, if the deputy is an EMT, he is not nationally registered, which has been a requirement for new EMTs in CO since 2004 (? or around there?)... which could mean that he was already a licensed EMT in CO before that time and was grandfathered.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NewHampshireFF View Post
    Did the deputy have the equipment necessary to assist?

    Apparently the deputy wasn't a very good EMT, since the ambulance crew had to call the other two firefighters back to assist. Apparently, they weren't as "unnecessary" as he thought.

    Once again I am grateful for my state's statutes, which specifically give control over any EMS call to the fire department.
    I have no idea. However, what care was he able to provide in handcuffs? There's a time and place to throw your weight around, that probably wasn't one of them (on either side). They successfully made the whole county look bad.

    I too am grateful I don't have to deal with kind BS.

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    Since they've already been caught lying about which crew was at the scene first, and been forced to reverse themselves, I'm not sure I'd believe anything the Sheriff's office says.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Firetacoma1 View Post
    Catch22, where are you getting your additional information? I'm curious to read more about this.

    Also, if the deputy is an EMT, he is not nationally registered, which has been a requirement for new EMTs in CO since 2004 (? or around there?)... which could mean that he was already a licensed EMT in CO before that time and was grandfathered.
    Statter911.com has several links. Somewhere I think I read the deputy had 18 years of fire/EMS experience. I don't know how long he's been an EMT, though. Of course, I remember reading he was fired from the FD not long ago and is training the other deputies to be firefighters, which I'm sure didn't help matters.

    The more you read, the more you'll see the apparent issues in that county's public safety system.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NewHampshireFF View Post
    Since they've already been caught lying about which crew was at the scene first, and been forced to reverse themselves, I'm not sure I'd believe anything the Sheriff's office says.
    I liked that one. If you're going to say the ambulance was there before FD, you probably better make sure your boss (the sheriff) is going to say the same thing when the media comes hounding.

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    Thanks, I'll check it out.

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    Actually, you can even be reflexively pro-cop and still think the deputy was out-of-line. The Leadville PD seems to be stepping up nicely, with the Police Chief springing the Captain from lock-up, and city PD officers accompanying the FD on calls to prevent a repeat of this nonsense.
    Last edited by NewHampshireFF; 04-02-2010 at 02:38 PM.

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    Those links are interesting. I've never been the biggest defender of unions in the fire service, but how is what the Sheriff is trying to do anything but union-busting?

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    The Colorado EMS page EMT search engine does not show anyone by that name as being an EMT, checking steve, steven, stephen.

    And although my crew would clamor to get in the cell with me, a good officer would tell them to get back in the rig and call the Chief or Mayor.

    I think I would have one heck of a protest in front of the jail, and be offering my attorneys phone number to the patient.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LVFD301 View Post
    The Colorado EMS page EMT search engine does not show anyone by that name as being an EMT, checking steve, steven, stephen.

    And although my crew would clamor to get in the cell with me, a good officer would tell them to get back in the rig and call the Chief or Mayor.

    I think I would have one heck of a protest in front of the jail, and be offering my attorneys phone number to the patient.
    That may bring up a whole new set of issues.

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