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  1. #1
    MembersZone Subscriber dfd701's Avatar
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    Default Left Over Funds?

    When I requested for the award funds to be transferred to the bank they asked what I was going to buy. I put down some mobile units on top of what I was awarded. They denied the request so I went back and took out the units and only put down the awarded equipment. Then they transferred the funds to the bank. I am going to have a good bit of money left over because the prices has fell some and mostly things are so slow that everyone wants to make a sale. So why canít I add the mobile units to the RFPís? I already know about what the venders are going to bid. Seems to me that as long as I buy exactly what was awarded then that shouldnít be a problem. If you can get a lot more equipment for the same amount of money then that is using the grant money wisely. Donít you all think so? If they do give me the ok to use the left over funds on the same scope of equipment I want get as good of deal as if I was buying a lot of equipment at one time. What are the chances AFG will want me to send the lift over funds back to them? I never had this problem before but this is not a normal year is it? Jim you ran across this how did you handle it? All I am trying to do is get the best deal for the grant money and they are giving me a hard time. One vender had the answer to the problem. Like Jam said I am being too honest with AFG but I sleep well at night and I donít need any more problems so I will follow the rules. Donít like it though.


  2. #2
    Forum Member islandfire03's Avatar
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    Too many questions to give you an answer. Are these excess funds left over after you purchased the scope of your award?
    Are you talking about mobile radios for apparatus?
    Did you fill the scope of your grant before finding out you still have money in excess?

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    You can spend 5000 on anything related to your grant with out getting permission. You can also use the money towards fire prevention, you will need to look this part up in the guidence to get the specifics of what they want. Finally do nothing so other people can get funded.

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    MembersZone Subscriber dfd701's Avatar
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    Islandfire; I have not competed scope of the grant yet. Going to send out the RFPís in a day or so but I pretty much know what the venders are going to bid. Should have enough money left to add a new P-25 mobile unit in six of the trucks. I know what SLY is going to say. ďwhy didnít you ask for the mobiles in the app. to start withĒ and that is a good question. Frankly I didnít think I was going to get the communication grant because this was the third year I tried. Put all my time on the other two grants, the ones I thought would be awarded. Through this one together at the last minute because I didnít want it to go to waste. I was so rushed to get it in I just missed it. I still will have the money to get them if AFG lets me use the left over funds. Just would be easier to get them with one RFP at one time.

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    MembersZone Subscriber dfd701's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by admpaul View Post
    You can spend 5000 on anything related to your grant with out getting permission. You can also use the money towards fire prevention, you will need to look this part up in the guidence to get the specifics of what they want. Finally do nothing so other people can get funded.
    Oh that is a good one admpaul. This is a problem that I wish I had in my personal life. I donít know what left over funds is. Maybe that is my problem. Never been there. Actually I did run across this in my 03 grant where I had money to buy more spare air tanks with the money but sure donít remember having any trouble with AFG. I have the same regional rep. that I had back then and she is great to work with. I guess I should call her before I get all up in the air about this.

  6. #6
    Forum Member SLY4420's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dfd701 View Post
    I know what SLY is going to say. ďwhy didnít you ask for the mobiles in the app. to start withĒ and that is a good question.
    Oh, big bad mean Sly isn't gonna say that!

    What was awarded in your original project? If it was radios, you're expanding on that project and you can do it without question. If it was denied, you need to get clarification on why. Sometimes, it's as simple as a misunderstanding with many of the things DHS doesn't approve. Had a $20,000 reduction reinstated today over the phone just because they needed more clarification. Very nicely handled by DHS.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dfd701 View Post
    Islandfire; I have not competed scope of the grant yet. Going to send out the RFPís in a day or so but I pretty much know what the venders are going to bid. Should have enough money left to add a new P-25 mobile unit in six of the trucks. I know what SLY is going to say. ďwhy didnít you ask for the mobiles in the app. to start withĒ and that is a good question. Frankly I didnít think I was going to get the communication grant because this was the third year I tried. Put all my time on the other two grants, the ones I thought would be awarded. Through this one together at the last minute because I didnít want it to go to waste. I was so rushed to get it in I just missed it. I still will have the money to get them if AFG lets me use the left over funds. Just would be easier to get them with one RFP at one time.
    That is why they denied the request. You have to complete the scope of the project first, before you can use excess funds to expand on the project.

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    MembersZone Subscriber dfd701's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SLY4420 View Post
    Oh, big bad mean Sly isn't gonna say that!

    What was awarded in your original project? If it was radios, you're expanding on that project and you can do it without question. If it was denied, you need to get clarification on why. Sometimes, it's as simple as a misunderstanding with many of the things DHS doesn't approve. Had a $20,000 reduction reinstated today over the phone just because they needed more clarification. Very nicely handled by DHS.
    Maybe I do need to call before I send out the RFPís. Sure would be easier to get it all at one time. What about what admpaul said about the 5 grand because the way I am thinking it should be around 8 grand under budget. Well around that anyway I did add some options to the repeater that I didnít get a price on. No I donít think you are mean SLY. Just jman thinks that. What happened to him or she anyway? Just the way they wrote seemed like a woman to me. I may be wrong but when have you been called mean by a man. A man calls you an axxhoIe or M.F. or something like that. I have been called a lot of four letter words but not that ďI was just mean or donít attack meĒ Only women say that along with a few more choice words. Good night to all. It is late where I am at.

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    An explanation of excess funds and the 4 options available are located on pages 63-64 of the PG..

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    Forum Member islandfire03's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by onebugle View Post
    That is why they denied the request. You have to complete the scope of the project first, before you can use excess funds to expand on the project.
    Exactly the answer I was looking for. If you haven't spent the AFG money to complete your original project you cannot have excess funds. I know you already have prices , but until you go out to Competitive bidding and review the bids received "OFFICIALLY" you do not know how much your grant package will cost, hence you can't know how much excess there is.
    Government logic ,I know , buts thats the way the game is played and those are the rules we have to follow. Also if they see that much excess they may wonder if you were padding the request unnecessarily.

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    dfd701, if I'm reading your post correctly, you have requested funds before you have bought the equipment. If that is the case, then your doing it wrong, you are only to ask for funds when 1. you are asking to repay your own account after you have bought the equipment or 2. you have an invoice in hand that says balance due in thirty days or something to that affect. This will help you keep track of all funds and keep from over spending the grant money. Good accounting. To me it sounds like your putting the cart before the horse.

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    If you are writing over say....four or five sentences please be sure to create a new paragraph as it is easier on the eyes. And the word is Vendor.

    Sorry to nit pick and I don't normally, but trying to read all of your questions in that first post and the responses in later posts almost made my eyes bleed.

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    Red face Careful

    Does AFG have a tendency to keep excess funds over $5,000 if it hasn't already been transferred to your account?

    They say AFG doesn't like to take back money, so would it be better to make sure all the awarded funds are already into your bank account before you approach them about using your excess funds to expand on your project?

    Or does it make any difference?

  14. #14
    Forum Member islandfire03's Avatar
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    Jim : There shouldn't be any excess funds transferred into your account prior to your signing a purchase order. The procedure they prefer is to go out to bid and when you know that delivery is scheduled and the invoice will become payable within the next thirty days, then you apply for the funds to be electronically transferred to your account.

    Whatever excess is left from your funding level can then be spent up to 5k
    [4,750 fed share, 250 your match] to expand the project. We always contact the grants management specialist handling our account in writing[e-mail] to verify that it will be approved. Normally they tell us it's not required to file an amendment.

    Funds over the 5 k limit can be applied to expend for a Fire prevention project, but require an amendment and written approval prior to spending & requesting payment from them.
    Hope this clears up the questions, it's all in the program guidance. I just don't have Bugles photographic memory.
    P.S. They don't want us having the money in our accounts earning interest.
    Last edited by islandfire03; 04-08-2010 at 07:26 PM. Reason: added additional sentence

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    Quote Originally Posted by islandfire03 View Post
    Jim : There shouldn't be any excess funds transferred into your account prior to your signing a purchase order. The procedure they prefer is to go out to bid and when you know that delivery is scheduled and the invoice will become payable within the next thirty days, then you apply for the funds to be electronically transferred to your account.

    Whatever excess is left from your funding level can then be spent up to 5k
    [4,750 fed share, 250 your match] to expand the project. We always contact the grants management specialist handling our account in writing[e-mail] to verify that it will be approved. Normally they tell us it's not required to file an amendment.

    Funds over the 5 k limit can be applied to expend for a Fire prevention project, but require an amendment and written approval prior to spending & requesting payment from them.
    Hope this clears up the questions, it's all in the program guidance. I just don't have Bugles photographic memory.
    P.S. They don't want us having the money in our accounts earning interest.
    Yeah, I know this is how they want it and I always get approval before spending any excess and yes they always say its not required to file an amendment, but was just curious if any one had run into what I had mentioned above.
    Excess funds in hand so to speak.

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    It's happened plenty of times, mainly with first-time awardees. Had an 8 TIC award (county dept) and the Chief asked for all $72k fed (90% match, $10k/TIC) but the TICs came in at $6k each. I didn't see any of this until they had the purchase in hand and asked me "now what do I do with this money?" Since their explanation on funds request was "bought 8 TICs" and didn't state price, DHS just approved it. Luckily to make it easy, it was a non-interest bearing account so we didn't have that fun with it, and to avoid applying for a 2009 FP&S grant we ran the amendment for using the rest for Fire Prevention.

    Normal MO I recommend to avoid accounting issues is to only request the federal portion of the invoice(s) due at one time. That way the rest sits there and you know exactly how much you have left to play with on excess or FP. As long as FP amendments are in the proper format they can't be denied. Coupled with the larger applicants snagging so much FP&S award money, that's the reason they tell people to spend all their money. Get the FP&S stuff that you can't get in an FP&S application. They'll work with you on your request for FP so don't just toss it out. Everyone needs FP money.

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    MembersZone Subscriber dfd701's Avatar
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    The threads were beginning to get a little boring so just thought I would stir things up a bit. I wish the mayor would pay that much attention to my writing. Thanks for the spelling & grammar correction SRLFD but have you tried typing in the dark? I am not very good with the light on. Plus we have our own language down here in the south you should know that because you in NY have one also. I am not cutting you down or anything just pointing out that we are all deferent. Hope I donít owe you anything for that lesson. Thanks guys for the info. You all have been a big help to me over the past few months. After checking on some things today I feel better about everything. It is going to work out just fine as far as the timing goes. No money will be in the bank more than 30 days. I remember that part the last time I got a grant which seems like forever. I know you suppose to order the equipment and then ask for the money but I want to see the money in the bank before I tell a vendor to send me $64,000 worth of radios. Donít know about you but I am not very trusting of our Federal Government at this point in time. I am glad for the grant though. Sorry about the confusion on my past posts. Some read between the lines and overlooked my spelling and did give me some good info and I am grateful. Thanks jam, islandfire, Kurt, SLY and bugle. I will post how things work out on this so maybe it will help someone else later on down the road.

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    Scenario: You have 7k excess. Can you use the first 5k to expand your grant, and the 2k on FP, or must all 7k be FP?

  19. #19
    Forum Member islandfire03's Avatar
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    Your welcome DFD. We all learn from each other here.

    Drakes: 5k to expand your grant & balance FP

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    Remember using excess funds for FP requires prior approval through an amendment.

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