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    Default NFPA and Vol. Fire Department

    You guys may not be able to help me out here but its worth a try.... I am a Vol. fire fighter from Nova Scotia Canada... and i was told by a DC of my department that as we are a Vol. department and do not have to meet the standards set out by NFPA. I have searched around on Google and other places and i canít find anything either confirming or denying this statement... I have been in the department for aprx 4 years and am trying to bring stuff up to the standard... IE PPE, BA's, anything that is a safety concern.... any help would be greatly appreciated.

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    Techincally, your DC is correct. You don't have to follow NFPA standards unless your area has adopted them as laws.

    However, should there ever be an issue, the NFPA standards are what any lawyer/court would measure you against.

    And being volunteer does not exempt you from most of the standards. 1710 is one that applies to paid, but there is 1720 which is the vol version.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    As Bones said, NFPA standards have become the "industry standard" and while may not be law in your area, they will be, in court, the bar that your department and operations are measured against.

    In many cases, some of the standards are not realistically acheivable by a VFD. However, you should make every effort to adhere to them.
    Last edited by LaFireEducator; 04-09-2010 at 11:55 AM.

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    Your DC is correct. The NFPA is an independent standards setting/industry association whose standards do not have the force of law unless adopted by a government.

    That doesn't mean you cannot use the standards as a guideline, of course.

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    Do they follow NFPA in Europe???? I'm pretty much sure each country has their own set of regulations. I mean I can't believe the National Electrical Code (NFPA 70 I believe) in the U.S. is adopted around the world.

    However, from their web site

    The mission of the international nonprofit NFPA, established in 1896, is to reduce the worldwide burden of fire and other hazards on the quality of life by providing and advocating consensus codes and standards, research, training, and education.

    The world's leading advocate of fire prevention and an authoritative source on public safety, NFPA develops, publishes, and disseminates more than 300 consensus codes and standards intended to minimize the possibility and effects of fire and other risks.
    But is it the National Fire Protection Association; sounds like a question for a lawyer in Canada.

    A little google work and voila...

    Fire Safety Regulations for Nova Scotia

    1 These regulations may be cited as the Fire Safety Regulations.

    Interpretation

    2 (1) In these regulations,



    (a) “Act” means the Fire Safety Act;



    (b) “Building Code” means the National Building Code of Canada, as adopted and modified under the Building Code Act and the Nova Scotia Building Code Regulations;



    (c) “Committee” means the Fire Services Advisory Committee created by the Minister under subsection 12(4) of the Act and referred to in Section 5;

    Clause 2(1)(c) amended: O.I.C. 2006-439, N.S. Reg. 194/2006.



    (d) “Fire Code” means the fire code adopted pursuant to the Act, as set forth in Section 27;

    Clause 2(1)(e) repealed: O.I.C. 2006-439, N.S. Reg. 194/2006.



    (e) “National Fire Code” means the National Fire Code of Canada 2005 issued by the National Research Council of Canada, as amended..

    Clause 2(1)(f) replaced and relettered (e): O.I.C. 2006-439, N.S. Reg. 194/2006.



    (2) Unless otherwise defined in the Act or these regulations, expressions that are defined in the National Fire Code have the same meaning when used in these regulations.
    Another link for your information National Code Documents - National Fire Code of Canada

    So the correct answer is no you don't have to follow NFPA in Canada.
    Last edited by ScareCrow57; 04-09-2010 at 03:25 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bones42 View Post
    Techincally, your DC is correct. You don't have to follow NFPA standards unless your area has adopted them as laws.

    However, should there ever be an issue, the NFPA standards are what any lawyer/court would measure you against.

    And being volunteer does not exempt you from most of the standards. 1710 is one that applies to paid, but there is 1720 which is the vol version.
    ROFLMAO!!! Unlike you and your desire to point out my every mistake I'm not going to tell you that you were WRONG!!!! Oh WAIT!!!! I just did. Way too funny!!!! You made my day. Thanks and have a good day

    Best part, is those who followed your lead..........

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post

    So the correct answer is no you don't have to follow NFPA in Canada.

    Not so fast there - I haven't read all the Canadian Codes - but DID find this information - this applies to the building codes, but there may be references within Firefighter Standards (if they exist in Canada) to follow certain standards......

    3.3 Standards Development Organizations
    Standards development organizations are major contributors to construction regulation in Canada.
    Hundreds of standards are used by the construction industry. The NBC references over 200
    documents directly (and many more indirectly) that are largely prepared by Canadian standards
    development organizations accredited by the Standards Council of Canada, such as
    • the Canadian General Standards Board (CGSB),
    • the Canadian Standards Association (CSA),
    • Underwriters Laboratories of Canada (ULC), and
    • the Bureau de normalisation du Quťbec (BNQ).
    Standards from American organizations, such as the American Society for Testing and Materials and the National Fire Protection Association, are also referenced.
    You would have to look at the Referenced Standards in the Canadian Codes to see which Standards as far as NFPA - possibly look at the equivilant of OSHA standards too.....

    Also - off a Canadian website -

    http://www.firefightingincanada.com/...view/2799/213/ - with some excerpts....
    Up to standard

    Keeping on top of NFPA guidelines for bunker gear, apparatus, PASS alarms and SCBA
    Written by James Careless
    With 2009 on the horizon, departments must ensure that they are current with National Fire Protection Association (NFPA) standards. There are four areas to be aware of: bunker gear; apparatus; PASS; and SCBA. Here’s an outline of each, with explanations from NFPA Canadian regional director Sean Tracey and FFIC Truck Checks columnist Don Henry, who is also the chair of the IAFC’s apparatus maintenance section and a principal member of the NFPA 1071 emergency vehicle technician professional qualifications standard committee.

    .....“For many years, rural Canadian departments did not follow NFPA 1901 for cost reasons,” says Don Henry. “Thankfully, this has changed, a fact helped by the Canadian ULC S515 standard becoming much tougher in recent years.”

    ■ The bottom line
    When your jurisdiction is buying new equipment, study the NFPA standards
    carefully. Moreover, demand that the vendors who approach you provide detailed proof that they are NFPA compliant. For more information on NFPA standards, visit www.nfpa.org .
    In short - YES YOU DO!
    Last edited by pasobuff; 04-09-2010 at 03:51 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pasobuff View Post
    Not so fast there - I haven't read all the Canadian Codes - but DID find this information - this applies to the building codes, but there may be references within Firefighter Standards (if they exist in Canada) to follow certain standards......



    You would have to look at the Referenced Standards in the Canadian Codes to see which Standards as far as NFPA - possibly look at the equivilant of OSHA standards too.....

    Also - off a Canadian website -

    http://www.firefightingincanada.com/...view/2799/213/ - with some excerpts....


    In short - YES YOU DO!

    Actually, they need to follow the Canadian codes which may reference other codes or research. It is like in NYS government entities don't need to follow OSHA regulations.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    Do they follow NFPA in Europe???? I'm pretty much sure each country has their own set of regulations. I mean I can't believe the National Electrical Code (NFPA 70 I believe) in the U.S. is adopted around the world.

    However, from their web site



    But is it the National Fire Protection Association; sounds like a question for a lawyer in Canada.

    A little google work and voila...

    Fire Safety Regulations for Nova Scotia



    Another link for your information National Code Documents - National Fire Code of Canada

    So the correct answer is no you don't have to follow NFPA in Canada.



    Here you go again talking about something you know nothing about. The OP ask for Canada not Europe.

    You first should learn what the codes, standards are in the United States and stick to that!


    Stay Safe and Well Out There....

    Always remembering 9-11-2001 and 343+ Brothers

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    umm....you are kind of correct - NYS uses PESH, which is based on OSHA regulations - and are as strict if not stricter.....http://www.osha.gov/dcsp/osp/stateprogs/new_york.html

    As for the original question - Canada DOES use/reference NFPA - you'd have to check to see if taht particular standard is referenced....

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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptOldTimer View Post
    Here you go again talking about something you know nothing about. The OP ask for Canada not Europe.

    You first should learn what the codes, standards are in the United States and stick to that!


    I see that you missed the subtle point being made. That is that NFPA is not universally accepted and followed throughout the world. In fact, many places in the world object to the arrogance put forth by the American people that our regulations and way of life are the only way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pasobuff View Post
    umm....you are kind of correct - NYS uses PESH, which is based on OSHA regulations - and are as strict if not stricter.....http://www.osha.gov/dcsp/osp/stateprogs/new_york.html

    As for the original question - Canada DOES use/reference NFPA - you'd have to check to see if taht particular standard is referenced....
    That is correct, PESH is essentially OSHA, but administered by the State. Difference comes when dishing out fines and penalties.

    And I suspect Canada uses NFPA much in the same way that OSHA uses NFPA. It should be noted though that the Canadian Laws and regulations are the starting point. Those are what really must be followed (assuming the Canadian legal system works like ours or better)

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    I see that you missed the subtle point being made. That is that NFPA is not universally accepted and followed throughout the world. In fact, many places in the world object to the arrogance put forth by the American people that our regulations and way of life are the only way.


    YOU go back to the first post straw and READ what he said about the NFPA, OK??

    Here I will bring it to you.


    "NSFF NFPA and Vol. Fire Department

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    You guys may not be able to help me out here but its worth a try.... I am a Vol. fire fighter from Nova Scotia Canada... and i was told by a DC of my department that as we are a Vol. department and do not have to meet the standards set out by NFPA. I have searched around on Google and other places and i can’t find anything either confirming or denying this statement... I have been in the department for aprx 4 years and am trying to bring stuff up to the standard... IE PPE, BA's, anything that is a safety concern.... any help would be greatly appreciated. "




    Capisce???
    Last edited by CaptOldTimer; 04-09-2010 at 04:48 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    ROFLMAO!!! Unlike you and your desire to point out my every mistake I'm not going to tell you that you were WRONG!!!! Oh WAIT!!!! I just did. Way too funny!!!! You made my day. Thanks and have a good day

    Best part, is those who followed your lead..........
    My desire to point out your every mistake? Ya, Ok, that's what I desire.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    Actually, they need to follow the Canadian codes which may reference other codes or research. It is like in NYS government entities don't need to follow OSHA regulations.
    Go on, we love watching you make a complete fool out of yourself when you talk about topics you have NO knowledge about.
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

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    It so happens that you're not the only Nova Scotia Volunteer Firefighter on the forum.

    The short answer is your DC is correct.

    As far as I know, adopting NFPA standards is left to the discretion of each department. The province plays no role in setting operational standards, leaving it strictly in the hands of the Municipalities which fund the departments.

    The province does, via the Office of the Fire Marshal, run the Pro Board which certifies training in NS. After completing my Level 1 exam at Waverley, my certificate was issued by the Pro Board, and signed by the Fire Marshal.

    Also - as far as I have seen, when Canadian fire services refer to any standards, it's NFPA.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChiefKN View Post
    Go on, we love watching you make a complete fool out of yourself when you talk about topics you have NO knowledge about.
    It is quite entertaining....
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    Post And............

    There ARE places where the use of some parts of NFPA Standards are a Violation of the Law. Here in Maryland, we sought, and got, legislation that prohibits the use of the NFPA Standard on Apparatus Lighting, specifically that part which refers to the use of a switch that cuts off White Lights when the Parking Brake is activated. It was (is) our position that only the Driver and/or the Officer should be able to control the Lighting on a piece of Apparatus.

    Although it didn't happen, there was a time when the State of Delaware was considering a Law that whould have prohibited the use of any and all NFPA Standards in that State.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    In fact, many places in the world object to the arrogance put forth by the American people that our regulations and way of life are the only way.
    Kind of like your arrogance insisting that your answers are the only correct answers?
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    Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 .
    [QUOTEI]n fact, many places in the world object to the arrogance put forth by the American people that our regulations and way of life are the only way.[/QUOTE]

    Originally Posted by FWDbuff
    Kind of like your arrogance insisting that your answers are the only correct answers?
    ZING!!!!!!!!
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChiefKN View Post
    Go on, we love watching you make a complete fool out of yourself when you talk about topics you have NO knowledge about.
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainGonzo View Post
    It is quite entertaining....
    Am working on the webteam to get popcorn and beer dispensers installed for the show when the Strawbrain shows his infinite ignorance..
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    Internet service for a month: $45-$95

    Membership to the FH forums: $0

    Setting back and watching the certain Yahoo's on here make complete and utter fools of themselves: PRICELESS!!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by whfd930 View Post
    Am working on the webteam to get popcorn and beer dispensers installed for the show when the Strawbrain shows his infinite ignorance..
    I doubt if they'll be able to keep up with the beer flow. If they can, it should help support the economy!

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    Quote Originally Posted by FWDbuff View Post
    Kind of like your arrogance insisting that your answers are the only correct answers?
    I believe in my opinions. I back them up with sound reasoning, logic, facts and lifes experiences. When I am wrong I admit it.

    Funny how the last 5 posers had nothing positive to say concerning the thread, but instead attempt to derail an otherwise good discussion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareCrow57 View Post
    I believe in my opinions. I back them up with sound reasoning, logic, facts and lifes experiences. When I am wrong I admit it.

    Funny how the last 5 posers had nothing positive to say concerning the thread, but instead attempt to derail an otherwise good discussion.

    You just on and on and still haven't said anything worth while!
    Stay Safe and Well Out There....

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