1. #1
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    Default How to appeal a reduction

    I am working on typing up an appeal for a reduction of additional funding on a pumper. I have searched the forums, but have not found a direct "how to" anywhere. I am looking for some assistance from others whom have been here. My Grant Management Specialist replied to my inquiry about how to appeal by stating:

    "Thank you for the email response. Please state in appeal in this email and it will be forwarded to the appropriate person."

    I have nothing to work with at this time. I am looking for a format, or example from others. I know i will talk about how re requested for a fully equipped pumper, and we would not be fulfilling the scope of the grant with just 5k of equipment on it. I would break down the narrative points to show which different areas we would be deficient in should we accept the reduction.

    Comments?

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    deleted because its in wrong thread.
    Last edited by auxman; 04-09-2010 at 12:54 PM. Reason: thought I was posting in another thread.

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    I usually start by calling the person on the 10Q email. From there, I get forwarded to someone with the authority to discuss the reduction. They will either talk with you about it and find out of it was in error, or request you submit an appeal.

    If you have submit an appeal, make sure you have your facts in line to back up why you need what you're asking for. If they've deleted needed equipment, be ready to cite NFPA 1901. If it's funding for travel or something like that, cite the PG and have quotes available to prove your cost estimate.

    That's how I've handled mine, at least. I've had two reductions reversed. The first was a RIT packs. Although I did ask for too many (two per engine), they did reinstate one and gave me one per engine after I justified that we needed both. The second was the CAFS portion of our skid for this year's grant. The CAFS was removed in error and all it took was the phone call.

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    Without seeing what you asked for in your application, it's kinda hard to know what they reduced.
    If you requested a fully equipped engine per NFPA 1901, and they reduced to 5k you have to show them that you don't currently have the equipment to transfer from your old engine to make the new one compliant. They probably figured that you have hard equipment and hose to transfer over.
    Start with a complete printed list of equipment per 1901 and determine what if any you have that is still serviceable and what you don't have or needs to be replaced, ie attack & supply hose that is past it's life expectancy and has been failing annual hose testing,ladders that don't meet current specifications & testing standards. Be prepared to justify what you asked for in writing and have the documentation to back it up.
    If you don't have access to NFPA , your apparatus vendor should be able to supply you with a printed list.
    After you have that, then compare pricing awarded on Onebugles spreadsheet to get the cost of that equipment.
    Write out your appeal and make sure that it is a reasonable justification of your needs and then submit it in writing to your GMS for forwarding up the chain to the tech reviewer that can reinstate or deny the funding reduction.
    I'm 2 for 3 in appeals following this format
    Good luck

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    We received a reduction for our grant, and called the 10Q individual. Very easy to work with. Sent him an e-mail stating our case for re-consideration based on fact that reduction would not allow us to fulfill our project description, and backed it up with facts. It was a simple two paragraph e-mail, and a day later, reductions changed to original.

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    Alright. Word on the streets is they will only fund the minimums listed in 1901. So no chainsaw, tic, medical (except 1st aid kit) to be funded. only 800', of supply hose, 200 ft 1.5/1.75" hose, etc.

    Anyone else experiencing this problem?

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    The interpretation I got from reading the PG is that they will provide the basic requirements to meet the standards or regulation. Doesn't mean they will fund everything you want, just whats needed to be compliant.
    I think it was Kurt that described it as a hand up--- Not a hand-out.

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    I was just confused because this was posted in another thread:

    Quote Originally Posted by onebugle View Post
    In the past the AFG has allowed funding to outfit apparatus to NFPA 1901. $30K has been used to outfit a pumper (which a type II is I believe).

    An appeal is in order; it may be as simple as Tech Review not understanding what a Type II engine is and providing clarification could be in order.

    Also for an appeal have a list ready of the required equipment needed to outfit the apparatus per NFPA 1901 along with a cost to prove your case.
    So far my calculations put the cost to the minimum at ~15k (ladders, drafting hose supplied by builder as noted in 1901)

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    Quote Originally Posted by drakescrossing View Post
    Alright. Word on the streets is they will only fund the minimums listed in 1901. So no chainsaw, tic, medical (except 1st aid kit) to be funded. only 800', of supply hose, 200 ft 1.5/1.75" hose, etc.

    Anyone else experiencing this problem?

    1901 requires an AED also...A little more medical.

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    Quote Originally Posted by drakescrossing View Post
    I was just confused because this was posted in another thread:



    So far my calculations put the cost to the minimum at ~15k (ladders, drafting hose supplied by builder as noted in 1901)
    The equipment supplied by the contractor would not be included in the figure as those items would be part of the overall cost of the apparatus when bid. The $30K figure is based on the meeting the standard for Minor Equipment (shall be available before putting vehicle into service) & Miscellneous Equipment (shall be carried on the apparatus).

    Part of the Misc. Equip. is a SCBA, a big ticket item. The standard requires one for each seated position or a min. of 4 which equates to about $20K. Add in the Minor Equipment your around $27K. Add in the rest of the Misc. Equip. and you will easily exceed $30K.

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    But there again : are they assuming you already have some things such as SCBA, hose ,nozzles, appliances , ladders to put on the truck.
    Did your narrative make it clear to them that all that loose equipment was needed?

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    I made the huge mistake (i later realized) of listing every item, including quantity. I realized later that we would be held to purchasing every item to that quantity.

    I realize where the extra money comes in. If you ask for 5" it could add another 5-10K, so that is where the difference is.

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    You're only held to that list if they give you the funding you asked for to purchase everything. If they reduced it then they have to tell you what you're expected to buy out of that list since the money they gave won't cover everything. We've had to do that before when they dropped pricing, give them the list and let them say what was nixed. Got some money back in a few cases, got the list of expected items in the rest so no one was held to something that wasn't achievable.

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    We did a 10% additional overmatch (15% total). can we use this 10% to buy back some of the essential missing equipment not covered by 1901?

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    Quote Originally Posted by drakescrossing View Post
    We did a 10% additional overmatch (15% total). can we use this 10% to buy back some of the essential missing equipment not covered by 1901?
    You will have to complete the scope of the project as written. It will depend on how you addressed the overmatch in the application/narrative.

    Is the overmatch reflected in the cost of the vehicle in the application?

    Is the overmatch addressed in the narrative?

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    We acknowledged we were writing for 90% of the estimated cost, but did not say where the costs would go exactly.

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    Doesn't matter, once they alter the project then you still owe 10%. Since it's less anything you had over the new matching amount is no longer obligated to the project directly so you can do whatever you want with it. So if you had $20k going to it and now it's only $15k with reductions that other $5k can go somewhere else. They only stick to the matching percentages, not the actual dollar amount.

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    BC,
    What i meant to ask is are we required to spend the 10% evenly (by percentage) on the rig and the equipment. I know me must match 5% in both categories per the minimum, but our remaining 10%, can it be spent on either category unequally (by %/)

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    Your matching is on the whole project, so 10% on each side of vehicle and equipment if that's what was offered up. What I meant was if you were offering 10% on $300k project and they drop you to $275k then you only have to match $27,500 instead of $30,000.

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