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    Default hose bed nets

    anybody using the new crosslay nets that are comming on the new engines?

    how do you like them, and how do they work for you guys?

    im curious to see how you pack your hose around the net, it only seems to get in the way!!

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    Our new engines came with them and our old ones are being retrofitted.

    Personally, I don't like them, but they do not get in our way. I guess anything in the name of safety, right (tounge-in-cheek)? The story we were given was that it became a standard after a crosslay came out and struck a kid. I don't know if that is accurate.

    I really don't see the need for it, we run Pierce apparatus, all the crosslays are in "boxes" in front of the pump panel. I would not see it as any real likelyhood that our crosslay could come out by accidnet. On older style apparatus, with the stacks of crosslays up on top the pump panel, I could see how it might happen.

    But as long as you clear the net out of the way prior to deploying the line I haven't seen a real problem. Our 2&1/2 line on the bottom is hooked to a Blitzfire that is mounted on the side step. we have to move that hose to the side to clip up the net, but still not an issue.

    I've had more issues with laying 5" off the rear (done it twice in 14 years), and now we have a hosebed cover that attaches on the back to mitigate that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cwat2026 View Post
    anybody using the new crosslay nets that are comming on the new engines?

    how do you like them, and how do they work for you guys?

    im curious to see how you pack your hose around the net, it only seems to get in the way!!
    Ummmm, you are aware that they detach, and you can move them out of the way when you need to pull a line or re-pack, right?????
    "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

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    Default Tarps

    We actually have tarps over the ends of our crosslays which are hooked to a hard cover that folds up. Other than the fact that they get in the way a little bit when repacking I don't mind them for functionality.

    They do come off the cover but it's a pain and by the time you get them off and fight to get them back on you could have had the hose reloaded.

    Looks on the other hand. I think they look like crap and make the truck look cheap and like your trying to hide a poor hose load.

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    im not a big fan on them either, but its all in the name of safety.

    i guess i should rephrase my question a bit, what hose loads are you using?
    we use the minuteman- but the nozzle sticking out makes the nets very hard to put back up... we are experiementing with standing the nozzle up or laying it on top :O not sure what we're going to go with yet

    we have the cover on the back as well that clamps down, i believe 5 buckles in order to lay hose? dont hold that to me

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    Whats the big deal guys? I mean seriously, whats the big deal with them?...No matter if they are on the back or on the crosslays...Are you guys that excited when you get to a job you dont have the 5 extra seconds it takes to unsnap them? And yes, crosslay trays can slide out very easily. It happens alot more than people care to admit.

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    If your nozzels are the problem with your nets....I guess first question would be are your crosslays beds wide enough for a side by side hose load or just a single wide? If they are a side by side you could use a modified minute man where the first half is loaded in a flat lay and then the other half is loaded in minute man and leave enough hose to flip the nozzel up over the load.

    Thats the way we lay ours and it works great. It would also depend on how long your cross lays are I guess. Ours are 200' 1¾" we also run a 200' 2½" crosslay loaded the same way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stock07 View Post
    Whats the big deal guys? I mean seriously, whats the big deal with them?...No matter if they are on the back or on the crosslays...Are you guys that excited when you get to a job you dont have the 5 extra seconds it takes to unsnap them? And yes, crosslay trays can slide out very easily. It happens alot more than people care to admit.
    It is the "C" word- "Change". Often a swear word in the fire service. No, I don't like them, for no other reason than I don't think they are necessary. Do they cause a problem, no. Are they probably safer, yes. Still don't like them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FiremanLyman View Post
    Our new engines came with them and our old ones are being retrofitted.

    Personally, I don't like them, but they do not get in our way. I guess anything in the name of safety, right (tounge-in-cheek)? The story we were given was that it became a standard after a crosslay came out and struck a kid. I don't know if that is accurate.
    DAN NEPHIN
    Associated Press Writer

    PITTSBURGH (AP) -- Two families sued a fire department and a fire truck manufacturer over an accident in which a fire hose uncoiled from a moving truck, killing one girl and injuring another.
    Erin Schmidt, 10, of Coraopolis, died a day after the Aug. 19 accident and Joey Lynn Jeffress, 10, was injured. Schmidt was struck in the head by a six-pound nozzle on a fire hose that uncoiled as the truck rushed past them to a fire in Coraopolis, about 10 miles northwest of Pittsburgh.
    ''Every day I miss her and I just don't understand why she had to leave and why this had to happen,'' Erin's mother, Joyce Schmidt, said at a news conference announcing the lawsuit Wednesday.
    Schmidt and Michele Jeffress, Joey Lynn's mother, said they were suing primarily to prevent a similar thing from happening to someone else.
    ''The money doesn't mean anything. I wish I had my daughter back,'' Schmidt said.
    ''It's awful,'' Jeffress said. ''Joey lives without her best friend.''
    Joey has had one surgery where a metal plate was put in her head, but needs more surgery, Michele Jeffress said, explaining her daughter's face ''was basically torn away.''
    The lawsuits name the Coraopolis Volunteer Fire Dept. and Boardman Inc., the Oklahoma City company that made the truck. Messages left for Coraopolis' solicitor and the fire chief were not immediately returned. Calls to Boardman were directed to its president, Roger Grommet, who was out Wednesday and did not immediately return a message.
    Coraopolis solicitor Richard Start had previously said the fire department found that its members didn't contribute to the accident.
    The fire department kept the hose and nozzle folded in a box on the truck with an open side facing away from the truck's side, according to the lawsuits. The hose was either not packed correctly or was jarred loose as the truck traveled to the fire, the attorneys said.
    The flailing hose and nozzle became a ''lethal weapon,'' said John P. Gismondi, the attorney for Michele Jeffress.
    Boardman was negligent in not providing a means of securing the hose or warning firefighters that the hose could come loose, according to the lawsuits.
    Since the accident, the fire department has been using a net to secure the hose, the attorneys said.
    ''This very simple device would have prevented this incident from happening,'' said Alan H. Perer, attorney for Schmidt.
    The attorneys said they've learned of a half-dozen other incidents in which hoses have come loose, but were unaware of any other deaths or injuries. Hoses probably come off more often, but no one keeps statistics, Gismondi said.
    The attorneys also criticized a 1980 law capping damage awards against governments at $500,000, meaning the five plaintiffs would have to split that amount if they won.
    Gismondi said the amount no longer has the same value today as in 1980 and illustrates a problem with damage caps.
    Erin's sister Lindsay Schmidt and Joey's sister, Lauren, both saw the accident and also are plaintiffs.

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    Well, there you go. Sad.

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    Geezus, you guys are seriously bitching about a hose bed cover that takes a matter of seconds to move and when in place can positively prevent a serious injury or death.

    Get over it. If that was my kid that got killed, even being a member of the fire service I would sue the absolute crap out of that fire department for wrongful death. Especially if it was a newer rig where the netting had been removed.

    No person should be killed because of something so stupid as hose flying off from a piece of fire apparatus.

    By the way, I would NOT sue the manufacturer if netting was installed by them and removed by the FD, or it was before the netting standard was in place. the manufacturer can't be held responsible for the negligence of the FD.
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    It happens a lot more then people realize.

    Jan 29, 2010 7:26 am US/Eastern

    Elderly Woman Killed By Cambridge Fire HoseCAMBRIDGE (WBZ) ― An elderly woman who was hit by a fire hose has died.

    82-year-old Gertrude King of Somerville was struck behind the knees by the hose late Tuesday morning. She was standing on a median strip in Central Square to allow the Cambridge fire engine to pass as it repsonded to a call. Police say the 200-foot-long hose had somehow become dislodged and was dragging behind the truck. King was hit as the engine turned a corner.

    "We believe it knocked her down as the truck made the left turn onto Western Avenue," said Cambridge police Deputy Supt. Jack Albert.

    "We believe the hose trailed behind and she was standing right at one of the light stanchions and we believe that it may have just caused her to be taken right off the island."

    She was rushed to Massachusetts General Hospital, where she died Thursday morning.
    Cambridge police and the Middlesex district attorney's office are asking witnesses to come forward. The Cambridge Fire Department is reviewing inspection logs as part of the investigation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    By the way, I would NOT sue the manufacturer if netting was installed by them and removed by the FD, or it was before the netting standard was in place. the manufacturer can't be held responsible for the negligence of the FD.
    Fair or not, the manufacturers WILL get sued. That is just how it works. Lawyers will sue EVERYONE invloved in any part of the incident to try and get as much money as possible.

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    Roughly a year ago, we had an Engine responding flow of traffic to a cover assignment in another town. We didn't have hose bed covers at the time, and the wind rushing over the truck on the interstate caught the 4 inch in the bed of the truck. It laid all 2100' of line down the Interstate, luckily nobody hit the loose line.

    Since that incident, ALL our apparatus have hose bed covers. There are no exceptions. Hose bed covers can without a doubt reduce the risk of incidents while apparatus respond, and can save lives. The minor inconvenience they cause is worth it if we can help prevent an accident that could possible cause injury or death.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WD6956 View Post
    Fair or not, the manufacturers WILL get sued. That is just how it works. Lawyers will sue EVERYONE invloved in any part of the incident to try and get as much money as possible.
    Not so. The person hiring the lawyer controls who is involved. If the lawyer doesn't want to do what the person paying them says you FIRE THEM. That is the problem with the law today, people forget they hired the lawyer and they can tell them what they want done. The lawyer can suggest courses of action but they can't make the person hiring them to do anything.

    If that was my kid I would make it clear that if the truck met NFPA standards at the time of delivery the manufacturer is not to be sued UNLESS they were somehow negligent in the manufacture.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    Especially if it was a newer rig where the netting had been removed.
    Who said anything about removing them, switch to decaf.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FiremanLyman View Post
    Who said anything about removing them, switch to decaf.
    Well Sunshine...I know of departments in my area that did that very thing upon arrival. lLaughing about the sissy nets and how they had never lost a hose load and never will.

    Maybe you need to switch to something with caffeine...
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    Not so. The person hiring the lawyer controls who is involved. If the lawyer doesn't want to do what the person paying them says you FIRE THEM.
    Do you honestly think the family is going to argue with a lawyer when it comes to a lawsuit like this? That is just not how it works. 99.9% of people who sue are suing because they are after money. They know the lawyer is going to take a big chunk of that money so the goal is to get as much as possible.

    Anybody and anything involved is fair game in these lawsuits. I understand that the person who hires a lawyer has say in who is sued, but the vast majority are only interested in the money. They have no regard for who is getting sued along the way. Just wait and see what happens with this lawsuit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post

    Maybe you need to switch to something with caffeine...
    +2 points. Great dig.

    Hey, just because I don't like them doesn't mean I don't use them. I feel bad for departments that are not packing their hose loads right and killing people. Sort of like new apparatus with seat belt alarms... wouldn't need big brother forcing safety devices if people did the right thing in the first place.

    And till you brought it up, nobody here advocated removing the nets.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WD6956 View Post
    Do you honestly think the family is going to argue with a lawyer when it comes to a lawsuit like this? That is just not how it works. 99.9% of people who sue are suing because they are after money. They know the lawyer is going to take a big chunk of that money so the goal is to get as much as possible.

    Anybody and anything involved is fair game in these lawsuits. I understand that the person who hires a lawyer has say in who is sued, but the vast majority are only interested in the money. They have no regard for who is getting sued along the way. Just wait and see what happens with this lawsuit.
    Did you read what I said or just go off half ****ed? Let me copy and paste it here for you and maybe bold type a few select words so you can see EXACTLY what I said.

    By the way, I would NOT sue the manufacturer if netting was installed by them and removed by the FD, or it was before the netting standard was in place. the manufacturer can't be held responsible for the negligence of the FD.
    Pssssst...The key word above is I.

    I have no control over what anyone else does. I only control what I do in this circumstance. I would not sue the apparatus manufacturer unless through their negligence, or their failure to comply with the applicable standards at the time of manufacture, they were directly responsible for the accident.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    Did you read what I said or just go off half ****ed? .
    I read what you said, perhaps if you were more clear we would not be having this discussion?

    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    Let me copy and paste it here for you and maybe bold type a few select words so you can see EXACTLY what I said.



    Pssssst...The key word above is I.

    I have no control over what anyone else does. I only control what I do in this circumstance. I would not sue the apparatus manufacturer unless through their negligence, or their failure to comply with the applicable standards at the time of manufacture, they were directly responsible for the accident.
    Great, it's nice that YOU would not sue the manufacturer. I would'nt either. But we are not the majority. Sadly, the vast majority of our population is lawsuit happy and at the very first accident they have, will have DOZENS of lawyers calling them. It happens ALL THE TIME.

    I understand you just fine. All i am saying is it's just how things work. EVERYONE gets sued when stuff like this happens. It's part of life.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WD6956 View Post
    I read what you said, perhaps if you were more clear we would not be having this discussion?



    Great, it's nice that YOU would not sue the manufacturer. I would'nt either. But we are not the majority. Sadly, the vast majority of our population is lawsuit happy and at the very first accident they have, will have DOZENS of lawyers calling them. It happens ALL THE TIME.

    I understand you just fine. All i am saying is it's just how things work. EVERYONE gets sued when stuff like this happens. It's part of life.
    And maybe if the country stopped saying things like "it's just how things work" and said enough of the stupid lawsuits just because someone has deep pockets it would stop.
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    Pssst... You forgot to be gracious when I complemented you on a good dig. -1 point.

    Psssst.... You highlighted and made bold a different section than I quoted and tried to correct me, very SC like. -1 point.

    Have a super day man.

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    Sorry, bad post...opps
    Last edited by fireeaterbob; 05-03-2010 at 09:49 PM.
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    ya know reading all this c@#@$$%p about lawyers and such takes me back to when i was prob 19-20. i worked for a old man in a auto shop and this one old boy that came in 2-3 times a week said something that at the time i just blew off. the more things change in this world the more of what he said makes complete sence and i quote " insurance companys and lawyers are like penicyllin (sp) and the clap you dont need one without the other" end quote. even with the misspelling i think the point is there just too many sue happy people and it will not get better till they make the lawyers and judges pay the costs when they lose. this is off subject but a good exsample is about year or so back a jury of 12 and judge awarded a real idiot 350,000.00 for the loss of three fingers on one hand and 4 on the other when he tryed to pickup his push mower and use it to trimm the side of his hedge. where did they find the 12 dumb a##s to sit on that jury. i rest my case.
    Randy Meyer Chief S.T.F.P.D.

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