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    Default Why wont the Forest Service hire me?

    I am a NWCG FFT1, and B Faller with a contract crew. I Am Also a Volunteer Firefighter and have My first Responder Cert and and A bunch more training in the structure and TC fields. I was told that USFS had to hire A huge number of "new hires" this year. I have applied for everything form Hand Crews and Engines to Fuels crews Within a hundred miles of my NorCal location. I got Only ONE Interest Call and that is all it ever became. How on earth does a person get hired by the USFS?

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    I know the feeling brotha!! I have all sorts of experience, from a FFI Academy, 4 years Volunteer experience, and a year on an ambulance running some pretty gnarly calls! I applied with the feds this year and I have not heard a THING! I, like you applied for everything (enginge, crew, helitack...). I also have apps in about 10 states with no luck at all. I have heard with the USFS it is more about who you know than what you know, plus they give veterans a job offer before us. I had a captain wanting to give me a job, but for some reason i didnt show up on his GS4 list. There is a million hoops to jump through it seems like. I feel your pain.

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    trust me you dont want to work for the forest service if you live in norcal. Focus your efforts on Cal Fire. Better work schedule, better work locations, better experience, better supervisors, etc etc. plus better pay and benifits. The FS is the most mismanaged organization in the country.

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    i would definately have to agree with what you said!! cal fire is where i am lookin now, for all of the above reasons... do you currently work for cal fire slappin joe?

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    From what I understand, after you make it on the referral lists, you need to go and call the captains and hiring officials for each of the locations you made the list for. They normally have anywhere between 50-200 on their list, so the only way to stand out is to be a veteran or get them to recognize your name. Even though I didn't have any experience or certs, I applied and called relentlessly and was finally hired on by a crew for this summer. Believe me, the best way to do it is to keep calling and keep calling until you get in touch with the hiring official and then pitch yourself to them.

    I haven't worked with them yet, so i can't comment on them being mismanaged, but I visited the station and they all seemed like pretty cool people.

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    ygarrard is right, the best way to get hired at any department is to MAKE them remember your face and name. No I do not work for cal fire or the feds but have experience working around and with both. The most important thing for Cal fire is get your 67, have your emt, first responder, haz mat awareness, confined space awareness, and ff1 academy. There are flag codes on the apps and this will get you max points. Also call stations and politic before the hiring period starts to get your name out there. If you meet a supervisor who really likes you they can pull your app personally to guarentee you an interview. You may see them on your interview panel as well.

    If you dont have your 67, dont bother applying to Butte, NEU, Santa Clara, AEU to name a few. The only northern units I know of offering a 67 hr academy for new hires is LNU and Mendocino.

    Of course this is all moot for this season, but never too early to start.
    Last edited by slapinjoe; 04-13-2010 at 10:47 PM.

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    And what's wrong with the Forest Circus??? During a busy fire year, being with the FS you can go out of state for fires (and I don't mean just those states that unfortunately touch California). You can leave your engine and hike into a fire in the wilderness. Your engine will even leave the pavement... your station may even be on a dirt road *gasp*. CDF also fights fire, but they have a different mission... they want to be a fire dept, whereas the FS happens to fight fires.

    I would love to come back to the Lassen or the Modoc someday.

    Did you call the stations you were interested in? Did you stop by and harass... Uh, I mean introduce and remind the hiring folks who you were? Maybe budgets got slashed and they didn't fill any jobs beyond those returning. It's my understanding that the FS in Cal has a big shindig in Sacramento and arm wrestle each other for the best applicants. Don't totally give up.. it's not over until the snow flies. CALL and see if anyone can tell you why you didn't get hired.. maybe someone will have an opening at the last minute and you wind up getting that spot.

    "CalFire" is because some guys from the CA Dept of Forestry AND Fire Protection were jealous of CalTrans
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    Quote Originally Posted by slapinjoe View Post
    The only northern units I know of offering a 67 hr academy for new hires is LNU and Mendocino.
    What is the LNU? Do you mean LMU - as in Lassen Modoc?
    IACOJ
    Stopping controlled burning DOES NOT stop the burning, only the control!
    http://www.wy.blm.gov/fireuse/fums.htm

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    No I mean LNU, lake - sonoma - napa unit. The FS does have a different mission from Cal Fire. Cal Fire puts fires out while the FS manages them. This is why you have fires like the station fire that, if on SRA or county land, would have been done in 24 hours. Instead, the FS keeps them going to try and manage the forest, and two FF;s end up dying. This is just one example of a lot of deep rooted dislike between the FS and everyone else in the state of Cal.

    The fact that you can go out of state to me is a hinderance, not an advantage. Ive been on fires where your division supe is from Alabama, and you are in the klamath. How can this guy fro Alabama, who is supposed to be in charge, have ANY clue about wildfire behavior in California, let alone this forest. It is dangerous. Look at the past 5 years of accidents. Cal Fire has very few compared to the FS.

    I could go on forever. You will "fight" more fire, make more money, work better hours, have an all risk mission, and get training from the best wildland fire agency in the world by working for cal fire. Who wants to go out of state anyways when cal burns the best out of all of them?

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    Quote Originally Posted by slapinjoe View Post
    No I mean LNU, lake - sonoma - napa unit. The FS does have a different mission from Cal Fire. Cal Fire puts fires out while the FS manages them. This is why you have fires like the station fire that, if on SRA or county land, would have been done in 24 hours. Instead, the FS keeps them going to try and manage the forest, and two FF;s end up dying. This is just one example of a lot of deep rooted dislike between the FS and everyone else in the state of Cal.

    The fact that you can go out of state to me is a hinderance, not an advantage. Ive been on fires where your division supe is from Alabama, and you are in the klamath. How can this guy fro Alabama, who is supposed to be in charge, have ANY clue about wildfire behavior in California, let alone this forest. It is dangerous. Look at the past 5 years of accidents. Cal Fire has very few compared to the FS.

    I could go on forever. You will "fight" more fire, make more money, work better hours, have an all risk mission, and get training from the best wildland fire agency in the world by working for cal fire. Who wants to go out of state anyways when cal burns the best out of all of them?
    All Right I have Sat here and listed to Just about all of the Crap That I am going to, without piping in.

    If you had half of a Brain in your Rookie Head you would understand that, Forests are Managed in 1 of 2 ways. 1 Fuel Reductions/Controlled burning. 2. Uncontrolled Fire. We can Manage Fires that occurred naturally before we where here. OR we can put them all out, and create Such a Fuel Load, that WHEN not if, When the Fires do ignite, There is No stopping them.

    For some one to Want to Compare USFS to a state agency in terms of injury, I Laugh. Get real. So I will assume you wanna base that just off of Cal. Great. Considering CAL-Fire Runs EMS, Rescue, and i am sure some more stuff that some little Wack-off-wanna-be will fill me in on. I can't see how your statement is remotely feasible. Show me proof.

    You can believe what ever you want. More money, more fires, better people, If that is the case why aren't you working for them right now? Personally I pray i never have to work with the Idiots I had from CALFIRE, in 2008.

    And As far as leaving the State, You learn fire behavior by Experiencing it. It is not something that you learn in a 67 hour academy. I think ALL firefighters should be required to leave there home unit especially you CA boys that way-just maybe, you will learn that there are fires out side of your Dam state.
    Last edited by Bushwhacker; 04-16-2010 at 01:16 AM.
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    can we please not have a ****in match in regards to this post and try to help some people out. both agencies like any department have their strengths and weaknesses. i believe this post was about a few of us wondering how we can get a job with the feds? any suggestions in regards to the post TITLE bushwacker? i along with the author could use some advice...thanks

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    Quote Originally Posted by jakelong View Post
    can we please not have a ****in match in regards to this post and try to help some people out. both agencies like any department have their strengths and weaknesses. i believe this post was about a few of us wondering how we can get a job with the feds? any suggestions in regards to the post TITLE bushwacker? i along with the author could use some advice...thanks
    Absolutely, What Do you want to know more about? It sounds like you did all the right moves in the right order. Fact of the matter is that it is tough times and there are a lot of people shooting for the same job. Whats your past Experience level? structural FF1 even with the skills cross walk only drops you out to a FFt2(basic) in our world, EMT, a plus but not inst-hire, gnarly calls-not gonna help you out, 4 years as a what? Your best shot would be Shoot for a engine spot, get some more experience as a Wild land man, and then keep working up from there. Rookies do get hired to Crew and Heli-attack usually, except when they are understaffed. Your not going to make a Jumper with little to no experience your first year out.
    Courage, Being Scared to Death and Saddling Up anyways.

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    i have been a volunteer firefighter for almost four years, and have had some real good wildland experience in that time. i have literally applied everywhere lol. I spoke to a few crews out in colorado but my attempts were apparently too late in then season. I would ultimately love to move out there, therefore i was searching around the area. it just seems that my local forest is really tough to get picked up in (BDF)- san bernardino. thanks for the response!

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    jakelong- It can be difficult sometimes landing a wild land job but not impossible. I highly recommend getting your application into AVUE and USAJOBS in early October, and from there just call and call and call and then keep calling the units your interested in. It can be a real pain in the butt but make sure you call every week or two. It may be too late this season but I would still call around there are always people that drop at the last minute, thats how I got my job my second season. If there is anything else I can help out with feel free to ask or pm me. Good luck!

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    Quote Originally Posted by nomex82 View Post
    jakelong- It can be difficult sometimes landing a wild land job but not impossible. I highly recommend getting your application into AVUE and USAJOBS in early October, ...
    When do they throwout the last season's Open Continuous Roster and open a new one? I've been under the impression that the calender year brings a new application period for the OCR.
    IACOJ
    Stopping controlled burning DOES NOT stop the burning, only the control!
    http://www.wy.blm.gov/fireuse/fums.htm

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    jake long - i'll leave the thread alone with this. But PLEASE do yourself a favor and go find anyone who has worked for both agencies, and see what they have to say. Get informed from someone who has seen both sides, and I'm sure you'll hear what you need to. The FS is losing employees to Cal Fire at an unsustainable rate. I challenge you to find anyone who has gone from Cal Fire to the feds and has good things to say, if you can even find someone who has transfered from state to fed. I'm sure the FS has its place in other states, but its policies and procedures make for a dangerous recipe in California firefighting. There's a reason the FS doesn't even hold formal interviews for their seasonal employees. Good luck to you



    http://articles.latimes.com/2009/sep...station-fire29

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    Quote Originally Posted by RxFire View Post
    When do they throwout the last season's Open Continuous Roster and open a new one? I've been under the impression that the calender year brings a new application period for the OCR.
    I should have clarified I always update my AVUE and USAJOBS profile in October with the idea that a lot of places tend to start pulling first round certs in January or February. As far as when the new application period begins I'm not certain.

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    bah the things i wanna say
    Last edited by nicknoriega; 04-21-2010 at 04:43 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nicknoriega View Post
    bah the things i wanna say
    Enlighten Us...
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    Talking My lovely forestry life.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bushwhacker View Post
    Enlighten Us...
    Well I had quite a difficult time getting on with the forest service. I feel like both have negatives and positives. I don’t really appreciate the way people have been talking about the Forest Service in a negative manner. I have always personally been a Cal Fire guy for the benefits and for the money. But i think being with the Forest Service is more for those that don’t mind diving into a deep life of spike outs, extremely long hours, and really long hikes. Your minimum work day on a fire is 16 hours, and ive had buddies tell me stories of cutting line for 72 hours with no sleep and one lunch. It was a real eye opener for me when I thought i knew what I was getting into, I really had NO idea. For me its not about the money. I’ve spent to much time and have been very dedicated about perusing my career and goals. For me to get hired for the Forest Service I acquired my: 49th Butte Fire Academy, EMT-B (Spent 7 months working on a ambulance), ICS 100,200,700, along with about 20 other certs I have gotten. But truth is my only luck came with about a year and a half of emailing some Hotshot captains and making some phone calls. I finally got a chance only to go through one of the most difficult and challenging times of my life. I would also encourage anyone that thinks the Forest Service is nonsense to go live the life as a 1st year rookie. I would be very surprised if very many Cal Fire guys could even operate on the physical standards that a Hotshot Crew does. Imagine spending up to 2 weeks on a fire sleeping on the ground with no tents and eating MRE's. Not to include little sleep and fatigue like ive never imagined, hotfoot, hot sawing, cutting line, directing bucket drops, One fire i was hiking 18 miles a day! When I started I went "t*ts up" more times than i can remember. But lets face it, all the guys from the feds know what I mean when I say that I cant even begin to describe what its really like. I am currently on Eagle Lake Hand crew for ELRD in Susanville, CA. But despite my goals as a Cal Fire Firefighter, the Forest Service never has let me down. I feel like it is also giving me a ton of first hand experience. It’s preparing me to endure anything and I’ve never had a job where 20 other guys are like your brothers. To be completely honest I kind of got a tainted view of Cal Fire last season due to how poorly we were treated, but I will still have the respect for all organizations (Which was rather unfortunate due to the fact that I want to work for Cal Fire one day. so Cal Fire guys...lets be a little more helpfull between organizations eh?). I understand the competition and some crews/engines represent the organization they work for poorly. I have been reading through everyone’s posts and it seems as some are a little ignorant and its hard for me to just let people talk poorly about who I represent. I still have a ton to learn and last year was my first year of many. Before all you prospects start judging, try to dig a little deeper and find out what its all about. Last year was one of the greatest times of my life and wouldn’t trade it for anyone. I leave in 19 days to start my season again and I’m nothing more than eager to get back into it. I encourage anyone to take any experience you can in the most humble way. This is my perspective of the Forest Service and I’m nothing but positive for this job. One day I hope to achieve a position with Cal Fire...But for now I cant think of a life that makes me happier. I hope to see some of your Forestry guys out there this year!

    Im really only giving my opinion as Im on a handcrew, The Feds Engine guys will have to speak for themselves.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nicknoriega View Post
    Well I had quite a difficult time getting on with the forest service. I feel like both have negatives and positives. I donít really appreciate the way people have been talking about the Forest Service in a negative manner. I have always personally been a Cal Fire guy for the benefits and for the money. But i think being with the Forest Service is more for those that donít mind diving into a deep life of spike outs, extremely long hours, and really long hikes. Your minimum work day on a fire is 16 hours, and ive had buddies tell me stories of cutting line for 72 hours with no sleep and one lunch. It was a real eye opener for me when I thought i knew what I was getting into, I really had NO idea. For me its not about the money. Iíve spent to much time and have been very dedicated about perusing my career and goals. For me to get hired for the Forest Service I acquired my: 49th Butte Fire Academy, EMT-B (Spent 7 months working on a ambulance), ICS 100,200,700, along with about 20 other certs I have gotten. But truth is my only luck came with about a year and a half of emailing some Hotshot captains and making some phone calls. I finally got a chance only to go through one of the most difficult and challenging times of my life. I would also encourage anyone that thinks the Forest Service is nonsense to go live the life as a 1st year rookie. I would be very surprised if very many Cal Fire guys could even operate on the physical standards that a Hotshot Crew does. Imagine spending up to 2 weeks on a fire sleeping on the ground with no tents and eating MRE's. Not to include little sleep and fatigue like ive never imagined, hotfoot, hot sawing, cutting line, directing bucket drops, One fire i was hiking 18 miles a day! When I started I went "t*ts up" more times than i can remember. But lets face it, all the guys from the feds know what I mean when I say that I cant even begin to describe what its really like. I am currently on Eagle Lake Hand crew for ELRD in Susanville, CA. But despite my goals as a Cal Fire Firefighter, the Forest Service never has let me down. I feel like it is also giving me a ton of first hand experience. Itís preparing me to endure anything and Iíve never had a job where 20 other guys are like your brothers. To be completely honest I kind of got a tainted view of Cal Fire last season due to how poorly we were treated, but I will still have the respect for all organizations (Which was rather unfortunate due to the fact that I want to work for Cal Fire one day. so Cal Fire guys...lets be a little more helpfull between organizations eh?). I understand the competition and some crews/engines represent the organization they work for poorly. I have been reading through everyoneís posts and it seems as some are a little ignorant and its hard for me to just let people talk poorly about who I represent. I still have a ton to learn and last year was my first year of many. Before all you prospects start judging, try to dig a little deeper and find out what its all about. Last year was one of the greatest times of my life and wouldnít trade it for anyone. I leave in 19 days to start my season again and Iím nothing more than eager to get back into it. I encourage anyone to take any experience you can in the most humble way. This is my perspective of the Forest Service and Iím nothing but positive for this job. One day I hope to achieve a position with Cal Fire...But for now I cant think of a life that makes me happier. I hope to see some of your Forestry guys out there this year!

    Im really only giving my opinion as Im on a handcrew, The Feds Engine guys will have to speak for themselves.
    That'ta Boy...Thats all i need to say.
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    Well said Nick.

    I have never worked for CDF, but my wife did, my two brothers did, I lived next door to the head cheese for the ranger unit. I have worked with them many times, and there are the "doctornal differences", but there is a difference between FS and BLM, and NPS vs. non-NPS (I was a Parkie for a while). The FS is the favorite bad guy of the fed's. Sure, we are slow and change can take a while to come, especially when it comes out of the WO.

    I've been mostly an engine slug for my career. I applied to a IHC, but things didn't work out. IMO, I think fed wildland firefighters are better firefighters because they jump around from handcrews, to engines, to helitack, and smokejumpers. You have more tools in your toolbox to pick from to apply to your tatical situation. I've seen CDF captains refuse to leave the engine and help cut line, "because that what the CDC crews do, not engines crews" (I'm not saying all CDF captains are this way, but I've encountered this attitude more than once).

    Maybe us fed guys are used to having to do so much with so little, that when someone has better support, we get defensive. *shrug*

    I like the FS because I like being out in the woods... crusing timber, wildlife surveys, etc, and fighting fires. Would I like to make more $$ for what I do... YES, but I make things work.. I don't have a brand new truck, or a 4 wheeler, but I can provide for my family as a sole wage earner.

    I got into fire to get a job, but I like helping people as well, so I am also on the VFD. It's I suppose the best of both worlds. Every individual will have to find what works for them.

    So, that's my late night rambles on this.
    IACOJ
    Stopping controlled burning DOES NOT stop the burning, only the control!
    http://www.wy.blm.gov/fireuse/fums.htm

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    Quote Originally Posted by nicknoriega View Post
    Well I had quite a difficult time getting on with the forest service. I feel like both have negatives and positives. I donít really appreciate the way people have been talking about the Forest Service in a negative manner. I have always personally been a Cal Fire guy for the benefits and for the money. But i think being with the Forest Service is more for those that donít mind diving into a deep life of spike outs, extremely long hours, and really long hikes. Your minimum work day on a fire is 16 hours, and ive had buddies tell me stories of cutting line for 72 hours with no sleep and one lunch. It was a real eye opener for me when I thought i knew what I was getting into, I really had NO idea. For me its not about the money. Iíve spent to much time and have been very dedicated about perusing my career and goals. For me to get hired for the Forest Service I acquired my: 49th Butte Fire Academy, EMT-B (Spent 7 months working on a ambulance), ICS 100,200,700, along with about 20 other certs I have gotten. But truth is my only luck came with about a year and a half of emailing some Hotshot captains and making some phone calls. I finally got a chance only to go through one of the most difficult and challenging times of my life. I would also encourage anyone that thinks the Forest Service is nonsense to go live the life as a 1st year rookie. I would be very surprised if very many Cal Fire guys could even operate on the physical standards that a Hotshot Crew does. Imagine spending up to 2 weeks on a fire sleeping on the ground with no tents and eating MRE's. Not to include little sleep and fatigue like ive never imagined, hotfoot, hot sawing, cutting line, directing bucket drops, One fire i was hiking 18 miles a day! When I started I went "t*ts up" more times than i can remember. But lets face it, all the guys from the feds know what I mean when I say that I cant even begin to describe what its really like. I am currently on Eagle Lake Hand crew for ELRD in Susanville, CA. But despite my goals as a Cal Fire Firefighter, the Forest Service never has let me down. I feel like it is also giving me a ton of first hand experience. Itís preparing me to endure anything and Iíve never had a job where 20 other guys are like your brothers. To be completely honest I kind of got a tainted view of Cal Fire last season due to how poorly we were treated, but I will still have the respect for all organizations (Which was rather unfortunate due to the fact that I want to work for Cal Fire one day. so Cal Fire guys...lets be a little more helpfull between organizations eh?). I understand the competition and some crews/engines represent the organization they work for poorly. I have been reading through everyoneís posts and it seems as some are a little ignorant and its hard for me to just let people talk poorly about who I represent. I still have a ton to learn and last year was my first year of many. Before all you prospects start judging, try to dig a little deeper and find out what its all about. Last year was one of the greatest times of my life and wouldnít trade it for anyone. I leave in 19 days to start my season again and Iím nothing more than eager to get back into it. I encourage anyone to take any experience you can in the most humble way. This is my perspective of the Forest Service and Iím nothing but positive for this job. One day I hope to achieve a position with Cal Fire...But for now I cant think of a life that makes me happier. I hope to see some of your Forestry guys out there this year!

    Im really only giving my opinion as Im on a handcrew, The Feds Engine guys will have to speak for themselves.
    Aside from the lack of paragraphs very well said.

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    it is nice to hear all the opinions from what seems to be great sources. the advice is definately being taken, however I still can't find any luck on the job hunt. I have, what I think, is great experience and an even better motivation to work. Anyone on here looking for a man for their engine or hand crew? lol I don't care where it is, I want to work!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by returnFF View Post
    Aside from the lack of paragraphs very well said.
    Haha. I was in a bit of a rush and just put down what came out. Sorry about that guys.

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