1. #1
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    Default Idle Reduction Technology

    I've been looking at the Green Star idle reduction technology offered by Rosenbauer. It looks like a great idea from what I can see, with even more cost savings potential with the addition of 2010-urea equipped motors.

    http://www.rosenbaueramerica.com/green_star/

    Curious to know what others think and if any other builders offer or are planning similar technology?

    C6

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    I have a key on my apparatus and a genset. Shut truck engine off as appropriate and start genset when needed. How hard is that?

    APUs on semis work but expensive and now typically only used in truck stops/areas that ban idling. Many of these areas are installing shorelines so don't need to by APU. An "issue" is that "all other" diesels soon have to meet the Tier ____ emissions standards. As I recall this current APUs do not have this BS but will soon have to add it.

    Solution in search of a problem?

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    Default Can you provide 12 volt power from your Genset

    Quote Originally Posted by neiowa View Post
    I have a key on my apparatus and a genset. Shut truck engine off as appropriate and start genset when needed. How hard is that?

    APUs on semis work but expensive and now typically only used in truck stops/areas that ban idling. Many of these areas are installing shorelines so don't need to by APU. An "issue" is that "all other" diesels soon have to meet the Tier ____ emissions standards. As I recall this current APUs do not have this BS but will soon have to add it.

    Solution in search of a problem?
    I think part of the solution Rosie provides is that the APU also powers your 12 volt systems keeping your warning lights/radio.ect powered.

    I think in your larger cities, that may respond 4 or more engines on a structure fire with only one doing any pumping - the others idling for hours, this may not be a bad solution.

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    Default Green Technology

    Anyone know what Rosenbauer's saying their Green Technology is worth as an OPTION? I would think it's pricy and now with LED lighting most apparatus don't have as much issue with needing the engine running AND the operator's should/could shutoff the rigs that are on scene of a major incident and not being used than leaving everything on (Wipers/Lights/Warning Lights) and the rig just sitting there.

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    No word on cost, but according to the promo material, you get double duty as a genset that supplies both line and low voltage.

    If true, you wouldn't need a hydraulic generator which would offset some of the costs.

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    From what I've been told, the cost is not much more than a hydraulic generator. There are different options though which haven't been discussed. The APU, if equipped with the option will even keep your Heat/AC running with the chassis engine off. As you know, many department's in the South will keep their trucks running just to keep the cab cool. You can also hook the system up to your shoreline and keep your cab cool when it's sitting in the station.

    The greatest thing with the system is it's automatic. You don't have to rely on your firefighters to shut the truck off. The system will do it after a set time. The biggest cost savings may be from DPF maintenance. The hardest thing on the DPF's is letting the truck sit at idle for extended periods of time. This could potentially save you thousands depending on how you operate your apparatus.

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    Default Green Technology

    Sounds like a good idea and not new IE Aircraft EPU's basically are the same so has anyone seen an actual spec as to what is offered and its performance?

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    Rosey says on their website that the APU is only rated at 7.9 kw if I remember correctly. In the FAQ sections, it states that you can't have a hydraulic generator.
    Can you use this on a commercial chassis or just custom?

    If the APU takes over and controls the HVAC for the cab, does it have a second HVAC system or does it tie into the chassis system some how?

    What brand diesel engine is powering the APU?

    I think it's a interesting idea but have other departments used this yet and how is it performing?

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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Aerialguy11 View Post
    Anyone know what Rosenbauer's saying their Green Technology is worth as an OPTION? I would think it's pricy and now with LED lighting most apparatus don't have as much issue with needing the engine running AND the operator's should/could shutoff the rigs that are on scene of a major incident and not being used than leaving everything on (Wipers/Lights/Warning Lights) and the rig just sitting there.
    LED's draw less power of course. But that doesn't mean you run them on battery reliably. The 10,000 LED's that come on a modern apparatus will still kill a battery with the alternator carrying the load.
    Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

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    Just had a sales guy in today who sells Spartan chassis tell me he thought it was about $20K more than a standard 8KW generator. Don't know how accurate that is-he could have been downplaying it to compete with Rosenbauer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gunnyv View Post
    Just had a sales guy in today who sells Spartan chassis tell me he thought it was about $20K more than a standard 8KW generator. Don't know how accurate that is-he could have been downplaying it to compete with Rosenbauer.
    How many calls or years would it take for this option to pay for it's self? Maybe if the idea catches on or other manufactures start offering this, then the price may drop.

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    We bought the Tech Drive 75' quint from last year. It has Green Star. For all the goodies it was a little more (I think $1,200) than the straight hydraulic generator. But it runs the AC , the 12v lights and the 120v lights. Because the aerial is our second due, it can sit and idle. The system kicks in at about 30 seconds and shuts the truck down. The only problem we have is if you sit somewhere with the parking brake on (someone runs into a store) the system engages if you exceed the timer. For this truck we think it was worth it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bigjim54 View Post
    We bought the Tech Drive 75' quint from last year. It has Green Star. For all the goodies it was a little more (I think $1,200) than the straight hydraulic generator. But it runs the AC , the 12v lights and the 120v lights. Because the aerial is our second due, it can sit and idle. The system kicks in at about 30 seconds and shuts the truck down. The only problem we have is if you sit somewhere with the parking brake on (someone runs into a store) the system engages if you exceed the timer. For this truck we think it was worth it.
    Does your truck have two HVAC systems? One that is run off the chassis engine and one that is run of the Green Star option or is the Green Start incorporated into to the chassis system?

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    Default A/C System

    I would think it has TWO systems. If the primary compressor is belt driven off the main engine, the back up would have to be belt driven off the APU engine or there is one or more roof mounted RV style electric powered A/C units.

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    I wonder if this Idle Reduction system is avaiable only on a custom chassis? Can it be used on a commercial chassis? I would think it would harder to a commercial chassis due to warranty coverage if the HVAC system ties in with the chassis HVAC system. Who fixes it if something goes wrong?

    With the price of fuel going up this idea might catch on quickly. If the new 2010 engines with all the emissions crap on them are supposed to be super clean, then idling shouldn't be a issue other then the amount of fuel being used.

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    If it truly is only $1200 extra for this option, we would easily make our money back in a year, based on our run volume.

    Does any other manufacturer offer a similar system, or is Rosenbauer the only one?

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    Low volume departments will not see a cost savings going to and APU,SPU,SPS, Greenstar or whatever the mfg is calling their system. However departments that run a large volume of calls will see a huge cost savings in the form of reduced fuel consumption, oil changes wear and tear, etc... Factor in the DPF regeneration and added maintenance cost of cleaning. Many departments even the larger deaprtments have to perform forced regenerations that can equate to 30min - a couple hours sitting outside in front of the station. I recomend that if you are considering this techonology to start pulling engine information from the engine ECM. I have seen departments that have idle times between 60%-70%. Sorry I don't have any ROI information but I'm sure that the information is available, especially with the number of companies that are starting to embrace and promote this techno,ogy. Also be sure to check with the Department of energy there may be cost share funds available to add this to a new vehicle, don;t forget to check on at the local and state levels as well.

    I don't want to insinuate that this is not a viable option for smaller departments, you just won't see the savings benefit and probably won't se a full return on your investment. Going green may be all the return you need to spec this option on your next rig!

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    Default The Color of GREEN $$$

    Good discussion. Sounds like there may be opportunity for some ROI and or reduced fuel costs for the dept. May have some tradeoff on performance in the case of recovery on a hot day (in the real cold our pumps are running anyway, and it can be hard to heat the cab even with the engine).

    Does anyone know if its actulally cleaner, as far as environmental emmissions? Versus our new engines which in some of the dirtiest areas of the country can actully produce cleaner air than they take in at idle...

    Anyway, its interesting from a marketing perspective, but as I don't pay the fuel bill I probably will have a hard time compromising the performance of the things I need, while displacing equipment for a unit that just has more redundant components that I already paid for.

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    If I have a truck/engine sitting at a scene doing nothing....I try and shut it off. Never understood why on a well blocked road, multiple engines/trucks sit there with all their lights on during the day.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bones42 View Post
    If I have a truck/engine sitting at a scene doing nothing....I try and shut it off. Never understood why on a well blocked road, multiple engines/trucks sit there with all their lights on during the day.
    That is our SOP. If it isn't needed, then it is shut down. Seen quite a few multiple alarm fires with rigs staged, and none of them running in the staging area. Only time they are, is during the winter for the engines to keep the water flowing and everything warm. Other than that, they are shut down.

    FM1
    I'm the one Fire and Rescue calls, when they need to be Rescued.

    Quote Originally Posted by EastKyFF
    "Firemens gets antsies. Theys wants to goes to fires. Sometimeses they haves to waits."

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    Cool Is it really a good idea?

    I agree with the basic concept, to a point.

    All of that is fine and dandy until the time that little diesel engine fails to start.

    From what I have seen of apparatus maintenance in my 30+ years, it will work just fine for a few months maybe even a year or so. Then, due to lack of maintenance, it will fail.

    Then you have a $500,000 pumper or a $1,000,000 aerial sitting out of service waiting on a part for the IRT engine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hehateme View Post
    I agree with the basic concept, to a point.

    All of that is fine and dandy until the time that little diesel engine fails to start.

    From what I have seen of apparatus maintenance in my 30+ years, it will work just fine for a few months maybe even a year or so. Then, due to lack of maintenance, it will fail.

    Then you have a $500,000 pumper or a $1,000,000 aerial sitting out of service waiting on a part for the IRT engine.
    More than likely it wouldn't take the truck out of service. You would just run it without the green mode. Many departments run diesel generators rather then hydraulic generators and they have proven to be quite reliable.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FIREMECH1 View Post
    That is our SOP. If it isn't needed, then it is shut down. Seen quite a few multiple alarm fires with rigs staged, and none of them running in the staging area. Only time they are, is during the winter for the engines to keep the water flowing and everything warm. Other than that, they are shut down.

    FM1
    Some of you are missing what this has the potential of doing. Yes if it was as easy as just shutting the truck down then flip the switch and shut the truck off. What this does is if you are demanding the full pwer of the chassis engine, I.E. Driving down the road, pupm operations. then the main engine (Chassis will be the power source. However if you are staging, parked on the side of the road, or needing scene lights (A/C Power) then the smaller APU will be providing the power necessary for what is needed. The concept is based around needed power for the task at hand. No different than what engine manufacturers have tried to do for years. Cadillac was one of the first shutting down cylinders when traveling down highway. Class 8 manufcaturers have done this as well with variable horsepower. This is taking it to the next level with a separate engine.

    As I have stated earlier this isn't for everyone however, calculate the fuel cost, maitenance costs, and it's easy to see cost advantages for high volume departments. Try thinking outside the box. If it was as simple as shutting off the engine why are all of the major players in the Fire Apparatus industry investing in this. They aren't reinventing the wheel, they are taking proven technologies and repackaging to meet the needs of the fire service.
    Last edited by furetruckguy30; 04-30-2011 at 11:41 PM. Reason: can't type

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