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    Default Passing the darn computer scoring

    Are there any tips for getting past the computer scoring and into the narratives? It still seems that rural, low volume depts. with antiquated equipment and no tax money seem to be on the short end of the stick. What makes that dangerous is our reliance on MA with fewer volunteers available yet we are responding greater distances.

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    Well I was going to say everything that onebugle di but, you beat me to it due so ditto to what he said.
    Kurt Bradley
    Fire/EMS/EMA Grant Consultant
    " Never Trade Skill for Luck"

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    I hear ya. There isn't much sympathy for us either. In my last post in the population question thread, I try to address this in a way to stack the deck in my favor. Desperate.
    I also have concerns that the new software is not exactly primo stuff either. Seems the first thing they enter is the usual demographic, population size.

    Syracuse University did an in depth study of donations to charities and where the burden of taxes goes and who gets them. Mississippi donates more to charities than any other state. The rural areas of the Texas, the midwest and the plains pay a higher portion of taxes per average citizen in specific rural areas. In a way that they get lesser return.

    So the old demographic of population per square mile is always easiest to justify and use.

    Well, I'm a southern city boy who used to complain about how farmers could only farm by getting federal subsidies too. (true)

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    Quote Originally Posted by penman View Post
    Are there any tips for getting past the computer scoring and into the narratives? It still seems that rural, low volume depts. with antiquated equipment and no tax money seem to be on the short end of the stick. What makes that dangerous is our reliance on MA with fewer volunteers available yet we are responding greater distances.
    Statistics are just that and there is no way to change them except illegally. First make sure the project meets the priorities of the program. Low priority items will hurt the overall score. The only thing that can change is the cost of the project. By reducing the cost/benefit will provide a better chance of getting past the computer.

    If you are doing an Ops grant make sure it's not a shopping list, in some cases it could mean only 2 items. If that's occurring break it down into smaller segments and apply for the equipment over multiple years. Ex. the project includes SCBA & cascade/compressor/fill station. Even though together it's a doable project, but for small departments it's the computer DJ. Apply for SCBA the first year and the cascade/compressor/fill station the second year. It reduces the cost/benefit making the project a successful one. This type of approach is being done by alot of smaller departments with success each and every year.

    For a vehicle grant; remember you are asking for a Chevy and not a Cadillac. If the price asks for all the bells and whistles it will not fly; cut those items out. If you have the ability to overmatch the grant do so; this reduces the amount asked for improving that cost/benefit.

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    Yes I agree completely with that position. We applied for just 8 SCBAs to begin replacing our antiquated units. I guess for '10' we will try for 4 instead. We belong to a 15 town MA association. On most calls, one or often 3 or 4 towns are toned out because manpower is short. If it's a large structure fire or wildfire we will double that number. But when filling out our computer forms that is not considered. For 2010 I guess it's even worst although I have not seen the AFG write up yet. There is a minimum amount of reasonably up to date equipment needed to keep rural firefighters and their MA towns safe. Many of us are a NIOSH report away from catastrophe. Scrounging only goes so far. Vent ended.

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    Quote Originally Posted by penman View Post
    Yes I agree completely with that position. We applied for just 8 SCBAs to begin replacing our antiquated units. I guess for '10' we will try for 4 instead. We belong to a 15 town MA association. On most calls, one or often 3 or 4 towns are toned out because manpower is short. If it's a large structure fire or wildfire we will double that number. But when filling out our computer forms that is not considered. For 2010 I guess it's even worst although I have not seen the AFG write up yet. There is a minimum amount of reasonably up to date equipment needed to keep rural firefighters and their MA towns safe. Many of us are a NIOSH report away from catastrophe. Scrounging only goes so far. Vent ended.
    Are you following the Program Guidance in replacing only those that are not within stated compliance factors and only asking for the number equivalent to the # of seatbelted postions on your "firefighting fleet"?
    Kurt Bradley
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    One thing I've seen locally is in how different departments classify runs, at some times doing themselves a disservice.

    I've seen departments classify flue fires as service calls, and some as structure fires. I've seen some that classify a call as an extrication if the patient's not self-extricated and they had to remove them from the car, even if it doesn't involve HRT's. Some will put nuisance brush pile fires as vegetation fires.

    While I don't condone tweaking definitions, some departments do misclassify some runs that could better help their cause if classified correctly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by penman View Post
    Yes I agree completely with that position. We applied for just 8 SCBAs to begin replacing our antiquated units. I guess for '10' we will try for 4 instead. We belong to a 15 town MA association. On most calls, one or often 3 or 4 towns are toned out because manpower is short. If it's a large structure fire or wildfire we will double that number. But when filling out our computer forms that is not considered. For 2010 I guess it's even worst although I have not seen the AFG write up yet. There is a minimum amount of reasonably up to date equipment needed to keep rural firefighters and their MA towns safe. Many of us are a NIOSH report away from catastrophe. Scrounging only goes so far. Vent ended.
    I hear you loud and clear. I have a first due population of 148 but share the same zipcode with an employer with 1200 employees. I would kill to be able to use those figures. So with a population of 148 and asking for $200,000 for a reasonable basic tanker, it gets a little scary. I started with asking for a used tanker, but others convinced me to go new.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ktb9780 View Post
    Are you following the Program Guidance in replacing only those that are not within stated compliance factors and only asking for the number equivalent to the # of seatbelted postions on your "firefighting fleet"?
    Yes to both.:rolleyes

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    Quote Originally Posted by penman View Post
    Yes I agree completely with that position. We applied for just 8 SCBAs to begin replacing our antiquated units. I guess for '10' we will try for 4 instead. We belong to a 15 town MA association. On most calls, one or often 3 or 4 towns are toned out because manpower is short. If it's a large structure fire or wildfire we will double that number. But when filling out our computer forms that is not considered. For 2010 I guess it's even worst although I have not seen the AFG write up yet. There is a minimum amount of reasonably up to date equipment needed to keep rural firefighters and their MA towns safe. Many of us are a NIOSH report away from catastrophe. Scrounging only goes so far. Vent ended.
    If I'm reading this correctly you have not been asking for a 100% solution to the SCBA issue. It looks like you are trying to piece meal this issue over a number of years; which will not fly with the AFG as well. You would have to submit for all of the SCBA to be replaced to show the department will achieve 100% compliance to NFPA 1981 2007 edition.

    How did you answer this question in the request for details section.

    If you are requesting new SCBA, what percentage of your seated riding positions will have complaint SCBA assigned to it if this grant is awarded?
    How many SCBA do you have and what edition are they for NFPA 1981?

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    Quote Originally Posted by onebugle View Post
    If I'm reading this correctly you have not been asking for a 100% solution to the SCBA issue. It looks like you are trying to piece meal this issue over a number of years; which will not fly with the AFG as well. You would have to submit for all of the SCBA to be replaced to show the department will achieve 100% compliance to NFPA 1981 2007 edition.

    How did you answer this question in the request for details section.



    How many SCBA do you have and what edition are they for NFPA 1981?
    We have 4 that meet the 1997 edition and 5 that meet the older standards. We have 8 seats not counting the wildfire truck.
    Last edited by penman; 04-23-2010 at 10:20 PM. Reason: sp.

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    Quote Originally Posted by penman View Post
    We have 4 that meet the 1997 edition and 5 that meet the older standards. We have 8 seats not counting the wildfire truck.
    What is the population?

    How many incidents?

    How many structure fires?

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    Quote Originally Posted by onebugle View Post
    What is the population?

    How many incidents?

    How many structure fires?
    550, 25 mostly ems, 5. Thanks for your input Onebugle.

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