Face Piece or no Face piece?? That is the question...

[FWDbuff]

My job as a firefighter isnt to do a walkaround. Thats the captain's job.

And that is a BS statement if I ever heard one. Each and every person on the fireground needs to do their own size-up.

Any good Company Officer worth half his weight is going to tell you to do your own evaluation on top of his. He will not be swayed by it, insulted by it, or upset by it. Additionally, he will welcome input by any senior members if asked for it.

I once had a crusty Captain tell me when I first started working for him "Kid, I wanna go home just as much as you do. So when we get there, you have a look-see for yourself. And if you see anything that jumps out at you that I don't see, I wanna know about it!"

[hwoods]

How do you get the horses to wear a headset?

TRAINING, My Dear Sir, TRAINING.............

[hwoods]

Just to stand in the yard??? Isn't this a bit overkill?

Of course it isn't...... What about the Apparatus exhaust??

[LaFireEducator]

Department SOP states that the crew, with the exception of the officer, will step off the apparatus masked up for any reported fire, with the exception of brush only.

Officer has the option of mask on or off.

Last department had the same SOP.

[FWDbuff]

Department SOP states that the crew, with the exception of the officer, will step off the apparatus masked up for any reported fire, with the exception of brush only.

Officer has the option of mask on or off.

Last department had the same SOP.

Just to stand in the yard??? Isn't this a bit overkill?

[fireemt19]

I think some are getting something confused here. Donning the SCBA back pack with cylinder, WITH the face piece attached and in operation while enroute isn't what should be happening. Some runs would have you out of or low on air by the time you did arrive. This makes you useless.

Yes put the harness with cylinder on while enroute if you can.

Once at the job, if needed, put the face piece on prior going inside or beginning firefighting operations and go ON AIR!!

Trying to exit a fire apparatus with the face piece on is the most foolish thing that a member could do. First of all it cuts your vison down and if at night its even worst.

Officers and chiefs who make members put the whole scba, with face piece on while enroute should be taken to the side and reamed a new one!

bingo i think we have a winner. i agree 100%. DON'T put your mask on in the rig. Do your own size up, look and listen - its hard to do both with your scba mask on and hood on. this is a must because your the one going inside and you should do as much as you can to know about what your going into and where your going.

I personally can't stand yard breathers, I just don't get it, maybe they have tunnel vision?, why stay on air upon exiting the IDLH or putting your air on before entering or even getting close to your IDLH? or even keeping your mask on upon exiting?

Also anyone know of anyway other way of defogging the mask other than using the purge valve? Do you think that something such as a "rain-x" type of product could be developed to help keep our masks from fogging up?

[Jonnee]

I think some are getting something confused here. Donning the SCBA back pack with cylinder, WITH the face piece attached and in operation while enroute isn't what should be happening. Some runs would have you out of or low on air by the time you did arrive. This makes you useless.

Yes put the harness with cylinder on while enroute if you can.

Once at the job, if needed, put the face piece on prior going inside or beginning firefighting operations and go ON AIR!!

Trying to exit a fire apparatus with the face piece on is the most foolish thing that a member could do. First of all it cuts your vison down and if at night its even worst.

Officers and chiefs who make members put the whole scba, with face piece on while enroute should be taken to the side and reamed a new one!

[Eng34FF]

For RIT I do not mask up until entering the IDLH. I can understand your veiw of wanting to get in quick and not wasting the time to have to don your face mask. However by having you RIT guys masked up, you limit their ablity to see and identify problems as they occur.

I agree completely with this statement and have had discussions with other officers in my department about this. If the RIT needs to enter from the other side of the house, or as stated before needs to move a ladder, the mask makes it more difficult. I do agree that they should be packed up, with the air valve open, but not masked up or on air.

[EngineCO38]

I don't believe it was ever in our SOP's, but the officers used to be pretty persistent about us masking up for any AFA that came in. So for the longest time that is how we ran, the two (Or one) in the back masked up on the way in. If it was nothing, we could just take it off, if there was something we were ready. It was a PITA, and often times we would be blind with fog before we even entered the building.

This has fallen from practice, and now we only mask up while en-route to a possible or confirmed working fire. For one I'm glad that we used to run it that way, its now muscle memory putting a mask on. I encourage the rooks to mask up for everything, to get them used to getting ready so when the time comes they aren't fumbling around with the mask.

[johnny46]

And that is a BS statement if I ever heard one. Each and every person on the fireground needs to do their own size-up.

SIze up and walk around aren't neccesarily synonymous. I do the walk around. I might take a firefighter with me, but there's at least one guy accomplishing another needed task.

And since we use the clear plastic masks, we can see through them if the situation warrants having the mask on prior to making entry. It's not really an either or issue. In the case of our equipment in Houston, it's best to have the mask on en route a reasonable distance from the fire--it can be shucked later quite efficiently if needed. Putting it back on from there takes a little longer, but it's very doable. This chicken little crap about the mask preventing a proper size up or moving around on scene is ridiculous. Our residences are such that time from arrival to entry is low--there's no reason a crew on the first line can't have their masks on.

[FWDbuff]

SIze up and walk around aren't neccesarily synonymous. I do the walk around. I might take a firefighter with me, but there's at least one guy accomplishing another needed task.

And since we use the clear plastic masks, we can see through them if the situation warrants having the mask on prior to making entry. It's not really an either or issue. In the case of our equipment in Houston, it's best to have the mask on en route a reasonable distance from the fire--it can be shucked later quite efficiently if needed. Putting it back on from there takes a little longer, but it's very doable. This chicken little crap about the mask preventing a proper size up or moving around on scene is ridiculous. Our residences are such that time from arrival to entry is low--there's no reason a crew on the first line can't have their masks on.

Everyone has their own way of doing things. Around here, (not a problem in Houston, Tx) we have this thing called snow and ice- And if you have a mask on while getting out of the rig, you could very well not see it, and wind up flat on your azz.

We train our guys not to put on the mask until you reach the front door or the fire floor/area....It only takes a few seconds to take off your lid, put the mask on, put up your hood, and strap on your lid and plug in. If the fire is of such monstrous proportions or intensity that you can't afford a few extra seconds to mask up at the front door, I imagine the least of your worries is masking up period.

[FireMedic049]

We've done both. We recently changed our SOG so that we do NOT mask up in the truck. It's never made sense to me why you would mask up in the truck.

Couple thoughts:

1. I think those that do not see much fire are more comfortable masking up in the truck. They don't get enough practice with their SCBA and therefore prefer taking their time getting it right while in the truck. They may also get excited easy and not think clearly while at the door with all the adrenaline.

Just my opinion, but not enough practice is a poor reason to mask up on the truck and if they do so because they easily get so excited that they can't properly don their PPE in the front yard or front porch, then they should probably just stay on the truck when it arrives.

[WebFire]

We've done both. We recently changed our SOG so that we do NOT mask up in the truck. It's never made sense to me why you would mask up in the truck.

Couple thoughts:

1. I think those that do not see much fire are more comfortable masking up in the truck. They don't get enough practice with their SCBA and therefore prefer taking their time getting it right while in the truck. They may also get excited easy and not think clearly while at the door with all the adrenaline.

2. While I prefer masking at the door, one thing I see a lot of people commenting on is running out of air in the yard. I don't believe we are referring to actually being on air are we? When we do have people mask up enroute, they are simply putting the facepiece on, not going on air. So I think all those comments are irrelevant.

[nameless]

face piece goes on when you are going to go on air.


in the winter it'll fog/frost up if you put it on without flowing air. I also think it is unnecessary, you reduce your ability to talk and see while gaining nothing. It should take you a 15 seconds tops to put your facepiece on, pull up your hood and put your helmet on. It doesn't save a lot of time.

Unless you have a reason like the hoods they wear in Houston I don't see the point. Getting off the truck with your face piece on makes you look like an idiot. Its a dumb thing to do that just makes me think something is wrong

[Spencer534]

I understand where everyone is coming from but I completely trust the practical/real world experience of the chief that started this. We've been doing it now for a couple of years and havent had any issues. I'm not out to fool anyone, we're not fighting fires everyday, but it works for us. We have to be a little more aware with where we walk, etc, but dont have issues with fatigue, vision. Fogging is not an issue. To be clear, we're not going on air and we're not putting it on in route to the scene.

[ChiefKN]

Our RIT dons facepieces when they get in place (after assuring ladders are thrown, equipment out, etc). This way they can immediately help someone. Used to notice fogging, but havent noticed/paid attention to it recently.

Oh my god... you're kidding?

What good is wearing a facpiece for an hour? Talk about tunnel vision and fatigue.

Not to mention that RIT is not always going to go interior to facilitate helping a firefighter. It might just be an exterior ladder raise or move.

Sorry, I think this is overkill with very little actual benefit.

[pipeman1822]

We mask up on the fire floor if we decide we are going to go on air. I don't see a benefit or having it on if you aren't breathing air as well. It doesn't really save time at all. You should be able to mask up in about 10 seconds right? With all of the other problems that could be caused by wearing it the whole time is it really worth saving only 10 seconds?

Also, that's on the engine. If you're on a truck it makes even less sense. What if you never go in the building? We have five guys assigned to our trucks and each one has a job. If you're driver or tillerman, you go to the roof. So you might not even have an SCBA on. Hook man and officer are out throwing ladders and maybe cutting bars off the windows. No way am I doing all that masked up. Then if they do go inside or they are on the squad, they can do a search better without it on if they aren't near the fire. Especially if its a high rise. Climbing all those stairs and checking all those floors with a mask would be a pain.

[flipper123]

I ride backwards, and have put my facepiece on a very small amount of times while enroute.
It only happens when we are enroute to a first due fire with good indications of working fire and entrapment.
Other than that 1 situation where I may be going inside immediately, sometimes without waiting for the officer to go on air, I can't think of when it would be good practice to mask up enroute.
This happens so rarely that it's not an issue for me to worry about.

[len1582]

1. I think those that do not see much fire are more comfortable masking up in the truck. They don't get enough practice with their SCBA and therefore prefer taking their time getting it right while in the truck. They may also get excited easy and not think clearly while at the door with all the adrenaline.

If this is the case the company officer should get off his adz and do more inhouse drill on SCBA and ensure the people he's responsible for are properly trained on a piece of equipment that will keep them alive .

[JHR1985]

well if your standing outside for an hour being rit while the fire hasnt been put out, something is wrong

Every captain and station is different but I gear up with my facepiece before I get to the scene unless its a highrise. Here is the kicker... if its not needed, I can take it off

It takes a little bit longer to put the reed hood on properly compared to a sock, especially if you are wearing your coat already so we normally have it on before we step off.

As regarding a size up and walk around, my job is to stretch the hose out and get it ready. The captain's job is to do the walk around and come back. If I see something, then yes i'll inform him but i'm not gonna walk hand in hand with him while there are tasks needing to be done, unless he wants me to

As the tunnel vision, if your trained to do it, then its nothing you cant handle. Mask, no mask, hood, or no hood, in my opinon the tunnel vision is not caused by the mask but by the person and they are just using the mask as an excuse.

Try fighting a little bit of fire or training some and it should go away