1. #1
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    Default Breaks locking up after sitting

    Alright folks so here is the issue, our 2006 E-One pumper is having a bit of an issue. This has been ongoing for awhile, and its begun to frustrate me. I've had on many occasions, when I've tried to pull the rig out of the station after its been sitting for awhile. The breaks seem to lock up, even after I release the parking break. Even if you give it a bit of throttle it will hold in place, the damn thing wont budge.

    Its perplexing to me, as when I release the breaks I watch the air gauge it does its little drop of a few pounds. So it seems like everything should be working, but still the truck will not budge. The only way to unlock those breaks is to put the truck in reverse and back up an inch or so. After that they will free up and its no longer an issue. The only thing I can think of is that the maxi's on the rear are sticking?

    Is this a common problem? And if so is there an easy fix? Thanks for your help folks.
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    Take it out of service and call whoever does your maintenance, or repairs.

    It is not a common problem with any air brake equipped rig. You have a problem that needs to be looked into right now. It does happen though, and it does it because something isn't right. I won't go into details for the fear of you doing something you shouldn't.

    FM1
    I'm the one Fire and Rescue calls, when they need to be Rescued.

    Quote Originally Posted by EastKyFF
    "Firemens gets antsies. Theys wants to goes to fires. Sometimeses they haves to waits."

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    Quote Originally Posted by FIREMECH1 View Post
    Take it out of service and call whoever does your maintenance, or repairs.

    It is not a common problem with any air brake equipped rig. You have a problem that needs to be looked into right now. It does happen though, and it does it because something isn't right. I won't go into details for the fear of you doing something you shouldn't.

    FM1
    Thanks for the heads up, I'll give the recomendation to take the rig OOS. And don't worry about me doing something stupid, I just take notes on problems and rely to the right people. I figured that someone here might have some helpful info on the problem, and might be able to shed some light on what exactly is occuring. Thanks again.
    Opinions expressed by myself here are just that, mine. And not that of ANY organization or service I am affiliated with.

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    We had a '99 tanker doing this. The brake system had to be disassembled and cleaned. Some parts were corroded and not working correctly. Basically it's like doing a brake job without the new parts. We chose to put the new parts in.
    Last edited by wischief; 04-25-2010 at 06:52 AM. Reason: Spelling

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    We have a 2007 HME and a 2007 Freightliner and this happens to both of them all the time. We were told that the new brake pads cause this and theirs not much you can do about it. They both have done it from the day they were delivered.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pa6050 View Post
    We have a 2007 HME and a 2007 Freightliner and this happens to both of them all the time. We were told that the new brake pads cause this and theirs not much you can do about it. They both have done it from the day they were delivered.
    I in no way mean this as a slam, but if you have had brake problems from day one and you bought the trucks new. Why haven't you MADE the selling dealer fix the problem? I don't mean talked about it, gave you ideas, or blowed smoke up your backside and told you it was cloudy. I mean they take the truck and not bring it back to you until it is fixed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pa6050
    We have a 2007 HME and a 2007 Freightliner and this happens to both of them all the time. We were told that the new brake pads cause this and theirs not much you can do about it. They both have done it from the day they were delivered.
    You're either trying to blow smoke up our backside, or you really think that we are that gullible to believe what you just posted.

    Either way, you're full of it. Here's your red card.

    FM1
    I'm the one Fire and Rescue calls, when they need to be Rescued.

    Quote Originally Posted by EastKyFF
    "Firemens gets antsies. Theys wants to goes to fires. Sometimeses they haves to waits."

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    Angry

    It happens about once or twice a month on each you just tap the throttle and it pops off. I dont think that two different dealers of two different makes of trucks would have told us the same thing and have both of them lying to us. We have been dealing with this for two years now and not once has it not released or led to anything more so we have no reason not to believe what they told us. Ok Experts

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pa6050
    It happens about once or twice a month on each you just tap the throttle and it pops off. I dont think that two different dealers of two different makes of trucks would have told us the same thing and have both of them lying to us. We have been dealing with this for two years now and not once has it not released or led to anything more so we have no reason not to believe what they told us. Ok Experts
    You're first and biggest mistake is listening to the dealer(s).

    FM1
    I'm the one Fire and Rescue calls, when they need to be Rescued.

    Quote Originally Posted by EastKyFF
    "Firemens gets antsies. Theys wants to goes to fires. Sometimeses they haves to waits."

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    I'll throw the BS flag now. So the dealer(s) are telling you that the shoes are sticking because they are new. Unless you are putting new shoes on the truck every month then their idea won't hold water. As I said eariler, tell the dealer to come and get the truck and you don't want it back until it's fixed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pa6050 View Post
    We were told that the new brake pads cause this and theirs not much you can do about it.
    And you have this statement in writing from the Dealer, correct?

    I bet not. And I also bet that if you were to ask for this in writing, with the Dealer President's signature, you don't get it.

    Like Mech said, don't trust the dealer.

    Take them to an independent shop for an evaluation by a competent, ASE Certified (Heavy) technician. After the repairs are made, send the statements to the dealer demanding reimbursement.
    Last edited by FWDbuff; 04-26-2010 at 07:13 AM.
    "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

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    Composition of brake shoe material varies by the manufacturer and the grade of material. With some heavy braking equipment, there is a tendency for the binder material (some phenolic resins) to create a layer of phenolic on the drum. The manufacturers solution to this is to incorporate steel rovings (steel wool) into the shoe material mix before pressing. This "scrubs" the drums or rotors as brake pressure is applied. Returning to station on wet roads or salted roadways can cause the steel wool and the drum to develop a rust bond. Try making several light brake applications just prior to backing into the station to help dry the drums and lining face. Avoid spraying lots of water onto the brakes when washing the rig. Having said all this...I'm inclined to agree with others on here who say to carefully check the brakes for sticking in the mechanical linkage between the diaphragms and the shoes. A better grade of friction material will use brass rovings thus avoiding the rust problem. It will also help to conduct heat away from the friction material and into the shoe backing. If this rig is older than 4 years, I would clean the auto-adjuster mechanism and replace the grease in the adjuster.

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    Our service garage is an international dealer and they also told us what the two other dealers told us. The brakes are not getting hot enough to burn the buildup off and thats why they are sticking sometimes. Any one that has a good engine brake and too much excess GVW will have this problem.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pa6050 View Post
    Our service garage is an international dealer and they also told us what the two other dealers told us. The brakes are not getting hot enough to burn the buildup off and thats why they are sticking sometimes. Any one that has a good engine brake and too much excess GVW will have this problem.
    Run along skippy, you have been proven wrong and folks have found you out.

    No one will believe anything you post from now on.

    Go tell those BS'ings dealers that they are stupid.

    Are you from NY State?

    Are you straw brain in another screen name??

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    Pa6050.... It isn't a problem if you come along saying you were experiencing the same problems as the OP, and left it at that. The problem is, you bringing in the "fact" that you were told by dealers, that it was a normal thing. Dealers will tell you anything so they don't have to look at it, or deal with it. It isn't normal, not by a mile.

    Then you read Kuh's post, and fed off of that. And on top of that, you included a service garage that is a International dealer. As to score more browny points to reinforce your idiotic claim.

    I can guarantee that I've been doing brakes longer than you've been in the fire service. And I will tell you right now, as I did earlier, YOU are full of it.

    If you do have the same problem, get it fixed.

    FM1
    I'm the one Fire and Rescue calls, when they need to be Rescued.

    Quote Originally Posted by EastKyFF
    "Firemens gets antsies. Theys wants to goes to fires. Sometimeses they haves to waits."

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    I posted on this because this person was having the same problem as us. I told him what we were told the only person I am interested in hearing from is EngineCO38 (I hope he posts what they found out). You took it upon yourself to run your know it all mouth about a situation you are not part of. All I hear on here is about how every manufactuer and every dealer is lying and trying to rip everyone off. The fire apparatus industry has the dumbest most uneducated on what they are buying consumers of any industry in the world and these fourms prove it. I am no longer going to lower myself to post on these fourms where morons in the fire service run wild. I thought maybe I could save someone a buck or two by shareing our experiences but I guess not in this industry and profession. So F all u sub par idiots

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    And you also know what you can do Jonnee

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pa6050 View Post
    The fire apparatus industry has the dumbest most uneducated on what they are buying consumers of any industry in the world and these fourms prove it.
    Hey, we're not the azzhole who is falling for what the dealer is supposedly telling them!
    "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

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    I think one item that is missing is how long are the rigs sitting when the brakes stick? ALL of our rigs suffer sticky brakes from time to time. On both the air and hydraulic brake rigs. Organic pads/shoes are the worst for it. Moisture in the air condenses on the inside of the drum or outside of a rotor and forms rust. It also gets drawn into the lining material and forms a rust bond between the lining and the drum.

    Is it normal? YES, depending on how long the vehicle sets and the amount of moisture in the air.
    Is there something that can be done to stop it. Sort of. Heated bays, dehumidifiers, not parking a rig with hot brakes, not setting the P-brake until the brakes cool down. Move the rigs once a week.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pa6050 View Post
    I posted on this because this person was having the same problem as us. I told him what we were told the only person I am interested in hearing from is EngineCO38 (I hope he posts what they found out). You took it upon yourself to run your know it all mouth about a situation you are not part of. All I hear on here is about how every manufactuer and every dealer is lying and trying to rip everyone off. The fire apparatus industry has the dumbest most uneducated on what they are buying consumers of any industry in the world and these fourms prove it. I am no longer going to lower myself to post on these fourms where morons in the fire service run wild. I thought maybe I could save someone a buck or two by shareing our experiences but I guess not in this industry and profession. So F all u sub par idiots
    Did you get you kotex in sidways?

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    Default Brakes

    We have experienced this phenomenon when a rig with drum brakes is driven extremely hard and the brake drums get very hot and expand. If the brakes are set with the drums still very hot and then it sits for a long time before it's used again and the drums cool to ambient temperature and contract on the shoes causing a bind. When it does happen, very rarely, just back up and release the bind. But keep the brakes serviced and the slack adjusters lubed on regular bases.

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    Quote Originally Posted by donethat View Post
    We have experienced this phenomenon when a rig with drum brakes is driven extremely hard and the brake drums get very hot and expand. If the brakes are set with the drums still very hot and then it sits for a long time before it's used again and the drums cool to ambient temperature and contract on the shoes causing a bind. When it does happen, very rarely, just back up and release the bind. But keep the brakes serviced and the slack adjusters lubed on regular bases.
    Donethat thanks, you nailed it right on the head. I asked about it the other day and that is what I was told, and the trucks don't need to be taken OOS for it. I now let the truck idle outside the bays for a minute in neutral before I back in and set the parking break. It lets the breaks cool down a bit so they wont stick, and if someone forgets to do that and they do bind. I just back it up a bit before heading out. It's a simple fix that I hope to drill into the heads of the other drivers as well.

    Thanks to everyone for weighing in on this, I appreciate the help brothers (And sisters if your there)
    Opinions expressed by myself here are just that, mine. And not that of ANY organization or service I am affiliated with.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rm1524 View Post
    Did you get you kotex in sidways?
    Thank you. Now there is root beer all over the monitor.
    "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

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    Quote Originally Posted by FWDbuff View Post
    Thank you. Now there is root beer all over the monitor.
    Sorry about that boss. Do I need to send you some 409 and papertowels?

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