Global Secure SCBA

[wfdmilo]

My volunteer department, unfortunately purchased Pioneer Pro SCBA packs a few years back, and now we can not purchase parts, get them serviced, nor bench test them.

What are your opinions for getting these replaced through AFG, and getting them through the computer only being 4 years old? Any tips?

[BC79er]

None really. Unfortunately brand name choices are not a reason for replacing anything that's within it's usable lifetime, so you have 11 years left on those packs and at least 9 before a grant would even think of putting you in the competitive zone based on current guidelines. Same reason we encourage everyone to not buy the cheapest thing on the market with grant awards, make sure there are some minimums like company stability, serviceability, etc. Over 10-15 years $100 per unit difference isn't squat if you have to ship stuff or drive it all over creation when it breaks, and everything breaks.

[BC79er]

Argument yes, numbers no. They have to be marked as 2002 compliant so computer will kick them to the curb.

This is in response to rands, even though it's above it. Looks like time zone issues again. And they took that page out of our Profile so we can't edit that anymore and fix it ourselves...

[wfdmilo]

Right, the respirators are considered obsolete by NIOSH on their required test date or as soon as any service is required, but they were built to the NFPA 2002 standard. As they break and are taken out of service, we'd be more needy.

BTW, I voted for Scotts.

[rands1]

Wasn't global bought out by Carnes? If so, wasn't their a NIOSH bullitin that these packs are no longer NIOSH approved and should be taken out of service? With this said, I would think that you would have a very strong argument about replacing these packs.

[medic190]

Yes, I believe you are right. Regardless of their age and being (then) 2002 compliant, the NIOSH 'cert' was pulled and therefore, the packs can no longer be used since they are no longer NIOSH compliant. NFPA requires the pack to be NIOSH compliant, so therefore, the SCBA's you have (IMHO) are totally non-compliant. They cannot be flow tested, repaired,etc. so they are just scrap metal...

[BC79er]

Still can't get past the computer in AFG because they are owned and in service as 2002 compliant packs, regardless of what NIOSH says. Can't report them as 97s, or pre-97s, so no way to fill out the app without lying on it, which also gets it booted.

Again, it's all narrative arguments and I agree they're crappy packs that need replacing. But AFG isn't going to do it for the reasons above. Only option is to can them, buy some used stuff, and then spin the AFG wheel. Probably the more legally safe option since anyone hurt using them will get a nice fat settlement from the department's insurance company for "unreasonable" risk by using equipment that got recalled. Of course doubt that will happen since equipment may not be currently compliant, but at the time of manufacture they were so probably no chance at a lawsuit anyway. Only lawyers get rich off those...

[onebugle]

This is in response to rands, even though it's above it. Looks like time zone issues again. And they took that page out of our Profile so we can't edit that anymore and fix it ourselves...

Brian,

You can change the time zone issue through Private Messages. To the left is "Your Control Panel" go to Settings & Options and click on Edit Options; you are able to change the time zone issue there.

[BC79er]

Brian,

You can change the time zone issue through Private Messages. To the left is "Your Control Panel" go to Settings & Options and click on Edit Options; you are able to change the time zone issue there.

That wasn't there 2 weeks ago, so they changed something on the site. And it ain't me, set on CST.

[wfdmilo]

The hits keep on coming. I walked in the hall tonight and heard a pass device alarming in one of the trucks. Upon inspection, another of the wires to control the integrated pass device has failed. No one to service, no parts, OOS. All the packs are 2002 compliant....but going out of service one at a time.

....beating head on wall.

[islandfire03]

Be sure to include a copy of NIOSH report Halligan posted , in your correspondence with AFG. If they are no longer certified then they should not be in service due to potentially life threatening failures. That means you have no serviceable SCBA in my book. others might see it differently.
Yes those that bought them made a mistake. but how do any of us know who will be in business next week or year. It could happen to any manufacturer in these economic times.

You can get some really good deals on leftover Saturns right now, great cars produced by the largest auto manufacturer in the world. Until the world came tumbling down around them. Too bad you won't be able to get factory parts & service on them.

[Halligan84]

http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/npptl/usern...1_11202008.pdf

QUOTE]NIOSH will revoke the approvals of these respirators on December 31,2009. Revoked status means that the respirators in question will no longer be listed as NIOSH-approved respirators. Once revoked, respirators bearing these approval numbers may no longer be manufactured, assembled, sold, or distributed as NIOSH-approved respirators. Furthermore, they may not be used where NIOSH-approved respirators are required regardless of the current state of maintenance.[[/QUOTE]

If you read the last sentence in the passage above it would appear that your Department no longer has ANY functional SCBA as long as your state requires the use of NIOSH or NFPA SCBA.

[rands1]

Best bet, email your regional rep and explain your case. get their answer in writing and go with that. If for some reason they are wrong, you have their answer in writing.

[neiowa]

Still can't get past the computer in AFG because they are owned and in service as 2002 compliant packs, regardless of what NIOSH says. Can't report them as 97s, or pre-97s, so no way to fill out the app without lying on it, which also gets it booted.

....

Brian

True, but as thesethings are no longer NIOSH compliant the FD should have already scrapped them. Scrapped as in destroyed, not just hidden away for emergency use. This isn't same as using turnout gear that is 11years old. If fact are WRONG if they have not crushed/melted the things.

Means they then have Zero packs. Real world and FG. Perhaps then in narrative discuss why they have no SCBA.

Or to get by, perhaps it means they buy some 20yr old POS on ebay at $100ea. But pass function test and they at least comply with NIOSH.

[BC79er]

Just to address everyone at once, I agree they shouldn't be using them and they are not NIOSH or NFPA compliant. But as long as the department physically owns the equipment, in the manner they must be reported in the AFG application they are 2002 compliant SCBA because they were built to that standard. Just like gear that has a massive hole in the knees, if it's 2 year old gear then it is reported as 2 years old and not subject to replacement. Which means that gear also should be taken out of service/destroyed leaving someone with no gear.

And I'm with Roger, if the safety/legal risks are that high for continuing to use these packs then find someone on the awards list that got PPE awarded and find out if you can get their old packs so you at least have something that won't get you in a major legal bind if someone is hurt or killed. Doesn't mean you'll get a grant for replacing the used ones you pick up but at least the others will be safer to use.

[neiowa]

I don't think NFPA1951 TO gear standards is a good comparison the NIOSH/NFPA1981 SCBA standard. NFPA in most locations being strong suggestions where NIOSH is legal requirement and enforced by the thugs at OSHA. Ignoring the impact on the FF of failure of the equipment, FD will be in a much bigger world of hurt with OSHA over NIOSH violation than a potential civil trial by an ambulance chasing lawyer suing over 1951. And breathing is a bigger issue than a burn.

2yr old gear with holes can almost always be repaired. 11yr old gear that is in servicable condition is typically going to remain in service in most FD. Not scrapped. So leave it on your FG app. No foul.

An SCBA need regular maintenance (with repair parts). If you can't get parts you can maintain it and it's a boat anchor. Scrap it today.