1. #1
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    Exclamation Rural Tanker Shuttle qustion for ISO

    Has any department lowered their ISO rating with tanker shuttle lower than an 8b? We are in the works to lower ours, right now i have got ours to a 4 in the city and a 4/9 in the rural. The rating was a 6 and 10. We are trying to meet an 8b or lower. we have just constructed a sub station 6 miles from the central that holds an engine and brush. we have two 2500 gallon tanker and a 1000 gallon pumper in the central with automatic aid department that also have tankers. We have dry-hydrants in place and one turbo draft. If anyone can shine some light on this issue please write and tell me what your department would have changed to get a better ISO rating? Or if you recently had iso grade your department on tanker shuttle, we would like to know what their look for.

    Thanks George

    george_coffman@yahoo.com
    Last edited by TexasEng422Tanker; 04-30-2010 at 12:00 PM.

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    Yes

    Go to Isoslayer.com for a great ref doc. prepared by Larry _____ (I forget his last name) on the subject.

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    Quote Originally Posted by neiowa View Post
    Yes

    Go to Isoslayer.com for a great ref doc. prepared by Larry _____ (I forget his last name) on the subject.
    Larry Stephens I believe is his name. Very good reference, and the only cost is the paper and ink if you decide to print it.

    ISO also has some forms that will help you. Get a copy of the FSRS and your last rating to use as references. Also, get the documents they provide for your rural water supply system, it'll help you calculate your rural water flow capabilities prior to even calling them.

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    Has anybody else seen the changes that ISO are proposing?

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    I know they're supposed to give points for CAFS in all states. TX has had it for a while, gives 5 extra points for a top score of 105 if a CAFS truck is on the initial dispatch. Hadn't seen any others. Maybe they'll drop the part of a plasma cutter and TIC being equivalent.

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    There are HUNDREDS upon hundreds of departments that have gone WAY lower than a 8b using water shuttle. ISO slayer is a great resource, what state are you in?

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    Default ISO Slayer

    Quote Originally Posted by BC79er View Post
    I know they're supposed to give points for CAFS in all states. TX has had it for a while, gives 5 extra points for a top score of 105 if a CAFS truck is on the initial dispatch. Hadn't seen any others. Maybe they'll drop the part of a plasma cutter and TIC being equivalent.
    One thing to remember about ISO and their new rating system... If they are going to give credit for something then they will take credit away if you don't have it... ie. CAFS if you don't have it then you will lose points. you can check out our web site for information on ISO it is www.isoslayer.com Oh yeah, in Texas CAFS is only part of the 6.5 points extra credit, it also involves adopting the most current codes and buisness inspections along with a fire prevention program.

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    Quote Originally Posted by neiowa View Post
    Yes

    Go to Isoslayer.com for a great ref doc. prepared by Larry _____ (I forget his last name) on the subject.
    Right Larry Stevens. Link is

    http://isoslayer.com/Links.html Click on "ASK ISO" for the book.

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    Default Iso 7

    We lowered our rating for our rual department to a rating of 7. We only have water storage at the three stations and no hydrant system in our responce area. If want more details on what they looked for during our testing PM me
    Plongsfd17@hotmail.com

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    Go to the link posted and read the book. You'll know as much, or more, that the ISO inspector.

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    use auto aide tankers and train wth them. If you dont train with them you only get 50% of they water they bring you. Train with them and you get 100%....or so im told by my ISO consultant

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    I have a question about ISO. We are currently a 7 in town and a 9 rural. We could lower our in town rating to a 6 or maybe less without to much work
    according to all the paper work we have. My question is how much difference does it really make with insurance cost to home owners or commercial business?
    I have asked two insurance companies about this and both seem hesitant to even talk about ISO ratings. Just curious because if it does not help that much I guess why go through the work?

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    Texas FM's office has a chart on average drops, normally it's about 5% premium drop for each rating drop. Commercial there is no difference between 1 and 2 in premiums, at least here anyway. Varies by insurance company, but easiest way to find out is have someone call their agent for their house in the town and see what it does. I did it with my agent, he just kept changing numbers in his system and telling me the premium costs. Was pretty much 5% drop on each, slightly higher drop on the upper end of the scale like from 9 to 8, 8 to 7, but over the whole range was pretty close to 5% each time. Worth it in most areas to be able to talk some of the residents out of a few bucks a year in a tax or donation for putting in the work to get them the lower premiums. Drop 7 to 4 and probably will be a couple hundred bucks a year on the average home. That's the sales tactic we use most of the time, not too many can't agree with that logic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JSMV72 View Post
    I have a question about ISO. We are currently a 7 in town and a 9 rural. We could lower our in town rating to a 6 or maybe less without to much work
    according to all the paper work we have. My question is how much difference does it really make with insurance cost to home owners or commercial business?
    I have asked two insurance companies about this and both seem hesitant to even talk about ISO ratings. Just curious because if it does not help that much I guess why go through the work?
    Part of why they may be reluctant to discuss the effect of a drop is due to the fact that it's dependant on a lot of information specific to a certain policy. If you want to get a realistic measure, have people find out what kind of change they'd have on their policy.

    When we were last evaluated, we dropped from an 8 to a 5 without much work at all. From what I can figure from what I've heard (we recieved numerous "thank you" calls after we dropped it), the "average" drop has been around $100. Some have been more, some have been less. It all depends on the specific property and their policy.

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    Much of ISO is documentation of the last 3 years of everything, lots of point are lost for not having the paperwork, or doing annual tests. Those are the big ones people tend to miss that make the difference. Annual pump tests, tracking training, equipment, hydrant tests (when applicable), etc, etc. After all it's America, it's only what's on paper and YouTube that counts...

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    Quote Originally Posted by BC79er View Post
    Much of ISO is documentation of the last 3 years of everything, lots of point are lost for not having the paperwork, or doing annual tests. Those are the big ones people tend to miss that make the difference. Annual pump tests, tracking training, equipment, hydrant tests (when applicable), etc, etc. After all it's America, it's only what's on paper and YouTube that counts...
    I can certainly attest to that one. We lacked the "right" documentation on our training, hydrant testing, and pump testing. Even though we did a lot of it, it wasn't in the format they wanted so we didn't recieve any credit for it.

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    Hydrant serial numbers is one people lose out on too. Houston has Scotchlite stickers on all of their hydrants with the serial numbers, city south of here used 'permanent' markers for theirs. As long as it can be read when you walk up to it for the inspection, it counts for ISO's purposes. Reviewing preplans is another one that people miss, has to be every 6 months for everyone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JSMV72 View Post
    I have a question about ISO. We are currently a 7 in town and a 9 rural. We could lower our in town rating to a 6 or maybe less without to much work
    according to all the paper work we have. My question is how much difference does it really make with insurance cost to home owners or commercial business?
    I have asked two insurance companies about this and both seem hesitant to even talk about ISO ratings. Just curious because if it does not help that much I guess why go through the work?
    I'd guess you mean local insurance sales rep. These guys push button and collect commisions. Their quote software doesn't let them change ISO rating for a address/location. Or they would lower the rating so they can quote a lower price (get a policy sale).

    If you want to compare insurance cost you have to get quote for identical house in two or more juristictions. write a basic spec for what a new house might look like if constructed in you FD (ISO 9) have Insurance agent Smith give you a quote. Then get insurance quote for same new construction down the road in another city (ISO 5). Compare the fire portion. Might be $1-200/yr. But that's x every home x every year.

    Then do same for a new commerical business building. That is where see big savings. And typically these are the guys who are paying most of the property tax that supports our FD. And are the guys who will, if we're doing a good job, will write us that big donation check.

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    Default Water Shuttle

    We underwent an ISO eval including water shuttle around 2001. Lowered rating from 8/9 to straight 5. ISO model showed we could move ~ 575GPM to any point in our district via water shuttle. Lot of work, but worth it.

    In regards to ISO cost reduction for fire insurance: Problem #1 is that different companies give reductions at different points. For example, one company may give same rate to anyone in Class 1,2,3 or same in 4,5,6. Whereas another company may a different rate for all classes. Problem #2 is that they will 'cheat' to give the customer a lower price. For example Agent "A" uses the correct Class 7 but Agent "B" will give credit for a neighbor that is Class 4 even though you may be 10 miles from that station and they may, or may not even been an automatic aid station. Someone here can validate, but if memory serves me correctly, Texas passed legislation to outlaw this practice several years ago.

    I'll be happy to share our water shuttle submittal we made to ISO even though it is several years old now.

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    Firedude I would like to see what you sent ISO before I send them mine. If you could email me a copy to tljones3@earthlink.net that would be great.....thanks in advance!

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    Quote Originally Posted by firedude801 View Post
    ...
    In regards to ISO cost reduction for fire insurance: Problem #1 is that different companies give reductions at different points. For example, one company may give same rate to anyone in Class 1,2,3 or same in 4,5,6. Whereas another company may a different rate for all classes. Problem #2 is that they will 'cheat' to give the customer a lower price. For example Agent "A" uses the correct Class 7 but Agent "B" will give credit for a neighbor that is Class 4 even though you may be 10 miles from that station and they may, or may not even been an automatic aid station. Someone here can validate, but if memory serves me correctly, Texas passed legislation to outlaw this practice several years ago...
    I concur and that's what I've seen in our area too. There is no rhyme or reason to the numbers handed out by insurance companies. We're in a very rural area with high fire danger and one house with Insurance Company A is a "5" and the one across the street with the same amount of clearance is an "8" with Company B. It's really hard to justify spending money to improve your ISO rating when things like that are going on.

    One thing I was surprised to hear from the presenter in an AFG workshop a few weeks ago is that FEMA could care less about improving your ISO rating, so don't try and justify a new engine based on that.

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    Shouldn't be surprising, ISO isn't a standard for preparedness. ISO is based off of the NFPA standards, meaning the more compliant the more likely the department is prepared to respond, hence less of a chance of paying out high claims when something happens. It's the NFPA reasons that ISO lowers their scores that are important, not the fact that the score would go down.

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    Firedude, I would like the info as well please. Thanks

    The ISOslayer site is awesome.

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    Firedude, I would also like to see what you accomplished with ISO. I am in the process now of trying to begin to reduce our rating. Email blandfordfd@hotmail.com. I want an opinion from you all.

    How much would a 6 man cab(commercial or custom) with foam improve my rating. I currently have only 3 man cabs and only one truck has foam capability, but its induction hose from a bucket. I can only carry 10 gallons of foam on board the truck, so it doesn't go very far. Do I need a CAFS system or can an induction system give me the same benefit? I know that the ability to have 4 to 5 people respond on the first truck is a benefit. Also need a new station to put that truck in. My town is going to hate me. LOL
    Blandford Fire Department
    93 Main Street
    Blandford, Ma 01008

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    Quote Originally Posted by BlandfordFire View Post
    Firedude, I would also like to see what you accomplished with ISO. I am in the process now of trying to begin to reduce our rating. Email blandfordfd@hotmail.com. I want an opinion from you all.

    How much would a 6 man cab(commercial or custom) with foam improve my rating. I currently have only 3 man cabs and only one truck has foam capability, but its induction hose from a bucket. I can only carry 10 gallons of foam on board the truck, so it doesn't go very far. Do I need a CAFS system or can an induction system give me the same benefit? I know that the ability to have 4 to 5 people respond on the first truck is a benefit. Also need a new station to put that truck in. My town is going to hate me. LOL
    As of right now (except maybe for certain states), ISO hasn't done anything with the CAFS. It's just something they're looking at.

    However, if you look at the equipment inventory in the FSRS, you'll see a requirement for a foam eductor (can be the in-line eductors, educting nozzles, or anything else that puts foam into the stream) and 15 gallons of foam on each engine, plus another 10 gallons extra that can be stored at the station.

    Manpower is a variable, but you're right in wanting to put at least 4 guys on the scene (no necessarily first-due engine) rapidly for fire attack. When we looked at our rural rating, they wouldn't even start working on lowering us because we had issues putting a minimum of 4 on a fire for the year they looked at. That's since been resolved, but we're doing some more work before we invite them back to make sure we get all the points we can.

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