1. #1
    Forum Member
    Clutchcargo1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Whitehall, New York
    Posts
    57

    Default Cost benefit on vehicle grant

    I have a small town department with 645 population. They want a new fire engine, but even with a used engine I cant see how we they can pull it off.

    A $195,000 for a used fire engine with a population of 645 people would figure out to a cost factor of $15.12 per person over a 20 year service life.

    Thoughts?

  2. #2
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Sibley,Il.
    Posts
    106

    Wink

    allways worth a try. i pulled it of in 2005 for a new smeal/spartan 1250gpm/1000 gal with foam and 6 man cab. cost was 238,800.00 we where awarded in i think round three that year. you have to play to win just like lottery. if what you have now is old enough may get buy computer. good luck your dept pop is just like mine. we have aprox 635 people and 56 sq miles
    Last edited by chiefmeyer301; 05-06-2010 at 11:01 PM. Reason: add info
    Randy Meyer Chief S.T.F.P.D.

  3. #3
    Forum Member
    SLY4420's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    1,982

    Default

    I don't always believe that cost/benefit calculations are the final factor in award decisions.

    However, their fleet will come into play. What's the deal there?

  4. #4
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Cypress, TX
    Posts
    1,720

    Default

    We had one make Peer this year with 250 residents. Can't really go for the max price pumper of $275k, but they make trucks in the low $200s still. Not fancy but they're new and they work for smaller areas like that. Work in some larger ones too.

  5. #5
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    20 minutes North of Cooperstown, NY/ Baseball Hall of Fame
    Posts
    140

    Default

    We have 767 in 42 sq. miles. If we add in the towns all the way around us that jumps to around 20,000 in 195 sq. miles. We can't add them in on the application but they are worth mentioning in the narrative if we do get past the computer.

  6. #6
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    3,753

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by rjcont View Post
    We have 767 in 42 sq. miles. If we add in the towns all the way around us that jumps to around 20,000 in 195 sq. miles. We can't add them in on the application but they are worth mentioning in the narrative if we do get past the computer.
    Yes, it's worth mentioning in the narrative.

  7. #7
    Forum Member
    Clutchcargo1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Whitehall, New York
    Posts
    57

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SLY4420 View Post
    I don't always believe that cost/benefit calculations are the final factor in award decisions.

    However, their fleet will come into play. What's the deal there?
    Hey John,

    They have a 1982 2500 gal. tanker homemade (on a single axle chassis, 5speed w/ 2 speed rear), a 1988 Top Kick 1000/1000 pumper(first out unit, 5 speed w/ 2 speed rear), 2001 KME/International 1000 gpm/2000 gal. Engine Tanker (Auto.,$80,000 balance owed, little cabinet space), a 20 year quick attack, and a suburban.

    They want a new engine to replace both the 1988 1000/1000, and to replace the 1982 2500 gal. tanker. They want to put their rescue tools on the new engine as well.

    I am worried that they won't fund a new pumper, but may go for a later model used pumper. The questions are:

    1. Should I apply for a new or a used engine?

    2. Should I concentrate the narrative on replacing just the '82 tanker based on safety concerns we have about the unit, and replace it with a new 2000 Gallon Tanker? (which I think is a safer bet!)

    Thanks!

    Brian
    (I want to go back to Bern's Steakhouse!)

  8. #8
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Cypress, TX
    Posts
    1,720

    Default

    They already have a new pumper, remember anything over 750gpm pump is a pumper so the 2001 already replaced the other pumpers. Small town a 22 year old back up doesn't need replacement either since reserve pieces are meant to go to 30 years old. Tanker is it.

  9. #9
    Forum Member
    Clutchcargo1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Whitehall, New York
    Posts
    57

    Default

    That settles it then, a new tanker!

    Thanks Mr. Vickers.



    Brian Brooks

  10. #10
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    way upstate NY
    Posts
    107

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Clutchcargo1 View Post
    I have a small town department with 645 population. They want a new fire engine, but even with a used engine I cant see how we they can pull it off.

    A $195,000 for a used fire engine with a population of 645 people would figure out to a cost factor of $15.12 per person over a 20 year service life.

    Thoughts?
    Cost factor is only mentioned in your narrative so indeed, mention all the surrounding areas (and population) you service with Mutual Aide. If you are first call from your neighboring depts. include them.....

  11. #11
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    308

    Default

    We have a pop of 815 in 80 miles of 1st due. county pop is over 300k. We just got awarded 284K for a pumper, but we over-matched to 15% total. If you can pay more, it pays off with peer review. We have bumped the peer review border fore multiple years, and i took over this year and convinced the board to pursue a 10% over-match in addition to the normal 5%.

  12. #12
    Forum Member
    Clutchcargo1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Whitehall, New York
    Posts
    57

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CCCFire09 View Post
    If you can pay more, it pays off with peer review. We have bumped the peer review border fore multiple years, and i took over this year and convinced the board to pursue a 10% over-match in addition to the normal 5%.
    I am encouraging them to over match to increase the odds of this grant being funded. I felt that all along that they really need a new tanker. But, they kept asking for an engine, but that ain't going to happen.

    thanks again everybody!

    Brian
    Last edited by Clutchcargo1; 05-07-2010 at 02:25 PM.

  13. #13
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Posts
    46

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BC79er View Post
    They already have a new pumper, remember anything over 750gpm pump is a pumper so the 2001 already replaced the other pumpers. Small town a 22 year old back up doesn't need replacement either since reserve pieces are meant to go to 30 years old. Tanker is it.
    Bryan,
    We have 1972 pumper and 1984 pumper. We did get a new tanker 2 years ago. Should we go for a pumper ?
    Malcolm Cunningham
    Fire Chief - Hardin FPD
    Hardin, MO

  14. #14
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Cypress, TX
    Posts
    1,720

    Default

    Trying to remember your pump size on that one but yeah if it's 750gpm or less then you have 2 dirt old pumpers and a newer tanker. Not entirely enterchangeable, and fleet age is still up there.

  15. #15
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Posts
    46

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BC79er View Post
    Trying to remember your pump size on that one but yeah if it's 750gpm or less then you have 2 dirt old pumpers and a newer tanker. Not entirely enterchangeable, and fleet age is still up there.
    The 1972 is a 500gpm pumper, but still works.
    The 1985 can go to 1200gpm, but it has an open canopy. We were thinking this might help also. I think our best project for this year will be a pumper.
    Malcolm Cunningham
    Fire Chief - Hardin FPD
    Hardin, MO

  16. #16
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Cypress, TX
    Posts
    1,720

    Default

    I meant the new buggy, couldn't remember what gpm that was. Thought we did 500gpm on it. Trying to make me go way back to '07 and I think I burned those brain cells out a long time ago...

  17. #17
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Posts
    46

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BC79er View Post
    I meant the new buggy, couldn't remember what gpm that was. Thought we did 500gpm on it. Trying to make me go way back to '07 and I think I burned those brain cells out a long time ago...
    New buggy is an 08 and 500 gpm. Brain cells still working !
    Thanks
    Malcolm Cunningham
    Fire Chief - Hardin FPD
    Hardin, MO

  18. #18
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Cypress, TX
    Posts
    1,720

    Default

    Definitely a pumper then.

  19. #19
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Posts
    179

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Clutchcargo1 View Post
    I have a small town department with 645 population. They want a new fire engine, but even with a used engine I cant see how we they can pull it off.

    A $195,000 for a used fire engine with a population of 645 people would figure out to a cost factor of $15.12 per person over a 20 year service life.

    Thoughts?
    We just received a letter from the AFG explaining the reason that we didn't make the computer cut for our proposed tanker. Not having an ongoing driver training, we are having the classes with a neighboring town, reduced us slightly, but the cost factor per resident versus the larger population areas was the killer. But lightning does strike because we managed a 550 Ford, pumper/rescue in 2003, maybe it was the power of prayer. It just seems that for rural, poorer areas, it's is really a lottery chance and no more. The best narrative in the world that explains the MA assist that all towns now provide, even to our neighboring cities be cause of firefighter cuts, does not matter at all.
    Of course if you don't buy that lottery ticket or apply for the grant you will never know the joy of winning. Best of luck.
    Ed

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Junior Firefighter ~ Strobes?
    By mtfirejunior in forum Fire Explorer & Jr. Firefighting
    Replies: 152
    Last Post: 03-27-2007, 05:35 AM
  2. Help!
    By TED1435 in forum Emergency Vehicle Operations
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 05-16-2006, 12:28 AM
  3. grant for vehicle
    By sweetmikeyd in forum Federal FIRE ACT Grants & Funding
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 01-12-2005, 08:29 PM
  4. FYI in CA
    By hootman in forum Firefighters Forum
    Replies: 17
    Last Post: 09-28-2004, 12:04 AM
  5. GOD HELP THE SFFD NOW!!!!!!!
    By truck12tillerman in forum Firefighters Forum
    Replies: 73
    Last Post: 05-16-2001, 02:42 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts

Log in

Click here to log in or register