Closed Thread
Page 1 of 2 12 Last
  1. #1
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    9

    Default Mobile Radio Narrative anyone?

    Hi everyone,

    I was bummed to miss the Tampa event this year and see you all, but hear you had a great time. I'm just working on my narrative for Mobile radios to upgrade to new Narrowbanding and P25 requirements, does anyone have something that might help?

    I truly appreciate it and hope to see you at Kurt's next gathering of the minds

    Have a great day all, and I thank you in advance for any help you can offer.

    Sean

  2. #2
    Forum Member
    nmfire's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Maryland (DC Suburb)
    Posts
    5,738

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ColmaFireSean View Post
    I'm just working on my narrative for Mobile radios to upgrade to new Narrowbanding and P25 requirements, does anyone have something that might help
    AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! Another victim.

    There is no, I say again NO REQUIREMENT for P25 of any sort. Do not fall for the slick salesmen that try to pretend it is (usually beginning with the letter /\/\). No P25. No digital. No trunking. No nothing. Anyone who tells you otherwise is misinformed or LYING to make a buck.

    The ONLY MANDATE is that you upgrade/modify/reprogram all your radio equipment to operate on narrowband by Jan 1, 2013. Period. End of mandate.

    Nearly all radio equipment made in the last 10 years is already capable of narrowband operation and can simply be reprogrammed. Older equipment typically needs to be replaced. Only the Minitor V pager can actually be programmed for true narrowband however all the old ones that aren't will still work just fine. Replacing them is NOT critical, they do not transmit and the effect on reception them is minimal.

    If you post a list of your typical radio equipment here, I'm sure LV and myself would be happy to give you an idea of their capabilities so you know what you're getting yourself into.
    Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

  3. #3
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    75

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nmfire View Post
    AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! Another victim.

    There is no, I say again NO REQUIREMENT for P25 of any sort. Do not fall for the slick salesmen that try to pretend it is (usually beginning with the letter /\/\). No P25. No digital. No trunking. No nothing. Anyone who tells you otherwise is misinformed or LYING to make a buck.

    The ONLY MANDATE is that you upgrade/modify/reprogram all your radio equipment to operate on narrowband by Jan 1, 2013. Period. End of mandate.

    Nearly all radio equipment made in the last 10 years is already capable of narrowband operation and can simply be reprogrammed. Older equipment typically needs to be replaced. Only the Minitor V pager can actually be programmed for true narrowband however all the old ones that aren't will still work just fine. Replacing them is NOT critical, they do not transmit and the effect on reception them is minimal.

    If you post a list of your typical radio equipment here, I'm sure LV and myself would be happy to give you an idea of their capabilities so you know what you're getting yourself into.

    That's an accurate information, I'm a communications consultant and I have been approach with the same inquiry before, about narrowbanding and P25, the guides are very clear. It also shows that equipment must be acquire to comply to state's SCIP, Cities TIC, etc. No P25 enforcement whatsoever. Don't be a victim, there are a lot of people here, willing to help and offer assistance, so just ask.

  4. #4
    MembersZone Subscriber
    LVFD301's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    4,025

    Default

    With a caveat, everything MM says is totally correct.

    However, depending on the state you are in, you will have to comply with the state plan for interoperability as your AFG application will be forwarded to them for their technical review.

    In California - where I believe you are - those requirements are found at
    http://www.calema.ca.gov/calsiec.nsf...B?OpenDocument


    I saw no P25 requirement there also.
    Last edited by LVFD301; 05-12-2010 at 03:13 PM.

  5. #5
    MembersZone Subscriber
    dfd701's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Alabama USofA
    Posts
    321

    Default

    Blake; PRRESCUE is in Puerto Rico is he not? Our state plan here is for 700 Meg P-25. You are still not required to go to P-25 but any radio equipment purchased by grant funds has to be capable of P-25. I know the AFG guidance doesnít say P-25 but refers you to your state plan and in Alabama it must be APCO 25. If you are going be lucky enough to get an AFG award then why not go ahead and get them. You are right about the confusion on NB. The NB mandate has nothing to do with P-25 but after looking at all the options that P-25 opened up for us is amazing. If you only had a few old radios that want go 12.5 then that is a no brainer. Buy you a few radios and have the others reprogrammed and you are good to go until 2018. But on the other hand if almost all of you equipment has to be replaced and you get your department a comm. grant from AFG, then by all means go ahead and buy the P-25 even if you donít put it in service yet and when the day comes that you are mandated to go 6.25 digital then you will be set. Yes Motorola tried their best to get me to buy the MotoTRBO system knowing it doesnít meet the state plan but why am I telling you this? You are the one that taught me about it. They are still some vendors that are telling the deferent departments around that their radios want go NB when in fact they will. Just trying to ripe people off. I have 15 or so Motorola JT1000 in the field and a few HT1000 and our radio service said they all had to be replaced. All of the JTís will go 12.5 and some of the HTís if they got the D on the model number. Put them on a monitor and checked the deviation. Plan to use the JT1000 as fire ground and the inside attack team radios.

  6. #6
    Forum Member
    medic190's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Stuyvesant Falls, NY
    Posts
    331

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nmfire View Post
    AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! Another victim.

    There is no, I say again NO REQUIREMENT for P25 of any sort. Do not fall for the slick salesmen that try to pretend it is (usually beginning with the letter /\/\). No P25. No digital. No trunking. No nothing. Anyone who tells you otherwise is misinformed or LYING to make a buck.

    The ONLY MANDATE is that you upgrade/modify/reprogram all your radio equipment to operate on narrowband by Jan 1, 2013. Period. End of mandate.
    I agree, however... in lovely NYS, it has been determined that we MUST follow the direction of SAFECOM and that SAFECOM requires P25 capability. I've been around and around with DHS, FEMA and NYS folks on this one; the Feds clearly state they don't require it (only needed if your SCIP requires it) the state says they don't require it, DHS does, and only DHS can issue a waiver (but NYS won't sign off on it if it isn't P25 capable) NYS basically states "what's the problem, it's free money anyway"

    Annoys me to no avail. It doubled my VHF conventional project... Forces me to buy radios that will do something that I don't need (I argued I already have interoperability: it's called CONVENTIONAL (i.e. VCALL & VTAC)... All radios can do it... But, I'm still told if the application does not have P25 in it, the application will not be signed off... Great waste of taxpayer dollars for features that will not be used in my county. Who looses? The other agencies that I could have added into the project, the firefighters who would have better communication capability (and therefore can operate safer) and the taxpayers that are paying twice as much for the same number of radios. Winners? Radio manufacturers / vendors...

    I feel victimized....

  7. #7
    Forum Member
    nmfire's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Maryland (DC Suburb)
    Posts
    5,738

    Default

    Government operation at it's best. I wonder who in NYS Government had their pockets lined by Motorola to make that requirement?
    Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

  8. #8
    MembersZone Subscriber
    LVFD301's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    4,025

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dfd701 View Post
    Blake; PRRESCUE is in Puerto Rico is he not? Our state plan here is for 700 Meg P-25. You are still not required to go to P-25 but any radio equipment purchased by grant funds has to be capable of P-25. I know the AFG guidance doesnít say P-25 but refers you to your state plan and in Alabama it must be APCO 25. If you are going be lucky enough to get an AFG award then why not go ahead and get them. You are right about the confusion on NB. The NB mandate has nothing to do with P-25 but after looking at all the options that P-25 opened up for us is amazing. If you only had a few old radios that want go 12.5 then that is a no brainer. Buy you a few radios and have the others reprogrammed and you are good to go until 2018. But on the other hand if almost all of you equipment has to be replaced and you get your department a comm. grant from AFG, then by all means go ahead and buy the P-25 even if you donít put it in service yet and when the day comes that you are mandated to go 6.25 digital then you will be set. Yes Motorola tried their best to get me to buy the MotoTRBO system knowing it doesnít meet the state plan but why am I telling you this? You are the one that taught me about it. They are still some vendors that are telling the deferent departments around that their radios want go NB when in fact they will. Just trying to ripe people off. I have 15 or so Motorola JT1000 in the field and a few HT1000 and our radio service said they all had to be replaced. All of the JTís will go 12.5 and some of the HTís if they got the D on the model number. Put them on a monitor and checked the deviation. Plan to use the JT1000 as fire ground and the inside attack team radios.
    The OP is in California. PRRESCUE is totally correct.

    Now, I got a couple of twists for you.....

    The 2018 deadline I believe is still in flux, I don't know if we will see the 6.25 mandate
    before 2025. I hope to be long retired by then!

    And here is the big one... The P25 radios you buy today - ARE NOT 6.25 compliant. That is why P25 Phase II is coming out. Now, a lot of manufacturers are claiming that their radios will be firmware upgradable to P25 Phase II - and I throw the flag down on those guys - if we don't have the standard complete yet - how do they know their radios will be capable?

    http://www.apcointl.org/frequency/pr....html#features

    Do you have a battery analyzer for the HT1000 batteries? I may have one if you don't. I am cleaning out stuff....

  9. #9
    MembersZone Subscriber
    dfd701's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Alabama USofA
    Posts
    321

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LVFD301 View Post
    The OP is in California. PRRESCUE is totally correct.

    Now, I got a couple of twists for you.....

    The 2018 deadline I believe is still in flux, I don't know if we will see the 6.25 mandate
    before 2025. I hope to be long retired by then!

    And here is the big one... The P25 radios you buy today - ARE NOT 6.25 compliant. That is why P25 Phase II is coming out. Now, a lot of manufacturers are claiming that their radios will be firmware upgradable to P25 Phase II - and I throw the flag down on those guys - if we don't have the standard complete yet - how do they know their radios will be capable?

    http://www.apcointl.org/frequency/pr....html#features

    Do you have a battery analyzer for the HT1000 batteries? I may have one if you don't. I am cleaning out stuff....
    That is a negative Blake. The batteries for the HT and JT are the same. For those that still use the HT & JT donít buy a battery from M. They are twice the cost of other brands and donít last as long. I get about a year out of them at best. I am buying the interstate now and having good luck out of them and only $42. Compared to $97. Donít know what company that makes them. I am sure they just put the green Interstate stick on them but They work good if I can keep the FFís from using the handhelds as scanners by leaving them on in the charger 24/7 that burns them up quickly.
    You all have a good one. 701

  10. #10
    Forum Member
    islandfire03's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    2,661

    Talking

    DFD: Glad to see that you've seen the light about the motrbo and the line that some salesmen are giving the unsuspecting. Their are some unscrupulous types out there that will do anything to sell their products and take your money.

  11. #11
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Long time no Sea
    Posts
    2,253

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by islandfire03 View Post
    DFD: Glad to see that you've seen the light about the motrbo and the line that some salesmen are giving the unsuspecting. Their are some unscrupulous types out there that will do anything to sell their products and take your money.
    Your kidding? Rats, I am going with Motobro because the majority of my chiefs wanted to stay with M. I should have pushed harder for T. I am rapidly coming to the conclusion that I should have just stood on the top of the pile about everything and shoved my preferences down their throats.

    That's what happens when you try and be a good and cooperative guy surrounded by corncobbs in the sticks.

    Once again Ed. Once again!
    Last edited by jam24u; 05-14-2010 at 11:40 AM.

  12. #12
    MembersZone Subscriber
    LVFD301's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    4,025

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dfd701 View Post
    That is a negative Blake. The batteries for the HT and JT are the same. For those that still use the HT & JT donít buy a battery from M. They are twice the cost of other brands and donít last as long. I get about a year out of them at best. I am buying the interstate now and having good luck out of them and only $42. Compared to $97. Donít know what company that makes them. I am sure they just put the green Interstate stick on them but They work good if I can keep the FFís from using the handhelds as scanners by leaving them on in the charger 24/7 that burns them up quickly.
    You all have a good one. 701
    I will see if it is still kicking around here - we are boxing up all our HT1000 radios, all the accessories we have left, all the repair parts, and throwing them on Ebay.

    Just sold all our SP50's and parts yesterday, 200 bucks got the guy 18 radios!

    If I do have the analyzer its yours. Got to clean!

  13. #13
    MembersZone Subscriber
    LVFD301's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    4,025

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jam24u View Post
    Your kidding? Rats, I am going with Motobro because the majority of my chiefs wanted to stay with M. I should have pushed harder for T. I am rapidly coming to the conclusion that I should have just stood on the top of the pile about everything and shoved my preferences down their throats.

    That's what happens when you try and be a good and cooperative guy surrounded by corncobbs in the sticks.

    Once again Ed. Once again!

    Wow... I figured Iowa would nix MotoTRBO - but I guess I was wrong. How are you going to page?

  14. #14
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Long time no Sea
    Posts
    2,253

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LVFD301 View Post
    Wow... I figured Iowa would nix MotoTRBO - but I guess I was wrong. How are you going to page?
    Because I am one state to the west of Iowa. Corncobb should be the clue Blake. I got 130 pagers and am getting more of the MinitorV.

  15. #15
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Long time no Sea
    Posts
    2,253

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LVFD301 View Post
    Wow... I figured Iowa would nix MotoTRBO - but I guess I was wrong. How are you going to page?
    Because I am one state to the west of Iowa. Corncobb should be the clue Blake. I got 130 pagers and am getting more of the MinitorV.

  16. #16
    MembersZone Subscriber
    dfd701's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Alabama USofA
    Posts
    321

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LVFD301 View Post
    I will see if it is still kicking around here - we are boxing up all our HT1000 radios, all the accessories we have left, all the repair parts, and throwing them on Ebay.

    Just sold all our SP50's and parts yesterday, 200 bucks got the guy 18 radios!

    If I do have the analyzer its yours. Got to clean!
    Thanks Blake, Let me know what I need to do. Can you still ship COD? The last time I tried that they would not take cash. I asked them why they call it COD then. I am the type of person that wants people to say what they mean. Even if I donít like what they have to say. At least you know how you stand. I hate it when people beat around the bush. I guess that is why I dislike sales persons and attorneys so much. Where on eBay are the HT parts? I may drop a bid or two on them. I still have some in service. I had those things apart some many times I think I could fix them in the dark. Some of the HTís will go NB although I have been told otherwise. All of our JT1000 will go NB. They are the ones that were made in Ft. Lauderdale.
    Jim I am sorry to hear about your new equipment brand. Just joking they are nice. Hope the ones that getís them donít have them worked on but they are the ones that wanted them. They canít blame you. That is why I asked every ones opinion and read everything I could so I make the right choose for our department. It took me over three months to make my mind up to go with another company. Not saying you are buying the wrong radio just that it didnít fit our long term needs for our department. All of our older radios were M and we had very good luck with them but none of them are built like they use to be but what is.

  17. #17
    MembersZone Subscriber
    LVFD301's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    4,025

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jam24u View Post
    Because I am one state to the west of Iowa. Corncobb should be the clue Blake. I got 130 pagers and am getting more of the MinitorV.
    Got it... Nebraska. The suburb of Iowa. My mistake!

    Don't they grow corn in Iowa too?

  18. #18
    Forum Member
    islandfire03's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    2,661

    Talking

    Jim's from Nebraska: home of the prairie oysters. Where bulls run scared.

    I hope he was just jesting about what they bought with their com grant. We tried to lead him down the path of righteousness in just saying no.

  19. #19
    MembersZone Subscriber
    LVFD301's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    4,025

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dfd701 View Post
    Thanks Blake, Let me know what I need to do. Can you still ship COD? The last time I tried that they would not take cash. I asked them why they call it COD then. I am the type of person that wants people to say what they mean. Even if I donít like what they have to say. At least you know how you stand. I hate it when people beat around the bush. I guess that is why I dislike sales persons and attorneys so much. Where on eBay are the HT parts? I may drop a bid or two on them. I still have some in service. I had those things apart some many times I think I could fix them in the dark. Some of the HTís will go NB although I have been told otherwise. All of our JT1000 will go NB. They are the ones that were made in Ft. Lauderdale.
    Jim I am sorry to hear about your new equipment brand. Just joking they are nice. Hope the ones that getís them donít have them worked on but they are the ones that wanted them. They canít blame you. That is why I asked every ones opinion and read everything I could so I make the right choose for our department. It took me over three months to make my mind up to go with another company. Not saying you are buying the wrong radio just that it didnít fit our long term needs for our department. All of our older radios were M and we had very good luck with them but none of them are built like they use to be but what is.
    If you can use them, they are yours. Got a convertacom also if you want that.

    3 HT1000's, at least one is a narrowband capable. I will look around and get the parts that I have also. Send me a shipping address via PM. If you really want to - I will let you pay shipping.

  20. #20
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    75

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dfd701 View Post
    Blake; PRRESCUE is in Puerto Rico is he not? Our state plan here is for 700 Meg P-25. You are still not required to go to P-25 but any radio equipment purchased by grant funds has to be capable of P-25. I know the AFG guidance doesnít say P-25 but refers you to your state plan and in Alabama it must be APCO 25. If you are going be lucky enough to get an AFG award then why not go ahead and get them. You are right about the confusion on NB. The NB mandate has nothing to do with P-25 but after looking at all the options that P-25 opened up for us is amazing. If you only had a few old radios that want go 12.5 then that is a no brainer. Buy you a few radios and have the others reprogrammed and you are good to go until 2018. But on the other hand if almost all of you equipment has to be replaced and you get your department a comm. grant from AFG, then by all means go ahead and buy the P-25 even if you donít put it in service yet and when the day comes that you are mandated to go 6.25 digital then you will be set. Yes Motorola tried their best to get me to buy the MotoTRBO system knowing it doesnít meet the state plan but why am I telling you this? You are the one that taught me about it. They are still some vendors that are telling the deferent departments around that their radios want go NB when in fact they will. Just trying to ripe people off. I have 15 or so Motorola JT1000 in the field and a few HT1000 and our radio service said they all had to be replaced. All of the JTís will go 12.5 and some of the HTís if they got the D on the model number. Put them on a monitor and checked the deviation. Plan to use the JT1000 as fire ground and the inside attack team radios.

    Yes Sir, I'm in Puerto Rico, an extremely hot night I must say. We had a similar situation when working the AFG Narrative (Awarded Today 1.4M) because the PRFD use a Multi-net Share System with the PRPD, the big issue is that the Multi-Net system from EJ Johnson is obsolete, since the PRPD owns the system, we asked for radios to be P-25 700/800mhz because we are in 800mhz today, the PRPD will change to P-25 this year (Bid is out) and the state SCIP is for a P-25 700mhz network so we had no choice. Also remember that even the NIFOG from DHS even mentions that National Emergency Channels are ALL going to be used in Analog except for Tactical Law Enforcement, that's something that have been in debate for a long time since the Guide came out. Finally, as I consultant I must advice that sometimes a Gateway is a good cheap way to talk to your neighbor. I have seen a P25 system being patch with a Analog system (VHF) and the subscribers did not notice any difference. Economics are tought, that's a good way to start and always remember that the most advance P25 system in the world could just not work in your community, it will not matter, analog, digital, mototurbo, nextedge, youname it. Nothing works better than a well design well thought communications system tailor to your needs and budget (this systems really exist). Those were my 2 cents. I'll be more than happy to answer any further questions. Take care

  21. #21
    Forum Member
    islandfire03's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    2,661

    Talking

    Congrats PRRESCUE: that was a hard job to get done. Now the work begins.

  22. #22
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    75

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by islandfire03 View Post
    Congrats PRRESCUE: that was a hard job to get done. Now the work begins.
    Yes it was sir thanks, a year planning, a year waiting and now to work . Ed.

  23. #23
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    9

    Default

    Thanks for all the replies! I was not aware that the P25 is not a mandate, but I appreciate the heads up. I know that our radios are not capable reprogramming for Narrowbanding (based on my logistic officers info) but I will post what we have to get confirmation.

    Since I take it no one has any narratives to share, any thoughts or creative juices to help my argument in the narrative?

    Thank you again
    Sean

  24. #24
    MembersZone Subscriber
    LVFD301's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    4,025

    Default

    The biggest. FCC is mandating narrowband 1/1/2013. Wideband only will be illegal.

    Send your list of what you have now, or post it. We would be more than happy to help.

  25. #25
    MembersZone Subscriber
    dfd701's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Alabama USofA
    Posts
    321

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LVFD301 View Post
    If you can use them, they are yours. Got a convertacom also if you want that.

    3 HT1000's, at least one is a narrowband capable. I will look around and get the parts that I have also. Send me a shipping address via PM. If you really want to - I will let you pay shipping.
    Sent my PM to your mail box. I really appreciate that. I still have a lot of parts so maybe I can get another one or two working. I give the older radios to the new guys that join to see if they really want to be a volunteer FF. I find that most quit after a month or so if there heart is just not in it. If you can keep them busy and interested in it after a year then you got one that will stay with you for a long time. If you keep he, ďor sheĒ feeling like they are a needed and a part of the team then most of the time they will stay.

Closed Thread
Page 1 of 2 12 Last

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Mobile Radio in 2002 Dodge Ram POV
    By Ed Thomas in forum Technology & the Emergency Services
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 04-07-2011, 04:01 AM
  2. Every Member Having A Radio!
    By SIGNAL99COM in forum Firefighters Forum
    Replies: 93
    Last Post: 04-07-2008, 02:13 PM
  3. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 12-09-2003, 11:49 PM
  4. Communications
    By Ladder 29-51 in forum Firefighters Forum
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 10-06-2002, 08:46 PM
  5. Mobile, AL paper slams FFs
    By gunnyv in forum Firefighters Forum
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 03-25-2002, 12:10 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts

Log in

Click here to log in or register