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  1. #1
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    Default Letters From Fema good excuse

    Well FEMA sent us a letter stating why we did not recive our grant for our tanker and our station, get ready for this it was our population and our call volume, I guess we need a call volume like new york city and the population also. I really do think that is a **** poor reason but o well, anybody got a good tanker they want to sell or get ride of lol. Well gotta get off here going to start some fires so we can get our call volume up and get a fema grant lol just kidding


  2. #2
    Forum Member islandfire03's Avatar
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    There are plenty of small low call volume departments with a low population that are awarded grants every year. One of the things to keep in mind is getting your cost benefit as low as possible . I personally believe that there is a certain $$ threshold that as long as we are under for our request it will score favorably. We are 5 for 7 in afg 0 for 3 in FP&S, and 1 for 1 in SAFER applications. The apps that were not awarded were over what I imagine our threshold to be. There is zero scientific proof of this theory, just my gut instincts.

    A small low volume department can score competitively in PPE , SCBA , compressor & cascade/ fill stations and Communications projects, just as well as the big depts. Those are priority items in the AFG scoring matrix. Go with single complete projects and give it a lot of thought and document your needs, not your wants.

    When it come to Apparatus projects, it is harder to show the numbers based on low call volume as compared to the needs of a similar dept that does more calls. Remember this is a very competitive process and there are hundreds more truck apps than funding available.

    Maybe look into a smaller builder that offers lower cost trucks versus asking for a loaded out tanker from the big boys.

    I've seen bids on a simple 2000 gallon 500 gpm tanker spec that range from 175k all the way up to 250k. Add in a custom chassis and add another 45k. That pricing will put you out of the competitive range when compared to other departments with the same demographics

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    Quote Originally Posted by islandfire03 View Post
    There are plenty of small low call volume departments with a low population that are awarded grants every year. One of the things to keep in mind is getting your cost benefit as low as possible . I personally believe that there is a certain $$ threshold that as long as we are under for our request it will score favorably. We are 5 for 7 in afg 0 for 3 in FP&S, and 1 for 1 in SAFER applications. The apps that were not awarded were over what I imagine our threshold to be. There is zero scientific proof of this theory, just my gut instincts.

    A small low volume department can score competitively in PPE , SCBA , compressor & cascade/ fill stations and Communications projects, just as well as the big depts. Those are priority items in the AFG scoring matrix. Go with single complete projects and give it a lot of thought and document your needs, not your wants.

    When it come to Apparatus projects, it is harder to show the numbers based on low call volume as compared to the needs of a similar dept that does more calls. Remember this is a very competitive process and there are hundreds more truck apps than funding available.

    Maybe look into a smaller builder that offers lower cost trucks versus asking for a loaded out tanker from the big boys.

    I've seen bids on a simple 2000 gallon 500 gpm tanker spec that range from 175k all the way up to 250k. Add in a custom chassis and add another 45k. That pricing will put you out of the competitive range when compared to other departments with the same demographics
    Ed; I was told the other day that it is $5.50 per person in you JD. That is what you can ask for and be safe. I have never heard that before. Has anyone else been told that? I did the math and that didnít work out at all. They are really making it hard on the smaller departments out there but when you have the mayor of NY crying because they are not getting their share of the pie I guess they have to cut the pie in smaller pieces. I WANT G.W. BACK!!!

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    The other point is, they are gonna make it super harder from here on.

    No matter how any one wants to spin it, their goal is to weed out the small departments and for the funding to go to you know where.

    It's not just fire departments either, but they have been revealing it in speaches and more in actions. Soon they will be more comfortable just arranging it openly and then we are cooked my friends.

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    A neighboring deptartment to me just received a 190,000 grant for a new tanker. They only have a pop of about 4,000 people and a call volume of around 550 a year. So it can be done.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rands1 View Post
    A neighboring deptartment to me just received a 190,000 grant for a new tanker. They only have a pop of about 4,000 people and a call volume of around 550 a year. So it can be done.
    Thats huge numbers compared to a lot of us, we're 800 pop. and about 125 call volume with 80% of that EMS calls.

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    Found out recently that a department that was awarded (I wrote the narrative) there was an error in the population. In the application it was 24 and should have been 34,000.

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    Quote Originally Posted by onebugle View Post
    Found out recently that a department that was awarded (I wrote the narrative) there was an error in the population. In the application it was 24 and should have been 34,000.
    So, the computer is going by zipcodes then? If so it means that the '09 computer is missing some connections tied to zip codes.

    rands knows what I mean.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jam24u View Post
    So, the computer is going by zipcodes then? If so it means that the '09 computer is missing some connections tied to zip codes.

    rands knows what I mean.
    We must really blow the computer: we get our rural delivery from 4 neighboring towns and their zip code plus we have our own PO with another zip code. Five codes, one town. Only in America. That could be good/bad.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jam24u View Post
    So, the computer is going by zipcodes then? If so it means that the '09 computer is missing some connections tied to zip codes.

    rands knows what I mean.
    You have that right!

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    Quote Originally Posted by jam24u View Post
    So, the computer is going by zipcodes then? If so it means that the '09 computer is missing some connections tied to zip codes.

    rands knows what I mean.
    Zip codes that is interesting. We have seven fire departments in our zip code. Because it is the same as our department name we get all the vendors calling us. That may explain some things that I have been wondering about for years. There is this one department that gets a grant every year that comes around. For the Last two yearís they got two grants and it is just a small two bay station that covers a good bit of land but not many people in the area and hardly any fire calls They have this one grant writer that writes the grants for them and also orders & sales them the equipment. AFG finely put a stop to that little deal but now they are getting around it by claiming no involvement in the app. It has always amazed me how they can get so much equipment with so little calls. Donít get me wrong I am glad they getting this equipment because I have property in their JD. We are doing a regional grant and their last yearís grant was turned into me so I got to read the narrative. I have never seen so much BS in my life. They are putting in the app. that they cover things no were near them. Very little in the narrative is true. I have always told it like it is with AFG and if I get the grant, I get it, if I donít then I tried and I sleep well at night. I have enough to worry about without adding to it. I hope this department doesnít get audited because the chief is a good guy. He canít blame the grant writer because he signs off on the application. Like I said a good guy but begin took for a ride by the grant writer.

  12. #12
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    DFD: that is not unheard of in the grant writing world. There was a case in Mass a few years ago where two small towns were awarded a hugh R&R under SAFER. Unfortunately neither the towns or the two chiefs had any idea what the paid grantwriter was asking for until they were announced and the writer showed up with his invoice in hand.

    Caused a hugh sh*t storm. As you say hopefully they don't get audited by the inspector generals office. Could be very bad for all parties involved.

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    Quote Originally Posted by islandfire03 View Post
    DFD: that is not unheard of in the grant writing world. There was a case in Mass a few years ago where two small towns were awarded a hugh R&R under SAFER. Unfortunately neither the towns or the two chiefs had any idea what the paid grantwriter was asking for until they were announced and the writer showed up with his invoice in hand.

    Caused a hugh sh*t storm. As you say hopefully they don't get audited by the inspector generals office. Could be very bad for all parties involved.
    Hey island is that a photo of the bridge to your island? Man that should be listed as a peice of critical infrastructure and a fire hazard. Whew, look at all that wood! Man can you drive a fire truck across that thing?
    Kurt Bradley
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    Quote Originally Posted by ktb9780 View Post
    Hey island is that a photo of the bridge to your island? Man that should be listed as a peice of critical infrastructure and a fire hazard. Whew, look at all that wood! Man can you drive a fire truck across that thing?
    I live on the Island in the background. It is listed in our grant apps as critical infrastructure as well as being listed on the national historic register.
    Those are hugh blocks of Granite quarried here in Maine. It the only bridge of it's kind in the world. There was a similar bridge in Scotland prior to WW-2 but the Germans blew it up. The openings in the cross stacks are so the tide can flow through without wiping out the bridge. It's a little over a thousand feet long and connects two of our Islands together.

    It's undergoing an 11 million $ overhaul right now, which is really interesting as it only cost 65 k to build it originally in 1926. The granite blocks are not fastened to each other, just held in place by gravity, with a concrete roadbed on top.

    When you come up this way I'll be glad to take you on a tour by land and by boat..

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    Quote Originally Posted by islandfire03 View Post
    I live on the Island in the background. It is listed in our grant apps as critical infrastructure as well as being listed on the national historic register.
    Those are hugh blocks of Granite quarried here in Maine. It the only bridge of it's kind in the world. There was a similar bridge in Scotland prior to WW-2 but the Germans blew it up. The openings in the cross stacks are so the tide can flow through without wiping out the bridge. It's a little over a thousand feet long and connects two of our Islands together.

    It's undergoing an 11 million $ overhaul right now, which is really interesting as it only cost 65 k to build it originally in 1926. The granite blocks are not fastened to each other, just held in place by gravity, with a concrete roadbed on top.

    When you come up this way I'll be glad to take you on a tour by land and by boat..
    You got a deal there guy!
    Kurt Bradley
    Public Safety Grants Consultant

    "Never Trade Skill for Luck"

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    Quote Originally Posted by islandfire03 View Post
    DFD: that is not unheard of in the grant writing world. There was a case in Mass a few years ago where two small towns were awarded a hugh R&R under SAFER. Unfortunately neither the towns or the two chiefs had any idea what the paid grantwriter was asking for until they were announced and the writer showed up with his invoice in hand.

    Caused a hugh sh*t storm. As you say hopefully they don't get audited by the inspector generals office. Could be very bad for all parties involved.
    Where's the photo? I want to google earth your location anyway Ed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jam24u View Post
    Where's the photo? I want to google earth your location anyway Ed.
    Yea me too. By looking at it I would have guessed it was made of wood. We use to have a lot of wooden covered bridges in the area but the drunks burned them down. They made it past General Sherman but not the drunk kids that didnít have anything else to do on the weekend.

  18. #18
    Forum Member islandfire03's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dfd701 View Post
    Yea me too. By looking at it I would have guessed it was made of wood. We use to have a lot of wooden covered bridges in the area but the drunks burned them down. They made it past General Sherman but not the drunk kids that didn’t have anything else to do on the weekend.
    Google Bailey Island Maine. The bridge is known as the Cribstone bridge, it connects Orr's Island to Bailey Island on route 24 / known locally as Harpswell Islands Road.
    If you go to google street level you can take a ride across it with the panorama camera.

    We're just off the coast from Brunswick Maine

    I have plenty of close up photos that show the detail of the construction, If I get a chance later I'll e-mail you some. :-}
    Last edited by islandfire03; 05-17-2010 at 06:34 PM.

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    Default Grant Funding

    My FD applies for funding from different sources (Volunteer Fire Assistance, etc.).

    When we list our fire call volume, I state that we have a fire prevention/safety program. This is to inform the grant organization that our low fire volume, may be from having the fire prevention/safety program in place.

    I know that fire call volumes are one justification in receiving funding or not, but it does not seem fair that a FD that has a fire prevention/safety programs, is penalized for having a low fire call volume.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dfd701 View Post
    Ed; I was told the other day that it is $5.50 per person in you JD. That is what you can ask for and be safe. I have never heard that before. Has anyone else been told that? I did the math and that didnít work out at all. They are really making it hard on the smaller departments out there but when you have the mayor of NY crying because they are not getting their share of the pie I guess they have to cut the pie in smaller pieces. I WANT G.W. BACK!!!
    How are you getting the $5.50 per person?

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