Economic Hardships and Your Department.

[VincentEng2]

What issues or hardships is your department facing, due to the current state of the US Economy?

[neiowa]

No change.

[Jasper 45]

Consolidation of seven battalions to five. Permanent closure of an engine and truck company, with three additional companies 'browned out" on a daily basis.
The reduction of 180 line personnel.

[DeputyChiefGonzo]

We've lost one position through attrition, and we may be closing a station on a rotating basis if the OT account runs out before the end of this fiscal year...

[FireCapt1951retired]

Since "05".... 7 permanent company closings plus an average of 10 company closings plus per shift, loss of 355 positions. In the city's infinate wisdom, they hired 30 a little over a year ago. These were other workers from city departments outside of fire and no test, physical agility or oral interview. The youngest was I believe 37 maybe 36 and the oldest 49. 14 quit while in the academy, 3 others quit during their probabtionary period and 4 are already off duty injured for a lengthy period. It was a complete waste of tight money and they want to do this again rather than hire some younguns.

[mrpita]

We had 5 engines and 2 ladders close last January, reducing us to 56 engines/27 ladders - a loss of 148 positions. Last week they announced that 57 vacant positions would go unfilled and were also cut. There is an almost constant pall of rumors about brownouts and/or more cuts. This just addresses the personnel cuts.

There is no apparatus budget; to say our fleet is aging is an understatement. 1/3 to 1/2 our pumper fleet is 14-15 years old. Then when you consider how often we are in back-up/reserve pieces, it's not uncommon to make a box with the newest piece (non-chief's car) just 17 years old...

[DeputyChiefGonzo]

Since "05".... 7 permanent company closings plus an average of 10 company closings plus per shift, loss of 355 positions. In the city's infinate wisdom, they hired 30 a little over a year ago. These were other workers from city departments outside of fire and no test, physical agility or oral interview. The youngest was I believe 37 maybe 36 and the oldest 49. 14 quit while in the academy, 3 others quit during their probabtionary period and 4 are already off duty injured for a lengthy period. It was a complete waste of tight money and they want to do this again rather than hire some younguns.

Un-fracking-believable...

[TNFF319]

Un-fracking-believable...

Sadly, it really isn't.

[jeeves1]

Un-fracking-believable...

I am 35 and can probably run rings around most younger than me so dont write off 35 and overs.dont think you can categorize people based on their age.

[GTRider245]

I am 35 and can probably run rings around most younger than me so dont write off 35 and overs.dont think you can categorize people based on their age.

Age was the least of my issues with the hiring practice that was described. And they got the outcome they should have expected.

Right now, we havnt cut any positions or companies. We are fortunate.

[DeputyChiefGonzo]

I am 35 and can probably run rings around most younger than me so dont write off 35 and overs.dont think you can categorize people based on their age.

Brother.. I'm 56, still kicking @$$ and keeping up with the "kids" quite nicely...

I was commenting on the no test, physical agility or oral interview aspect of the Detroit hiring process.

[jeeves1]

ye.i agree there.what a farce!

[FireCapt1951retired]

I am 35 and can probably run rings around most younger than me so dont write off 35 and overs.dont think you can categorize people based on their age.

The fact is that these individuals were all overweight and didn't even have to qualify in the 1 1/2 mile run. Thier age and physical fitness is a problem here. The average age of the DFD is now around 45-46. The ones that actually stayed can't take the workload. When you have 21 out of thirthy that couldn't hold up with that workload, except for 2 of them, it means your taking individuals who are unfit for firefighting. I can understand your statement about age. I kept in great physical shape and lasted until I was 54 but the injuries and workload eventually caught up with me, After 3 surgeries (back, shoulder and cervical and a set of bad knees) I knew it was time to go. Believe it or not, the workload in Detroit is mind blowing. Even individuals who are in really great shape are getting their bodies beat up bad. The firefighters are doing more and more work with less and less manpower. No matter how great you think your physical attributes are, this type of workload will take its toll eventually. It took 33+ years to wear me down but it did just that but the workload seems to just keep growing. I swear I would have thought the entire city has burned down but the number of structures and tech area responses has continued to rise.

[FireCapt1951retired]

Brother.. I'm 56, still kicking @$$ and keeping up with the "kids" quite nicely...

I was commenting on the no test, physical agility or oral interview aspect of the Detroit hiring process.

Gonz,

Those things have always been a mainstay of the hiring process up until more than a few years ago. Detroit hasn't even given a test since "03". There is still a list but the city refuses to hire from it. There is an underlying reason for this that I won't go into, you guess what that is.

They just took about 10 more and 1 is 52 and not exactly a lightweight or even in the greatest shape. All these individuals will keep their city seniority but thier police and fire pension benefits will be much, much lower, which in turn usually causes them to take a duty disability, which in turn causes overall costs to increase. If and more than likely when they layoff (council just cut the fire budget today by another 9%) it will be the younger ones that get scraped, the injury rates will rise and the city will pay even more for the medical care they recieve from the injuries and more than likely the duty disabilities rising.

To be honest, this may sound inappropriate or crude but if I'm hiring someone and investing a lot of money in them, for the majority (because you're not going to get 100% because of the injuries and disabilities) I want at least 25 years in return. The long term costs of hiring individuals over 38 and especially in their mid 40's and early 50's isn't fiscally sound with what seems to be a never ending high workload. The present ones that were in their mid 30's are doing all right and the department will just barely get their 25 years out of them because we have a maximum age limit of 60, then your retired.

[ThNozzleman]

Brother.. I'm 56, still kicking @$$ and keeping up with the "kids" quite nicely...

Yeah...but how long does it take to charge the Hoveround back up?

[LaFireEducator]

Budget increased 500K since 2004.

3 new service trucks and a tractor for the 18-wheel tanker purchased last year.

Tanker being refurbed and a new Chief's vehicle being bought this year. Training ground also being expanded and new Central Station planned for 2015-16.

3 new shift firefighters being hired later this year. Everything else was needed.

Department next to us has gone from about 370K 4 years ago to 1.7M this year due to gas drilling. They are replacing their whole fleet, adding staffing and rebuilding a station.

[Weruj1]

we are luckily for now unchanged.

[DeputyChiefGonzo]

Yeah...but how long does it take to charge the Hoveround back up?

I have a spare....

[VincentEng2]

I have a spare....

Is there a glove box full of Ensure, and the shoping basket full of depends?

Random attack on old guys,

Sorry.

[DeputyChiefGonzo]

Bob and VinE2.... let me assure you...

No Hoveround, no Ensure, no Viagra needed, no Depends, no meds whatsoever... and I still have all my hair... and it is the same color as it was when I was a kid (with a couple of grays here and there!)

You should look as good as I do when you hit my age!

PS: its not a random attack on old guys.... it is good old fashioned ball busting!
PSS: I'm not an old guy.... Harve Woods is an old guy!