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  1. #26
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    110 gpm through a 1 inch line... thats insane, you would be working the hell out of the pump.

    What do yall think the discharge would be, 350 psi???
    Bring enough hose.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BULL321 View Post
    What are you talking about? 50 bar of pressure? liters per min? 45mm?
    Do What? Somebody translate please.
    Ha HA! 1 bar = around 3.3 psi i think.45mm is I think inch and 3/4 roughly.For you guys its a science, for us its more of put the "wet stuff on the hot stuff", if u need more water on the fire put another line in there.cant really compare like someone said, building construction has alot to do with it
    Last edited by jeeves1; 05-24-2010 at 09:38 AM. Reason: i meant to put 13.3psi but hey, who cares.it works for us i n the UK!

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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    If I remember right a Bar of Pressure is 14.7psi so 50 Bar would be around 735 psi.

    45mm....25.4mm equals an inch so 45mm is roughly 1 3/4 inches

    125ltrs/min.....33.9 ounces in a liter so 125ltrs/min is roughly 33 gpm's

    I have been told since I was 9 years old metrics were coming so I actually paid attention in math class. By the way 9 years old is 42 years ago and I am still waiting!!
    Yeah 1 Bar = ~14.7 psi (thank you google)

    So you are fighting fire with 750 psi? I always was told that Euro-firefighters use high pressure, but to an American that sounds insane. And 33 gpm? How does that work.

    In the US we calculate fire flow to combat BTU's. If I remember right it is one gallon of water absorbs a couple hundred BTU's. That's why we flow 200+ gallons when interior. I am very curious how European tactics work flowing less gpm at a higher pressure? Please, you have my full attention.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FiremanLyman View Post
    Yeah 1 Bar = ~14.7 psi (thank you google)

    So you are fighting fire with 750 psi? I always was told that Euro-firefighters use high pressure, but to an American that sounds insane. And 33 gpm? How does that work.

    In the US we calculate fire flow to combat BTU's. If I remember right it is one gallon of water absorbs a couple hundred BTU's. That's why we flow 200+ gallons when interior. I am very curious how European tactics work flowing less gpm at a higher pressure? Please, you have my full attention.
    It works, trust me.I its beyond room and contents then 2 hosereels go in.Maybe,just MAYBE a 45mm to back up.But usualy 95% of domestic property fires require only 2 hosereels to get the job done.Notice i said, "room".Thats the clue there.. your domestic properties as far as I have seen here I mainly plaster boad divided homes.We use brick and mortar.Fires are still as hot, imagine a big brick oven!So anyway, back to the job in hand, it works thats all you need to know.We dont get scientfic about it too much.Keep it simple, its not a difficult job, some just choose to make it more than it is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jeeves1 View Post
    Ha HA! 1 bar = around 3.3 psi i think.45mm is I think inch and 3/4 roughly.For you guys its a science, for us its more of put the "wet stuff on the hot stuff", if u need more water on the fire put another line in there.cant really compare like someone said, building construction has alot to do with it
    3.3 or 13.3 are both wrong...14.7 was close but the exact number is 14.5038.

    Wow...way to denegrate your fire service by turning yourselves into non-thinking water sprayers.
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    Jeeves1: What you are describing is almost exactly what we were doing in the 1950's. We got a heavy rescue in 1959 with a 5 stage centrifugal pump. You throttled up until the "Ross Relief" valve opened at 800 psi (54 bar) then went interior with a 1" booster line with an Elkhart 30 gpm nozzle. If you do the math you will find that a 100 psi nozzle at 30 gpm has an equivalent opening of 0.316" and by pushing this nozzle at 532 psi (36 bar) it will deliver about 70 gpm. Now 70 gpm through 200 ft. of 1" booster has a friction loss of about 270 psi. Thus the engine pressure of 800 psi. We used this rescue as first due on all structure fires until the mid 1970's when we got an engine with a 750 gal tank and 1 1/2" Mattydale lays. I must agree with your statement that this type of delivery works for room and contents, and it works very well. I also need to agree with most of the US posters when they would like to have another hunderd gpm available when going after a little more involved structures over here in light weight construction.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    3.3 or 13.3 are both wrong...14.7 was close but the exact number is 14.5038.

    Wow...way to denegrate your fire service by turning yourselves into non-thinking water sprayers.
    like i said.You are making this job way more complicated than it is.I think you will find that most modern day branch techniques, fire behaviour training has stemmed frrom Europe, in particular Sweden and the UK.In fact, we had many fire department senior officers from the U.S come to our department for fire behaviour training.Like is said also, I dont get fixated too much with numbers and figures.I am going on actual working fire experience in domestic properties.2x hosereels work and put out the fire very quickly and effeciently.I am not saying there are not calculations to be made, but htese are mostly made by senior officers at large scale incidents wen working out flow rates for water supplies etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    3.3 or 13.3 are both wrong...14.7 was close but the exact number is 14.5038.

    Wow...way to denegrate your fire service by turning yourselves into non-thinking water sprayers.
    also i note you are rural.I am from an inner city department.Again, different building construction.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jeeves1 View Post
    also i note you are rural.I am from an inner city department.Again, different building construction.
    Actually, where I live and volunteer is quite rural, population 717. Where I work as a career firefighter is a different story though. It is a bizarre mixture of urban housing, manufacturing, industry, commercial, downtown style store fronts, a huge mall, multi-story residences, medical complexes, elderly housing in all the varieties you can imagine, CBRF's, apartment buildings, condos, warehouses, and quiet little residential neighborhoods, all biscetted by a major highway.

    The constant in my mind? Always try to bring more than you think you will need for water to fight the fire. The worst that happens when I use my 200 gpm stream is I shut off the nozzle a whole heck of a lot faster then you do with your twin 30 gpm streams. That is the key, highly skilled and trained firefighters on the nozzle knowing when to flow, and when to shut off, the nozzle.

    Different places, different techniques, as long as we win and all go home it is all good.
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    the city i worked in was the 2nd most populated and had the highest diverse risks in the world.Like i said, our techniques are proven, and they work, period.Where do you think all the U.S fire simulator trainers in the world are made? Europe.End of Story.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jeeves1 View Post
    the city i worked in was the 2nd most populated and had the highest diverse risks in the world.Like i said, our techniques are proven, and they work, period.Where do you think all the U.S fire simulator trainers in the world are made? Europe.End of Story.
    Do you mean flashover simulators? That I might almost be convinced to believe. Well, except for the fact that the city FD that shares the training grounds owned by the tech college I teach for BUILT THEIR OWN. Thank you very much. I know for a fact that a live fire training building manufacturer is within 30 miles of my home. Not quite sure what you were trying to prove with this anyways.

    Wow, you seem like a guy with little man complex. You threw out the rural comment at me and I clarified my situation. You had to come back with you work for the 2nd most populated city, with the highest diverse risks in the world...WOW!!! Who are you trying to convince? Me or yourself?

    If your tactics work for you FINE, is that clear enough? I really don't care how you fight fire there. I work in an environment of lightweight construction with trusses, and TGI's, and the extra GPM offered by a 1 3/4" line (my career FD) or a 2 inch line (my volly FD) can often be the difference between life and death. Our tactics are proven and they work for us.

    I guess in your desperate need to prove you are better you missed this line on my last post:

    Different places, different techniques, as long as we win and all go home it is all good.
    You really need to calm down a bit...It seems like many of you guys from across the pond are a little bit over sensitive
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    i dont need to prove anything to you.The facts speak for it all.Just ask your college where they got the idea of fire behaviour training simulators from... the first one was built in Europe at Moreton in Marsh, Glocestshire.UK Their college has instructors come to learn from us from all over the world.You have a big chip on your shoulder,typical.If you open your eyes you will see that there is always more than one way to skin a cat

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    Jeeves, calm down. I don't care who developed what technology. We just have diffrent ways of doing it, I am just trying to get an insite into how your methods work. For the most part, American fire service does a direct attack, using smoothbore tip or straight stream out of an adjustable tip, putting the water stream directly on the seat of the fire.

    Just guessing, with the lower volume, you use an indirect attack method, banking the stream off the ceiling or such, generating steam. Unless the high pressure allows you to penetrate the seat of the fire with the lower volume. So please educate me, with the higher pressure, lower volume, how you make fire attack?

    Thanks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jeeves1 View Post
    i dont need to prove anything to you.The facts speak for it all.Just ask your college where they got the idea of fire behaviour training simulators from... the first one was built in Europe at Moreton in Marsh, Glocestshire.UK Their college has instructors come to learn from us from all over the world.You have a big chip on your shoulder,typical.If you open your eyes you will see that there is always more than one way to skin a cat

    It really is this simple:

    Different places, different techniques, as long as we win and all go home it is all good.
    Do I use pulsing into the overhead on occasion? Yes, I do. More often though I will go for the base of the fire with a straight stream or smoothbore. Is your way of using high pressure wrong? Not if it works. Is my way of higher flows and bigger handlines wrong? Not if it works.

    Now calm down, head down to the Pub, and quaff a few pints.
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  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeeves1 View Post
    the city i worked in was the 2nd most populated and had the highest diverse risks in the world.Like i said, our techniques are proven, and they work, period.Where do you think all the U.S fire simulator trainers in the world are made? Europe.End of Story.
    You are from Sweden?
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jeeves1 View Post
    i dont need to prove anything to you.The facts speak for it all.Just ask your college where they got the idea of fire behaviour training simulators from... the first one was built in Europe at Moreton in Marsh, Glocestshire.UK Their college has instructors come to learn from us from all over the world.You have a big chip on your shoulder,typical.If you open your eyes you will see that there is always more than one way to skin a cat
    Take it easy brother, it not like he made fun of your silly looking helmets.
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    Wow lets see who's tallywacker is bigger, after we make fun of thier funny helmets and little ladder trucks. They can make fun of 200 years of tradition uninpeaded by progress andtower ladder trucks that are so big they have their own zip code. Oh btw How much can your tower ladder lift on the bed section..... could you lift a car with your big TL oh no american ladders are not rated for that Metz 100ftladder can lift 8,000 lbs on the bed section. However they dont have hose bed and cant lay in to a fire. but they do have a great hydrant system where they have hydrants in manholes in between.I have lived in The USA most of my life except when i was stationed overseas. And they are advatages to both systems a fire truck over there is looked on as a work truck where we like to combine function with beauty, chrome and paint, polished and buffed.
    The rosenbaur np pumps are not your Hale or Waterous pum[p they have their good and bad. Your department has to decide hate to throw Patroitism into this Np pumps employ German and Austrian workers.And the money you spend on a Rosenbaur goes to Germany. The money you spend on a KME, Pierce, Segrave with a Haleor darly pump the moeny stays here

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    Quote Originally Posted by rescueraver View Post
    Wow lets see who's tallywacker is bigger, after we make fun of thier funny helmets and little ladder trucks. They can make fun of 200 years of tradition uninpeaded by progress andtower ladder trucks that are so big they have their own zip code. Oh btw How much can your tower ladder lift on the bed section..... could you lift a car with your big TL oh no american ladders are not rated for that Metz 100ftladder can lift 8,000 lbs on the bed section. However they dont have hose bed and cant lay in to a fire. but they do have a great hydrant system where they have hydrants in manholes in between.I have lived in The USA most of my life except when i was stationed overseas. And they are advatages to both systems a fire truck over there is looked on as a work truck where we like to combine function with beauty, chrome and paint, polished and buffed.
    The rosenbaur np pumps are not your Hale or Waterous pum[p they have their good and bad. Your department has to decide hate to throw Patroitism into this Np pumps employ German and Austrian workers.And the money you spend on a Rosenbaur goes to Germany. The money you spend on a KME, Pierce, Segrave with a Haleor darly pump the moeny stays here
    Seriously...Get a good night's sleep. This is one of the most incredibly garbled messages I have seen here in a long while. Slow down and try again. Maybe next time it will make some kind of sense.

    By the way, I still think holds true. "Different places, different techniques, as long as we win and all go home it is all good."
    Last edited by FyredUp; 05-26-2010 at 03:26 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rescueraver View Post
    Wow lets see who's tallywacker is bigger, after we make fun of thier funny helmets and little ladder trucks. They can make fun of 200 years of tradition uninpeaded by progress andtower ladder trucks that are so big they have their own zip code. Oh btw How much can your tower ladder lift on the bed section..... could you lift a car with your big TL oh no american ladders are not rated for that Metz 100ftladder can lift 8,000 lbs on the bed section. However they dont have hose bed and cant lay in to a fire. but they do have a great hydrant system where they have hydrants in manholes in between.I have lived in The USA most of my life except when i was stationed overseas. And they are advatages to both systems a fire truck over there is looked on as a work truck where we like to combine function with beauty, chrome and paint, polished and buffed.
    The rosenbaur np pumps are not your Hale or Waterous pum[p they have their good and bad. Your department has to decide hate to throw Patroitism into this Np pumps employ German and Austrian workers.And the money you spend on a Rosenbaur goes to Germany. The money you spend on a KME, Pierce, Segrave with a Haleor darly pump the moeny stays here
    Can we get that in English next time?
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeeves1 View Post
    Yes very true, I worked career for the 2nd biggest fire department behind FDNY in Europe.

    Since when is FDNY in Europe?!? [sarcasm alert] So are you saying second largest in world or Europe? Also what's with all this attitude in all of your other posts? Most of the responses to your posts that I've read are people genuinely interested in how you method works for you. But as usual, Americans are evil, and we stole every great idea we ever had from Europe or Canada. Whatever man. You need to calm yourself down. Trust me, I lost my temper on here once, it didn't bode well, just made me look like an @$$. I also had to come back and apologize as I had mis-read a post and lashed out at one poster unreasonably. It's hard to do, but sometimes a man has to suck it up, put down his pride, and let things go. Just chill man. Also, notice I didn't use any bold letters or exclamation points here, that means I'm being calm and talking to you, not dissing you. Just giving some advice.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rescueraver View Post
    Wow lets see who's tallywacker is bigger, after we make fun of thier funny helmets and little ladder trucks. They can make fun of 200 years of tradition uninpeaded by progress andtower ladder trucks that are so big they have their own zip code. Oh btw How much can your tower ladder lift on the bed section..... could you lift a car with your big TL oh no american ladders are not rated for that Metz 100ftladder can lift 8,000 lbs on the bed section.
    Geez, glad you made that point, man, I can't tell you how many times I've been so frustrated because I couldn't lift a car with either of the ladder trucks at my department. Why in the world would i need to? To lift a car off of the victim, wow, how safe is that? I'll stick to air bags and cribbing thanks.

    However they dont have hose bed and cant lay in to a fire.
    Now, I can tell you I've had to catch a hydrant many a time for our tower, let's see, fire apparatus, equals fire operations, equals hose, who would've thought it. Some places like New York, and other big sities don't need hose on their trucks, as they almost always have an engine in their house that responds with them to a fire, if not, then one close by. My dept., yeah, we have an engine at station one with tower-1, but not at station 3 with ladder three, hence we have a quint there. WEll, tower-1 is a quint, but anyway. Our trucks have hose, because they might be first due sometimes. Anyway, enough of my rant.

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    When I buy a ladder truck, I'm buying just that. I really don't care if it can lift infinity tons on the bed section as long as its able to safely handle the loads necessary for a fire service ladder.

    But my trucks are bigger so when I pull into the firehouse, it knows I'm inside. I bet your firehouse asks if you're in yet. Maybe my big, zip code needing fire truck can come across the pond and please your firehouse.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nameless View Post
    When I buy a ladder truck, I'm buying just that. I really don't care if it can lift infinity tons on the bed section as long as its able to safely handle the loads necessary for a fire service ladder.

    But my trucks are bigger so when I pull into the firehouse, it knows I'm inside. I bet your firehouse asks if you're in yet. Maybe my big, zip code needing fire truck can come across the pond and please your firehouse.
    HAHA, wish I had thought of that response, pretty funny. I love our big zip code needing 100+ ladder and tower trucks. (I think they're jealous over there)

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    Why can't we just delete a reply when we realize we screwed up? Can someone tell me that?
    Last edited by simpleguy68; 06-24-2010 at 06:19 PM. Reason: Realized that one too many Shiner Bocks had severely affected my ability to do simple f'ing math!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by rescueraver View Post
    Wow lets see who's tallywacker is bigger...
    Mine is... want me to prove it? Send your wife over... j/k. Now go 'ave a beer... ;-)
    Last edited by simpleguy68; 06-24-2010 at 06:20 PM. Reason: No reason really, just wanted to point out my previous post about one too many Shiner Bocks.

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